DragonzTeeth
I had a look at your first link
http://www.bellmicro.com/flatpanel/pages/linecard.asp
The Dicon range of single board controllers looks very interesting. Input is only VGA no digital input but still they have 16 on board settings for different panels and output TTL and LVDS for a large range of panel resolutions and panel sizes.
Any chance you could get a rough idea of one off price.
The Dicon controllers that take in VGA and VIdeo seem a bit limited because you need factory support to match different panels.
This brings up an interesting point.
Modern LCD panels have a identification string.
The controller says what are you ? and the panel says "I am a 14.1 inch TFT panel with 1024 x 768 resolution here are my driver specifications" and the controller adjusts itself to drive the LCD.
Plug and play
Clever stuff but you need to be using LCD's that support that feature. Since this thread is still ? mainly about using cheap laptop LCD's I dont think they will have plug and play.
Some may be wondering where this thread is going but its very simple. Morien originally opened the thread asking where to get cheap LCD for his projector. I am looking under every rock to find a dirt cheap way to drive cheap laptop LCD's. Along the way various other options pop up which some of you will say hey thats just what I want. Thats good. Multipurpose investigation.
So far for my money the SpectraH ARV-468 looks the best find. Its a pity its $256 US. At $100 it would be absolutely ideal because it takes in analogue and digital and outputs TTL and LVDS. You could then buy a really good LCD.
Anyway I have asked if there is any way they can drop their price for us poor struggling enthusiasts. Somehow I doubt they will but worth a shot.
I had a look at your first link
http://www.bellmicro.com/flatpanel/pages/linecard.asp
The Dicon range of single board controllers looks very interesting. Input is only VGA no digital input but still they have 16 on board settings for different panels and output TTL and LVDS for a large range of panel resolutions and panel sizes.
Any chance you could get a rough idea of one off price.
The Dicon controllers that take in VGA and VIdeo seem a bit limited because you need factory support to match different panels.
This brings up an interesting point.
Modern LCD panels have a identification string.
The controller says what are you ? and the panel says "I am a 14.1 inch TFT panel with 1024 x 768 resolution here are my driver specifications" and the controller adjusts itself to drive the LCD.
Plug and play
Clever stuff but you need to be using LCD's that support that feature. Since this thread is still ? mainly about using cheap laptop LCD's I dont think they will have plug and play.
Some may be wondering where this thread is going but its very simple. Morien originally opened the thread asking where to get cheap LCD for his projector. I am looking under every rock to find a dirt cheap way to drive cheap laptop LCD's. Along the way various other options pop up which some of you will say hey thats just what I want. Thats good. Multipurpose investigation.
So far for my money the SpectraH ARV-468 looks the best find. Its a pity its $256 US. At $100 it would be absolutely ideal because it takes in analogue and digital and outputs TTL and LVDS. You could then buy a really good LCD.
Anyway I have asked if there is any way they can drop their price for us poor struggling enthusiasts. Somehow I doubt they will but worth a shot.
another few clicks of the keys...
Hi folks: here's some specs I gathered from the S3 folks
http://www.s3graphics.com/features.html
This is the graphics processor on the S270M. Now I'll admit...it's not nearly as good as my Rad8500. It wont "game" like the ATI but will it " DVD "? Read the data. Just how good is good enough?
Hmm I think I'll start a thread if there isnt one allready " DIY DLP "
zardoz
Hi folks: here's some specs I gathered from the S3 folks
http://www.s3graphics.com/features.html
This is the graphics processor on the S270M. Now I'll admit...it's not nearly as good as my Rad8500. It wont "game" like the ATI but will it " DVD "? Read the data. Just how good is good enough?
Hmm I think I'll start a thread if there isnt one allready " DIY DLP "
zardoz
lemming
Hi I like the idea allready....if the folks at VIA will help us out and give up some secrets on LCD BIOS'S as are used in their board it will be an excellant low cost sollution ( I can get this board from my local supplier at cost ). Keep us advised please?
zardoz
Hi I like the idea allready....if the folks at VIA will help us out and give up some secrets on LCD BIOS'S as are used in their board it will be an excellant low cost sollution ( I can get this board from my local supplier at cost ). Keep us advised please?
zardoz
lemming said:
Re: Re: Re: I'm confused (typical)
Zardoz- I was trying to save you money and keep you from making a mistake. It's possible at the time of the post that they hadn't shipped it yet and you could cancel the order. What's wrong with trying to help you not waste money? I did read your entire post and I didn't see anything in there that would indicate why you need a PCI controller instead of the converter board. And when I said that it was no good for projections, I was speaking to everyone. $140 is pretty cheap, but I personally think the LDS270 is not a good investment for 99% of the people here. If you think I'm being negative then I'm sorry. I'm just trying to help everyone here.
