Re: Re: Help!!!
Oops, shame on me, I did it, change ONLY L601 and 602 from the new lists... the only problem is to find back the OEM L601/602 in the hundres small things removed from the PCB... I check it right now!!
6h5c said:
Oops, shame on me, I did it, change ONLY L601 and 602 from the new lists... the only problem is to find back the OEM L601/602 in the hundres small things removed from the PCB... I check it right now!!
Quick question for folks who've changed the filter to Bessel: what sonic benefits did you get? (from the constant group-delay)
Also, I have a 67SE not a 63, and it doesn't have the inductor L601 and L602. This appears to form a notch filter (@fs)with C605 and C606. The 67 only has the 1000pf cap.... so would changing this for a lower value (470pF?) have the same effect in a 67 as in a 63? Confused... and why no notch in the 67
Whilst I'm here - to those that replaces the 7812/7912, what did you use? I'm looking at three options:
a) Audiocom superregs - cheap on eBay
b) Tentlabs shunts - a bit more expensive and would have to be +15v/-15v but there is still a 5v overhead so no probs. My post-reg caps are rated at 16v and my op-amps can take it (LM6171+OPA627 on BD).
c) Use LM317/337 on veroboard - like those 'Raygulators' - I've done it this way in the past.
Opinions please!
To MALEFODA:
What value of output series resistor are you using? In my opinion it should be 50-100ohm.... I would not go lower than 50.
Also (I'm in a minority here but humour me) I found resistors/inductors in the op-amps supply lines to severely limit bass dynamics. I used ferrite-beaded jumpers. You might like to try bypassing them with wire under the board just to see.... easy to try and quick to remove. I'm not sure your detuning of the notch filter would cause this - especially as the 67 doesn't even have it.
When you listen to the headphone out you are listening to a buffered version of the filter section. (I'm in the minority here too but I prefer it with HDAM in.) The result probably depends on the interconnects and pre-amp in use though (and the op-amp chosen) - your op-amps output stage is driving these and its own feedback loop. If the h/p is good and the RCA is bad then it sounds like your op-amp is struggling for current.
Also, I have a 67SE not a 63, and it doesn't have the inductor L601 and L602. This appears to form a notch filter (@fs)with C605 and C606. The 67 only has the 1000pf cap.... so would changing this for a lower value (470pF?) have the same effect in a 67 as in a 63? Confused... and why no notch in the 67
Whilst I'm here - to those that replaces the 7812/7912, what did you use? I'm looking at three options:
a) Audiocom superregs - cheap on eBay
b) Tentlabs shunts - a bit more expensive and would have to be +15v/-15v but there is still a 5v overhead so no probs. My post-reg caps are rated at 16v and my op-amps can take it (LM6171+OPA627 on BD).
c) Use LM317/337 on veroboard - like those 'Raygulators' - I've done it this way in the past.
Opinions please!
To MALEFODA:
What value of output series resistor are you using? In my opinion it should be 50-100ohm.... I would not go lower than 50.
Also (I'm in a minority here but humour me) I found resistors/inductors in the op-amps supply lines to severely limit bass dynamics. I used ferrite-beaded jumpers. You might like to try bypassing them with wire under the board just to see.... easy to try and quick to remove. I'm not sure your detuning of the notch filter would cause this - especially as the 67 doesn't even have it.
When you listen to the headphone out you are listening to a buffered version of the filter section. (I'm in the minority here too but I prefer it with HDAM in.) The result probably depends on the interconnects and pre-amp in use though (and the op-amp chosen) - your op-amps output stage is driving these and its own feedback loop. If the h/p is good and the RCA is bad then it sounds like your op-amp is struggling for current.
Re: Re: Re: Help!!!
Indeed the 67 has no notch filter. You can jumper L601/602, and if C605/606 are 470p and the resistors 12k1 you also have the Bessel filter slope. Dunno why Marantz didn't put it in the 67. Probaly cost reductions? The sonic benefits of the Bessel slope are more refined highs IMO. I found it a subtle difference, but audible.
Ray
Malefoda said:
Glenn2 said:
Indeed the 67 has no notch filter. You can jumper L601/602, and if C605/606 are 470p and the resistors 12k1 you also have the Bessel filter slope. Dunno why Marantz didn't put it in the 67. Probaly cost reductions? The sonic benefits of the Bessel slope are more refined highs IMO. I found it a subtle difference, but audible.