DragonzTeeth- Remp posted the prices and the shipping charges. Wouldn't that mean he's contacted them and found out you can buy individual units? Remp, correct me if I'm wrong. I actually called them years ago and had trouble communicating with them because only one guy spoke English and and not very well.
Remp- I would have loved to tell you all about the TTL signals you asked about, but I don't know anything about that. My best guess is that the TTL signals don't have anything to do with how many bits of color there are. They split up all the information (color as well as everything else) in different digital signals that only the reciever can decode and translate into color signals, etc. Some have more pins because it allows faster transmission. But that's just a guess, I really don't know. I do know that LVDS hard drives also use "TTL signals", and they don't have anything to do w/ color specific signals. I was curious why you wanted to know- I was not trying to be an ******* about it. If I knew the relavence, or what you were trying to figure out in general, I might be able to help you. I understand your grateful for Zardoz actually commiting money to this, but I have spent a lot of money myself and I don't want anyone else wasting their's.
3 years ago I spent a countless amount of hours trying to find an LVDS kit that worked for my panel. I ended up buying a kit from Trident. (http://www.tridentdisplays.co.uk/products/colour_lcd/kitscards.shtml)
These guys will sell to end users BTW. Anyways, look at the picture at the very bottom of the page. That's the kit I bought. It coust 250 pounds (which was over $300 plus expensive int'l shipping). Anyways, it wasn't compatible w/ the PCI card I bought from Earth, so after many days trying to find a bare 44-pin connecter (luckicly found them at an electronics hardware store), I spent many hours w/ a soldering iron making a custom cable to match the pinouts. You have no idea what a pain it was, and I'm very good w/ an iron. Out of the 36 or so wires, I got two mixed up. One of them was a power lead, and it fried my kit. Returning it was not an option, and exchanging it would have meant $80 to ship both ways.
I see tons of people in this forum asking if they can get their panels to work without knowing jack about it. Then I see a bunch of regulars telling them their "expert" advice, which is usually "You can't". I can't stand that crap. Then there are you guys who are saying, "We're gonna figure out how". That's awesome and you guys have the right attitude about that, but figuring out how with no prior knowledge is a serious pain in the ***. I know because I've done it and all I've been doing here is trying to save you guys some unnessecery work and money. I have been down this road before and I have a lot of experience w/ this stuff you guys don't. I'm not trying to sound high and mighty about it, but it is a fact. Check out this MP3car thread if you don't believe me.
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1870&highlight=cheap+color+screens
There was a 6" VGA touchscreen monitor built by a company who made wearable computers for the military. That company went under, and an company (MPJA) was selling them for $30 a pop. It came w/ a 68 pin connector and nobody knew what the hell it was. Skim through the thread and you'll see that after many months I got the pinouts for the thing, learned all about LVDS systems. I contacted Advantech, Silicon Image, Trident, Sage, Spectrah, Quadrangle, Averlogic, Earth, National, TI, ELO Touch, Dynapro, and quite a few others. You read the story about the trident kit, and you saw what happened. I eventually ended up ripping it out and using a regular flat panel controller from Earth. But at least I got it to work. Touchscreen too (thanks to Dynapro). Nobody else got theirs working till almost a year later. I STILL get emails about it occasionally.
The only reason I'm saying this stuff is because I've been getting this attitude from you guys like I don't know what I'm talking about. I initially said in this thread that no laptop made up until 1999 had LVDS systems built in. I was not wrong about that. I said I doubted that newer ones did, but I only doubted it, I didn't say it couldn't be true. I'm still conviced that the LVDS reciever is a seperate unit on these panels that can be removed, but w/ the Spectrah products it doesn't matter. Sorry I didn't post the Spectrah link first (I have known about them for a long time) but I'm new to this forum.
zardoz said:
Zardoz- I was trying to save you money and keep you from making a mistake. It's possible at the time of the post that they hadn't shipped it yet and you could cancel the order. What's wrong with trying to help you not waste money? I did read your entire post and I didn't see anything in there that would indicate why you need a PCI controller instead of the converter board. And when I said that it was no good for projections, I was speaking to everyone. $140 is pretty cheap, but I personally think the LDS270 is not a good investment for 99% of the people here. If you think I'm being negative then I'm sorry. I'm just trying to help everyone here.
DragonzTeeth- Remp posted the prices and the shipping charges. Wouldn't that mean he's contacted them and found out you can buy individual units? Remp, correct me if I'm wrong. I actually called them years ago and had trouble communicating with them because only one guy spoke English and and not very well.