Ray
Ray,
I learned a lot but from this tread but on the other hand this is generating questions aswell.
What is your opion about R661,662 these are 100K, do the have to stay in after HDAM removal and what is the function of these resistors?
I want to do the change to the besselfilter, can i use 12K instead of 12K1, or is this changing the slope of the filter to much?
How is the sound of your player with the discrete FET output after some weeks of burning in, are happy with it?
Peter
I learned a lot but from this tread but on the other hand this is generating questions aswell.
What is your opion about R661,662 these are 100K, do the have to stay in after HDAM removal and what is the function of these resistors?
I want to do the change to the besselfilter, can i use 12K instead of 12K1, or is this changing the slope of the filter to much?
How is the sound of your player with the discrete FET output after some weeks of burning in, are happy with it?
Peter
Re: Re: Help!!!
Thanks for support, even if I'm quite nervous (in fact very...) about this is only a CDP but my CDP!
L601/602 are back, and the lost bass problem is still here. When I mean the HPhones is better I means they still sounds the same upgraded sound, but the RCA seems to have lost all the gain in bass (seems the more low frequency the less sound), and maybe even worst! So I don't need a week to say I don't like it 😉
So I have no choice, will go backward maybe 2 steps by 2. Will tell you then.
I'm exhausted, my nerves can't support more. I've built a lovely card catle, but the last card made the castle crash... 🙁
And for Glenn, I'll check what I've done on PS section, 4 MKT caps, one 100n PPS under C813 and 4 diodes. Maybe a mistake here? Others such as inductances or the output resistors are unchanged since last upgrades.
Thanks all for all these things to check at!
6h5c said:
Thanks for support, even if I'm quite nervous (in fact very...) about this is only a CDP but my CDP!
L601/602 are back, and the lost bass problem is still here. When I mean the HPhones is better I means they still sounds the same upgraded sound, but the RCA seems to have lost all the gain in bass (seems the more low frequency the less sound), and maybe even worst! So I don't need a week to say I don't like it 😉
So I have no choice, will go backward maybe 2 steps by 2. Will tell you then.
I'm exhausted, my nerves can't support more. I've built a lovely card catle, but the last card made the castle crash... 🙁
And for Glenn, I'll check what I've done on PS section, 4 MKT caps, one 100n PPS under C813 and 4 diodes. Maybe a mistake here? Others such as inductances or the output resistors are unchanged since last upgrades.
Thanks all for all these things to check at!
Peter Venema said:
Hi Peter,
R661 and 662 provide a DC current path for the output capacitors to charge, just like R655/656. Normally there is an amplifier or something similar connected to the output, and these caps will charge through the volume pot at power-up. These resistors prevent a loud pop just in case nothing is connected and you insert the RCA plugs after power-up. Since the output caps are removed during most mods, these resistors could be taken out theoretically. But to keep the opamp's output from floating when nothing is connected, it's wise to have some form of resistance to ground there and leave them in. But you can take out R655/656 (10k), one resistor is sufficient.
As for the filter: 12k is fine, I used that particular value only because it's a standard value for the Welwyns I used. I like the sound of the FET stage very much, it's very open and detailed. The sound seems to flow out of the speakers more easily. I think it has a lot to do with the lack of overall feedback. I also have a 67 that's equipped with opamps. It also sounds very good, but different. It's not a matter of which one is better, but more a matter of taste. I don't think I will ever sell one of them, but if I had to choose I'd keep the one with the FETs. Maybe after I try the LM4562 I will think differently 😀.
Regards,
Ray
Re: Re: Re: Help!!!
I know, just jerking your chain 😀...
I've had these moments, believe me.
You may not need a week, but the electronics may need it! Give it some time, and evaluate after a good night sleep. There's nothing that can't be undone. Also be aware that the upgraded sound may be more towards natural reproduction, but you may not like it like that; you have to get used to it. Try and do a comparison in a good high-end system. Is that bass really gone, or is it there but just more defined? Or maybe something happened in the mid-high region and the balance has shifted towards that region.
Ray
Malefoda said:
I know, just jerking your chain 😀...
I've had these moments, believe me.
You may not need a week, but the electronics may need it! Give it some time, and evaluate after a good night sleep. There's nothing that can't be undone. Also be aware that the upgraded sound may be more towards natural reproduction, but you may not like it like that; you have to get used to it. Try and do a comparison in a good high-end system. Is that bass really gone, or is it there but just more defined? Or maybe something happened in the mid-high region and the balance has shifted towards that region.
Ray
Thanks Ray,
As always you give clear an quick answers😀 😀, its much apriciated !!!!
In my rush towards a better sound of the CD67 i removed these resistors, but when my BC's are in the house i will put them back!
The 5V regulator for the DAC is sheduled for tonight and i'm very
curious what it will bring.
I also have been reading about replacement of the 12V regulators to the HDAM area with is now open for parts after removal of all the not needed parts here.
Did you have any experience with this?
The rest of my almost DIY system is a Passive preamp, my recently build Dual mono UCD400 main amplifier, Kenwood 5020 tuner (is going to be modified) and The pied piper speakers (modified).
Peter
As always you give clear an quick answers😀 😀, its much apriciated !!!!
In my rush towards a better sound of the CD67 i removed these resistors, but when my BC's are in the house i will put them back!
The 5V regulator for the DAC is sheduled for tonight and i'm very
curious what it will bring.
I also have been reading about replacement of the 12V regulators to the HDAM area with is now open for parts after removal of all the not needed parts here.
Did you have any experience with this?
The rest of my almost DIY system is a Passive preamp, my recently build Dual mono UCD400 main amplifier, Kenwood 5020 tuner (is going to be modified) and The pied piper speakers (modified).
Peter
Peter Venema said:
You're welcome Peter, thanks! Keep us updated on the results, it's always interesting to hear other peoples experiences.
Which regulators do you mean, Q801/802? I use LM317/337 there at the moment, the well-known 'Raygulators' 😀. I think that's a good, cheap solution as a drop-in replacement for the standard regs. A separate PSU will bring even more improvement. I have two Tent shunt regulators sitting here that I still have to try, but I haven't had any time for that. Too busy with my SA8400...
Nice speakers by the way. I visited their shop once in Haarlem.
Ray
Yes Q801 \802 are the ones.
I have the passive version of this speaker, Gerbrand van Veen has invited me several times to come but i'm afread that if i hear his active version i have to buy these and this is taking to much
of my wallet
😡 after the UCD amplifier project.
Wich was by the way the reason that i had to take another mod round on my CD67 to take full advantage of this amplfier.
I like what i see inside this SA8200 thats for sure but knowing you
for a couple of thousend sentences in this tread, i'm sure you wil kick the hell out of this machine😉
Peter
I have the passive version of this speaker, Gerbrand van Veen has invited me several times to come but i'm afread that if i hear his active version i have to buy these and this is taking to much
of my wallet
😡 after the UCD amplifier project.Wich was by the way the reason that i had to take another mod round on my CD67 to take full advantage of this amplfier.
I like what i see inside this SA8200 thats for sure but knowing you
for a couple of thousend sentences in this tread, i'm sure you wil kick the hell out of this machine😉
Peter
Peter Venema said:Yes Q801 \802 are the ones.
I have the passive version of this speaker, Gerbrand van Veen has invited me several times to come but i'm afread that if i hear his active version i have to buy these and this is taking to much
of my wallet
Wich was by the way the reason that i had to take another mod round on my CD67 to take full advantage of this amplfier.
I like what i see inside this SA8200 thats for sure but knowing you
for a couple of thousend sentences in this tread, i'm sure you wil kick the hell out of this machine😉
Peter
Yeah, this audio-virus takes up plenty of financial resources 😀. But it's better than buying a €10.000 machine off the shelves and then brag how good it sounds. At least we created something ourselves 😎. I'm confident my set kicks most expensive so called high-end stuff's butt. I thought about taking my player under my arm to one of the hifi-shows and see if I can get some salesman crazy enough to hook it up in a demo-room 😀.
Ray
(busy kicking...)
6h5c said:
Are they +/-15v or are you going to fiddle them to +/-12V?