Remp- I would have loved to tell you all about the TTL signals you asked about, but I don't know anything about that. My best guess is that the TTL signals don't have anything to do with how many bits of color there are. They split up all the information (color as well as everything else) in different digital signals that only the reciever can decode and translate into color signals, etc. Some have more pins because it allows faster transmission. But that's just a guess, I really don't know. I do know that LVDS hard drives also use "TTL signals", and they don't have anything to do w/ color specific signals. I was curious why you wanted to know- I was not trying to be an ******* about it. If I knew the relavence, or what you were trying to figure out in general, I might be able to help you. I understand your grateful for Zardoz actually commiting money to this, but I have spent a lot of money myself and I don't want anyone else wasting their's.
3 years ago I spent a countless amount of hours trying to find an LVDS kit that worked for my panel. I ended up buying a kit from Trident. (http://www.tridentdisplays.co.uk/products/colour_lcd/kitscards.shtml)
These guys will sell to end users BTW. Anyways, look at the picture at the very bottom of the page. That's the kit I bought. It coust 250 pounds (which was over $300 plus expensive int'l shipping). Anyways, it wasn't compatible w/ the PCI card I bought from Earth, so after many days trying to find a bare 44-pin connecter (luckicly found them at an electronics hardware store), I spent many hours w/ a soldering iron making a custom cable to match the pinouts. You have no idea what a pain it was, and I'm very good w/ an iron. Out of the 36 or so wires, I got two mixed up. One of them was a power lead, and it fried my kit. Returning it was not an option, and exchanging it would have meant $80 to ship both ways.
I see tons of people in this forum asking if they can get their panels to work without knowing jack about it. Then I see a bunch of regulars telling them their "expert" advice, which is usually "You can't". I can't stand that crap. Then there are you guys who are saying, "We're gonna figure out how". That's awesome and you guys have the right attitude about that, but figuring out how with no prior knowledge is a serious pain in the ***. I know because I've done it and all I've been doing here is trying to save you guys some unnessecery work and money. I have been down this road before and I have a lot of experience w/ this stuff you guys don't. I'm not trying to sound high and mighty about it, but it is a fact. Check out this MP3car thread if you don't believe me.
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1870&highlight=cheap+color+screens
There was a 6" VGA touchscreen monitor built by a company who made wearable computers for the military. That company went under, and an company (MPJA) was selling them for $30 a pop. It came w/ a 68 pin connector and nobody knew what the hell it was. Skim through the thread and you'll see that after many months I got the pinouts for the thing, learned all about LVDS systems. I contacted Advantech, Silicon Image, Trident, Sage, Spectrah, Quadrangle, Averlogic, Earth, National, TI, ELO Touch, Dynapro, and quite a few others. You read the story about the trident kit, and you saw what happened. I eventually ended up ripping it out and using a regular flat panel controller from Earth. But at least I got it to work. Touchscreen too (thanks to Dynapro). Nobody else got theirs working till almost a year later. I STILL get emails about it occasionally.
The only reason I'm saying this stuff is because I've been getting this attitude from you guys like I don't know what I'm talking about. I initially said in this thread that no laptop made up until 1999 had LVDS systems built in. I was not wrong about that. I said I doubted that newer ones did, but I only doubted it, I didn't say it couldn't be true. I'm still conviced that the LVDS reciever is a seperate unit on these panels that can be removed, but w/ the Spectrah products it doesn't matter. Sorry I didn't post the Spectrah link first (I have known about them for a long time) but I'm new to this forum.
remp said:
I agree that the ARV is the best option. It gives so many choices. Having both DVI and VGA inputs is priceless. However. $256 is still too much for any panel that's less than 1280x1024 res, because desktop panels cost no more than that. But for panels that are SXGA and up, the AVR is worth every penny.
Have you asked them the price of the DRV-200? I've been wondering that for a while. If that thing is cheap (like under $100), it would no doubt be the best option for people with old school non-LVDS panels. And of course, I still don't know if a newer panel's LVDS reciever can be removed. Can it?
Lifter
Your negative posts are taking up far too much valuable space and time and energy to read them.
If you knew about the Spectrah link why did you not post it. Would have saved an awful lot of time.
Then there are you guys who are saying, "We're gonna figure out how". That's awesome and you guys have the right attitude about that, but figuring out how with no prior knowledge is a serious pain in the ***.
As far as not being qualified I have 6 electronics certificates sitting in the drawer. The highest being advanced trade in Electronics including semiconductors and television systems.
Took me 5 years hard work to get it and I also have 20 years hands on experience in electronics.
Just shows you dont know what you are talking about.
Find out for sure before saying things like that.
You my friend are a thread breaker. You have such a negative attitude that people don't even want to bother anymore. I have tried to be pleasant and polite to you but now I am sick of your negative attitude. Why dont you go somewhere else and let us get on with it.
Your negative posts are taking up far too much valuable space and time and energy to read them.
If you knew about the Spectrah link why did you not post it. Would have saved an awful lot of time.
Then there are you guys who are saying, "We're gonna figure out how". That's awesome and you guys have the right attitude about that, but figuring out how with no prior knowledge is a serious pain in the ***.
As far as not being qualified I have 6 electronics certificates sitting in the drawer. The highest being advanced trade in Electronics including semiconductors and television systems.
Took me 5 years hard work to get it and I also have 20 years hands on experience in electronics.
Just shows you dont know what you are talking about.
Find out for sure before saying things like that.
You my friend are a thread breaker. You have such a negative attitude that people don't even want to bother anymore. I have tried to be pleasant and polite to you but now I am sick of your negative attitude. Why dont you go somewhere else and let us get on with it.
I was trying to be polite and explain that I am not trying to be negative- just relaying my prior experience. Then you give me **** about my attitude again. I don't get it. I said nobody on this board had prior knowledge about hooking up panels. WTF is wrong with that? It's true. I said it because I was trying to justify why I'm trying to help. But you got 6 degrees so I guess you don't need it. I'll send you pics when I'm done w/ my project.
Recap on driving cheap laptop screens or similar
Yander26 has shown it is possible to get a 14.1 inch Monitor and make it suitable for projection. VGA drive. Hook it straight up to your computer. Resolution 1024 x 768. See his post page 8
Price $220 (with rebate)
Rajkumar has shown you can buy a 10.5 inch Monitor complete with video card for $119. 95. See his post page 8
PCI video card. 800 x 600 native resolution. Works at 1024 x 768 in virtual mode. 16 million colours. Plug and play with WindowsSE and above.
Full motion video - not known. Email supplier.
Zardoz has found and is buying a Spectrah LDS270M video card that has 20 pin LVDS outlet. Approximate one off price $150 USD. Plus freight from Taiwan. We are hoping he can drive a laptop LCD screen.
http://www.spectrah.com/LD-S270.htm
Remp has found a Spectrah ARV-468 card that takes in Digital, VGA and analogue and drives quite a few models of LCD. Has LVDS and TTL. Price $256 USD. See page 9
Price seems a bit steep.
http://www.spectrah.com/arv-462.htm
The link leads to the ARV-462 - ARV -468 page.
See item 4
Lemming has posted a controller card that looks like it has quite a number of input/outputs. More details coming. See page 7
dragonzteeth has posted 2 links regarding controllers.
This one from his top link,
http://www.dicon.co.kr/english/product/controller.asp
shows 5 Dicon controllers that take in VGA only but can drive a large range of panels. Panel settings is by 16 switches. TTL output and LVDS in either 6 bit (2 million colours) or 8 bit (16 million colours) See his post page 10.
No prices as yet.
Yander26 has shown it is possible to get a 14.1 inch Monitor and make it suitable for projection. VGA drive. Hook it straight up to your computer. Resolution 1024 x 768. See his post page 8
Price $220 (with rebate)
Rajkumar has shown you can buy a 10.5 inch Monitor complete with video card for $119. 95. See his post page 8
PCI video card. 800 x 600 native resolution. Works at 1024 x 768 in virtual mode. 16 million colours. Plug and play with WindowsSE and above.
Full motion video - not known. Email supplier.
Zardoz has found and is buying a Spectrah LDS270M video card that has 20 pin LVDS outlet. Approximate one off price $150 USD. Plus freight from Taiwan. We are hoping he can drive a laptop LCD screen.
http://www.spectrah.com/LD-S270.htm
Remp has found a Spectrah ARV-468 card that takes in Digital, VGA and analogue and drives quite a few models of LCD. Has LVDS and TTL. Price $256 USD. See page 9
Price seems a bit steep.
http://www.spectrah.com/arv-462.htm
The link leads to the ARV-462 - ARV -468 page.
See item 4
Lemming has posted a controller card that looks like it has quite a number of input/outputs. More details coming. See page 7
dragonzteeth has posted 2 links regarding controllers.
This one from his top link,
http://www.dicon.co.kr/english/product/controller.asp
shows 5 Dicon controllers that take in VGA only but can drive a large range of panels. Panel settings is by 16 switches. TTL output and LVDS in either 6 bit (2 million colours) or 8 bit (16 million colours) See his post page 10.