I'd love to hear how you get on as I'm thinking of trying this myself. The Audiocom ones are cheaper on eBay though. The Tent X02 and XO supply has transformed (no pun intented) my CD67SE so I have faith in Guido.
What I love about this thread is that whatever I search on in this website, this thread always pops up somewhere in the results. I think you guys have mentioned (and inserted into a CD63) every device known to mankind😀
Evening all.
I decided to get my external psu back into the workshop this evening as there was excessive noise on the cd's output. I added a star earth point and wired it to house earth. This reduced the noise to an acceptable level (more to do soon) but had the happy side effect of doubling the perceived improvement of the mod. I had to trawl through 5 or 6 CDs revelling in the awesome bass and beguiling, detailed sound.
The braided wire is connected to the earth pin of the IEC socket. You can see I added ferrites to the earth leads to minimise any HF noise polluting the earth (who knows!?)
I decided to get my external psu back into the workshop this evening as there was excessive noise on the cd's output. I added a star earth point and wired it to house earth. This reduced the noise to an acceptable level (more to do soon) but had the happy side effect of doubling the perceived improvement of the mod. I had to trawl through 5 or 6 CDs revelling in the awesome bass and beguiling, detailed sound.
The braided wire is connected to the earth pin of the IEC socket. You can see I added ferrites to the earth leads to minimise any HF noise polluting the earth (who knows!?)
Attachments
Spurred on by not breaking anything, but quite the opposite, I decided to add another transformer (15v@1a x2 toroid) and psu (schottkies, 15,000uF Rubycon, 1uF polyester). This feeds my 5v reg board (was fed from 20v in the player). (The 5v board has 1000uF Black Gate and then 33uF Pana FC after each reg (analogue dac/decoder, digital dac/decoder, and other 5v (err, what is it??) same as before)
I also popped in a red neon I had lying around, to warn me that it's on, as there was no other indication (apart from a quiet hummm close-up).
I've only had a quick listen since this mod but listening to Dire Straits, Dire Straits the result is surely a good imrovement. Mark Knopfler's voice has never had this kind of fully develpoped character before. Each part is easy to follow and well rounded. Yet again, upgrading power supplies in this thing proves to work!
(I can hear a high pitched whine now, which probably wasn't there at switch on - perhaps something is marginally stable or something??)
Simon
I also popped in a red neon I had lying around, to warn me that it's on, as there was no other indication (apart from a quiet hummm close-up).
I've only had a quick listen since this mod but listening to Dire Straits, Dire Straits the result is surely a good imrovement. Mark Knopfler's voice has never had this kind of fully develpoped character before. Each part is easy to follow and well rounded. Yet again, upgrading power supplies in this thing proves to work!
(I can hear a high pitched whine now, which probably wasn't there at switch on - perhaps something is marginally stable or something??)
Simon
Attachments
Glenn2 said:
After some SMD surgery they are now +/-12V 😀. I'm going to put some three-pin sockets on the PCB so I can swap regulators easily. I'll let you know what I find, but it may take some time
.Simon,
Nice work, seems the separate PSU's really pays off. You still have room in there for a lot more trannys
. I really should look into that star-earth-point thing....Ray
6h5c said:
I too have thought of doing this. Make some expensive gear look over priced. I am thinking of contacting an audio magazine and seeing if they fancy doing an article on modded players.
Brent
Good stuff mate. Only one thing to pull you up on
NEON = noisy 🙁 I would change it for an LED.
Brent
rowemeister said:
Good stuff mate. Only one thing to pull you up on
I would change it for an LED.
Brent
Yeh I did wonder but it's far easier to use a neon and it shows that mains is in there. An LED would only be lit if the power had gone through a tx etc. (unless I did a dodgy connection straight through a resistor and diode)..
I am toying with the idea of having an LED (purple!) for each power rail
SimontY said:
I am toying with the idea of having an LED (purple!) for each power rail
You big gay
Looks good mate, and is pushing me towards building a spearate PSU for my 5V reg board (when my cdp is running again 🙄 )
adfinni said:
You big gay
Looks good mate, and is pushing me towards building a spearate PSU for my 5V reg board (when my cdp is running again 🙄 )
LOL
I said that on msn to him LMAO
Brent