No prices as yet.
cross referance
The motherload of laptop screen cross referance charts...
http://www.laptops-r-us.net/Oldweb/crosref.htm
zardoz
The motherload of laptop screen cross referance charts...
http://www.laptops-r-us.net/Oldweb/crosref.htm
zardoz
Remp,
still waiting to hear from BellMicro contact... since they sell to resellers I will try to get pricing
but also see if they will give me a l ist of resellers we could get them from. Gave them my
home and cell number to get me anytime. I will ask about the Dicon you mentioned.
Lifter,
as for you, WTF is your problem.
Sorry, I may be not as perfect as you but did not see the prices that Remp put up.
Most of my posts have stated "Hope this helps" , that's all I am trying to do.
Most places like Spectrah will not sell to individuals or small businesses.
For example, before mentioning Digital View in the previous link, I called them and got
an A$$ of a SysEng stating he does not have time for these "one offs" telling me to go deal
with a reseller. Hence, BellMicro, which has Spectrah, Digital View, Dicon, etc....
Your type of comments are one reason why so many will just read these threads instead
of joining in, because they don't want to deal with turdZ like you flaming EVERY
little thing they type!
And please, don't try to stomp over every little line we post -
Quote" DragonzTeeth- Remp posted the prices and the shipping charges.
Wouldn't that mean he's contacted them and found out you can buy individual units?"
Don't know , maybe he contacted a reseller in the states. I'd have to go and re-dig up
his info, or maybe, ask him politely where his contact is. Remp is more entitled to rip on me
than you if he's concerned about it, which I really doubt.
Its not that I contest your knowledge of systems at all, I have an Electronics degree
but have been doing Systems Admin work, troubleshooting, research and development
and support for almost 20 years but I sure as hell don't know it all. Nor will I
punch down every little thing someone types.
Sorry everyone for this. If you feel the links I put up are not
productive to this forum or thread let me know and I will not intrude anymore.
I enjoy the thought process going through this thread and reading the ideas individuals
are throwing in the idea bin!
Thanks,
and hope everyone has a safe and Happy Thanksgiving!
DragonzTeeth
still waiting to hear from BellMicro contact... since they sell to resellers I will try to get pricing
but also see if they will give me a l ist of resellers we could get them from. Gave them my
home and cell number to get me anytime. I will ask about the Dicon you mentioned.
Lifter,
as for you, WTF is your problem.
Sorry, I may be not as perfect as you but did not see the prices that Remp put up.
Most of my posts have stated "Hope this helps" , that's all I am trying to do.
Most places like Spectrah will not sell to individuals or small businesses.
For example, before mentioning Digital View in the previous link, I called them and got
an A$$ of a SysEng stating he does not have time for these "one offs" telling me to go deal
with a reseller. Hence, BellMicro, which has Spectrah, Digital View, Dicon, etc....
Your type of comments are one reason why so many will just read these threads instead
of joining in, because they don't want to deal with turdZ like you flaming EVERY
little thing they type!
And please, don't try to stomp over every little line we post -
Quote" DragonzTeeth- Remp posted the prices and the shipping charges.
Wouldn't that mean he's contacted them and found out you can buy individual units?"
Don't know , maybe he contacted a reseller in the states. I'd have to go and re-dig up
his info, or maybe, ask him politely where his contact is. Remp is more entitled to rip on me
than you if he's concerned about it, which I really doubt.
Its not that I contest your knowledge of systems at all, I have an Electronics degree
but have been doing Systems Admin work, troubleshooting, research and development
and support for almost 20 years but I sure as hell don't know it all. Nor will I
punch down every little thing someone types.
Sorry everyone for this. If you feel the links I put up are not
productive to this forum or thread let me know and I will not intrude anymore.
I enjoy the thought process going through this thread and reading the ideas individuals
are throwing in the idea bin!
Thanks,
and hope everyone has a safe and Happy Thanksgiving!
DragonzTeeth
DragonzTeeth said:
I am at work, so I don't know the exact dimensions, I know they are around 12" square for the projector area, the LCD was a little over 11" H and 8 or 9" V I will measure them tonight and post them for you. As for the brightness I don't have a way of measuring this, it is much brighter than I was expecting, viewable with my room lights on, although a bit washed out. I really wasn't expecting much from this setup as my overhead is an old 3M projector with a halogen bulb. My real plan is to remove some of the optics from this projector and build it into my own box with my own bulb. I bought my monitor from Best Buy as opposed to CompUSA because CompUSA charges a 15% restocking fee as soon as you open the box, with Best Buy I figured if I couldn't use it, I could put it together again and return it.
Now that I have had time to experiment with this setup a bit and project it on a proper screen, I have run into an optical problem. I am finding that the top of the image is much darker than the bottom. I would think optically top and bottom should be the same, but I guess not. I am sure it has nothing to do with the extended area of the overhead as the image only extends in the horizontal which looks fine. My guess is it has to do with the mirrors and polarization path length differences, but I am not sure yet. I did find an adjustment for the centering of the light but it made no difference. The overhead looks uniform with out the LCD on it, and the LCD looks uniform when I look at it sitting on the overhead. I will experiment with it more tonight, if anyone has experienced this problem before, any input would be appreciated.
Hey yander26,
thanks alot for the feedback... I understand about the Best Buy purchase. Ours around here do not have the
14in anymore at any of the stores but CompUSA still does.
Sorry , can't help you with the optics part of it, wish I could right now. Probably won't be able to get
OHP and LCD til after Xmas , you know how that holiday shopping gets in the way...
Thanks again for the feedback, appreciate it.
Dragonzteeth
thanks alot for the feedback... I understand about the Best Buy purchase. Ours around here do not have the
14in anymore at any of the stores but CompUSA still does.
Sorry , can't help you with the optics part of it, wish I could right now. Probably won't be able to get
OHP and LCD til after Xmas , you know how that holiday shopping gets in the way...
Thanks again for the feedback, appreciate it.
Dragonzteeth
Dragonzteeth
Sorry everyone for this. If you feel the links I put up are not
productive to this forum or thread let me know and I will not intrude anymore.
They are productive and very important. We are little fellows playing in a very big field. Others have teams of highly paid engineers with PHD and big biudgets and software tools to make designs possible. All we have is our determination and our ingenuity to make a small hole in the system and try and burrow in. We have to be patient and observant and clever as we can be.
We have a small platform now. You and the other guys have found good things that work. Thats why I tried to bring it together on one page as a recap. I do find it difficult to keep reading and rereading the posts and keep them in mind so I did try to colate them so we could see how we are doing, and more importantly others reading this can see we have made some good progress. and hopefully join us Any solutions or part solution not on the recap list please let me know. We need every scrap of info. We have to look at a hundred possibilities to find one that is on the money.
I have sent an email to Morein telling him about progress. It's his thread and we have to respect that.
Something you might find useful.
Every Taiwanese/Chinese/Japanese/Korean supplier I have ever emailed always come back with polite useful information. Makes sense. They are interested in business. One off, 10 off, or a thousand they want the business. I usually get a perfect English reply within 2 working days and a comprehensive product .PDF document attached.
Sorry everyone for this. If you feel the links I put up are not
productive to this forum or thread let me know and I will not intrude anymore.
They are productive and very important. We are little fellows playing in a very big field. Others have teams of highly paid engineers with PHD and big biudgets and software tools to make designs possible. All we have is our determination and our ingenuity to make a small hole in the system and try and burrow in. We have to be patient and observant and clever as we can be.
We have a small platform now. You and the other guys have found good things that work. Thats why I tried to bring it together on one page as a recap. I do find it difficult to keep reading and rereading the posts and keep them in mind so I did try to colate them so we could see how we are doing, and more importantly others reading this can see we have made some good progress. and hopefully join us Any solutions or part solution not on the recap list please let me know. We need every scrap of info. We have to look at a hundred possibilities to find one that is on the money.
I have sent an email to Morein telling him about progress. It's his thread and we have to respect that.
Something you might find useful.
Every Taiwanese/Chinese/Japanese/Korean supplier I have ever emailed always come back with polite useful information. Makes sense. They are interested in business. One off, 10 off, or a thousand they want the business. I usually get a perfect English reply within 2 working days and a comprehensive product .PDF document attached.
Yandrr26
Now that I have had time to experiment with this setup a bit and project it on a proper screen, I have run into an optical problem. I am finding that the top of the image is much darker than the bottom. I would think optically top and bottom should be the same, but I guess not
If you turn the panel right around so the bottom is at the top will prove if its the panel or the optics.
If it is the optics we can think about what might be wrong if you like. I have a 10 inch projection panel on a OHP and no problems with overall brightness. With no panel on the OHP the light on the wall is also good same overall. Overall focus is good. Only thing I have is a very very small hot spot in the center which is not noticable, only if I look really critically.
The only thing I can think of right now is some of the light from the panel is falling outside the projection lens collection area and ending up on the ceiling.
Now that I have had time to experiment with this setup a bit and project it on a proper screen, I have run into an optical problem. I am finding that the top of the image is much darker than the bottom. I would think optically top and bottom should be the same, but I guess not
If you turn the panel right around so the bottom is at the top will prove if its the panel or the optics.
If it is the optics we can think about what might be wrong if you like. I have a 10 inch projection panel on a OHP and no problems with overall brightness. With no panel on the OHP the light on the wall is also good same overall. Overall focus is good. Only thing I have is a very very small hot spot in the center which is not noticable, only if I look really critically.
The only thing I can think of right now is some of the light from the panel is falling outside the projection lens collection area and ending up on the ceiling.
Unisys TFT screens
Been following this thread for a few days now and Lemming and I have been discussing the use of the Epia M motherboard for the driving of our Flatscreens, over on www.sudhian.com.
As for the monitors mentioned on Monday, I happen to have 22 of these in my office atm. 🙂 Not badged as unisys but Keycorp (an australian company) model K57h.
The LCD panels are Samsung Ones, and their Spec is on www.LCDSpecifications.com Model No LTM121SI-T01 the unisys claim to
be a smaller Screen size but the case design etc are all the same as ours.
the interface cable between the card and the Panel is LVDS, you can tell this by looking at the card. At the External connector are two National Semiconductors chips very small, running the part number through the search engine at www.national.com shows these to be LVDS line drivers.
I would really like to know if anyone else has got these working with any other LVDS output drivers, what results they had and what the pinout for those drivers was.
If anyone is interested in using the Epia-M motheboard to drive their LCD project the current news is that VIA are currently designing the LVDS module
to connect to their TTL output port. noone knows at this time what the specification of that output device will be. At the moment pricing looks set to be around 150Gbp and the very earliest models are shipping without the TTL port fitted, as of Today-ish. The Epia M runs on an embedded C3 processor which doesn't have a great FPU so Games'll suck a bit. But with Savage Twister Graphics and built in DVD decoding it should be an amazing home cinema/presentation machine. Which is why a lot of us are interested in building our own projectors.
Been following this thread for a few days now and Lemming and I have been discussing the use of the Epia M motherboard for the driving of our Flatscreens, over on www.sudhian.com.
As for the monitors mentioned on Monday, I happen to have 22 of these in my office atm. 🙂 Not badged as unisys but Keycorp (an australian company) model K57h.
The LCD panels are Samsung Ones, and their Spec is on www.LCDSpecifications.com Model No LTM121SI-T01 the unisys claim to
be a smaller Screen size but the case design etc are all the same as ours.
the interface cable between the card and the Panel is LVDS, you can tell this by looking at the card. At the External connector are two National Semiconductors chips very small, running the part number through the search engine at www.national.com shows these to be LVDS line drivers.
I would really like to know if anyone else has got these working with any other LVDS output drivers, what results they had and what the pinout for those drivers was.
If anyone is interested in using the Epia-M motheboard to drive their LCD project the current news is that VIA are currently designing the LVDS module
to connect to their TTL output port. noone knows at this time what the specification of that output device will be. At the moment pricing looks set to be around 150Gbp and the very earliest models are shipping without the TTL port fitted, as of Today-ish. The Epia M runs on an embedded C3 processor which doesn't have a great FPU so Games'll suck a bit. But with Savage Twister Graphics and built in DVD decoding it should be an amazing home cinema/presentation machine. Which is why a lot of us are interested in building our own projectors.
Yander26
I am sure the whole groups resources are at your disposal to help solve the light problem.
With prices coming down for late model LCD monitors this is an important panel solution offering much better performance than Ebay 10 - 15 year old projection panels. Better resolution, better clarity, better contrast, computer drive built in. And you can see it in operation before modifying for projection use.
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Originally posted by Smoke Eater
Is the main difference between the LDS270M and the ARV462 the fact that one is a PCI card and the other is "self-contained" and doesn't need to be operated with a computer? Are both capable of driving the high-end panels? Whoops, I see that the ARV is capable of UXGA while the LDS only mentions up to SXVA. Still, they both seem impressive.....especially when compared to my VGA panel I'm using now. I see Zardoz heading down the LDS path with Remp leaning towards the ARV route, any thoughts from you fellows as to why one route over the other? Or is it just a matter of preference (or resolution)?
Sorry for delay in reply.
Yes thats the main difference. The LDS270M is a PCI video card while the ARV-462 and ARV-468 are self contained units. that can receive analogue or digital input from a computer, and S-video and composite video and drive a good range of panels.
The ARV-468 is a state of the art self contained unit that would solve all problems but at $256 USD plus freight from Taiwan it is just too expensive except for those who want and can afford the best.
Zardoz had another application in mind which he explained so he chose the LDS270M video card.
I should also mention that with either the LDS270M video card or the ARV-468 self contained unit you still have to use a compatible panel not just any panel. It has to be a panel that accepts the LVDS signals or the TTL signals and one the controllers can connect to. The manufacturer gives a list of compatible panels.
Since I am still dedicated to finding the best deal for affordable money, it will be interesting to see if Zardoz's video card can drive a cheap laptop LCD.
I am sure the whole groups resources are at your disposal to help solve the light problem.
With prices coming down for late model LCD monitors this is an important panel solution offering much better performance than Ebay 10 - 15 year old projection panels. Better resolution, better clarity, better contrast, computer drive built in. And you can see it in operation before modifying for projection use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Smoke Eater
Is the main difference between the LDS270M and the ARV462 the fact that one is a PCI card and the other is "self-contained" and doesn't need to be operated with a computer? Are both capable of driving the high-end panels? Whoops, I see that the ARV is capable of UXGA while the LDS only mentions up to SXVA. Still, they both seem impressive.....especially when compared to my VGA panel I'm using now. I see Zardoz heading down the LDS path with Remp leaning towards the ARV route, any thoughts from you fellows as to why one route over the other? Or is it just a matter of preference (or resolution)?
Sorry for delay in reply.
Yes thats the main difference. The LDS270M is a PCI video card while the ARV-462 and ARV-468 are self contained units. that can receive analogue or digital input from a computer, and S-video and composite video and drive a good range of panels.
The ARV-468 is a state of the art self contained unit that would solve all problems but at $256 USD plus freight from Taiwan it is just too expensive except for those who want and can afford the best.
Zardoz had another application in mind which he explained so he chose the LDS270M video card.
I should also mention that with either the LDS270M video card or the ARV-468 self contained unit you still have to use a compatible panel not just any panel. It has to be a panel that accepts the LVDS signals or the TTL signals and one the controllers can connect to. The manufacturer gives a list of compatible panels.
Since I am still dedicated to finding the best deal for affordable money, it will be interesting to see if Zardoz's video card can drive a cheap laptop LCD.
I counted them as being around 40,
the wiring on the Graphics card shows
about 20 pins being used, some of these
appear to be voltage lines for driving the
backlight.
The connector itself is a D shape commonly
used for SCSII signalling (if fact I think LVDS is
used a lot more for signalling as scsii standard
rather than as the LCD standard it was concieved as )
As for the TTL outptut on the Epia board, it is a 40 pin
Hirose output. It matches the Hirose used inside my
laptop, but I can't confirm yet what signalling the laptop
screen uses. (It's a Sharp LM64C389 not on www.lcdspecifications.com)
the wiring on the Graphics card shows
about 20 pins being used, some of these
appear to be voltage lines for driving the
backlight.
The connector itself is a D shape commonly
used for SCSII signalling (if fact I think LVDS is
used a lot more for signalling as scsii standard
rather than as the LCD standard it was concieved as )
As for the TTL outptut on the Epia board, it is a 40 pin
Hirose output. It matches the Hirose used inside my
laptop, but I can't confirm yet what signalling the laptop
screen uses. (It's a Sharp LM64C389 not on www.lcdspecifications.com)
DragonzTeeth said:
Ok, here are the real dimensions, the overhead area is 11 1/2" X 11 1/2" The active area of the LCD panel is 11 3/8" X 8 1/2" a very tight fit, but it works. Thanks for the sugestions on the light remp, that was one of the things I was going to try. I solved the problem though, it was just that the fresnel lense wasn't sitting correct, since I didn't glue it after I cut the plastic. I put the fresnel lense on top of the glass to test this, and it worked fine. The picture looks good now, so I think I will build this into a box as I planed.
I was wrong
It seems I was wrong about solving my optical problem, the problem of the screen being dark on the top does lie in the panel. I thought I had solved this, because I had a image that was very light colored, and the effect doesn't show up then. I fliped the LCD around, and to my dismay it was the bottom that was dark. You can only see the effect when you have a uniform dark colored image, such as a blue windows desktop that I had. For some reason the panel is dark on the top, not sure why they did this, as the origional light came from the bottom. The effect isn't that bad if you adjust the brightness and contrast, but is still noticable on a dark screen if your looking for it. Not sure how to fix this, other than adjust your light source to give more light to the top. I am hopeing it won't be noticable with movies.
It seems I was wrong about solving my optical problem, the problem of the screen being dark on the top does lie in the panel. I thought I had solved this, because I had a image that was very light colored, and the effect doesn't show up then. I fliped the LCD around, and to my dismay it was the bottom that was dark. You can only see the effect when you have a uniform dark colored image, such as a blue windows desktop that I had. For some reason the panel is dark on the top, not sure why they did this, as the origional light came from the bottom. The effect isn't that bad if you adjust the brightness and contrast, but is still noticable on a dark screen if your looking for it. Not sure how to fix this, other than adjust your light source to give more light to the top. I am hopeing it won't be noticable with movies.
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