Richard did say most people will never hear the difference unless they listen in a very particular way. He also said it doesn't matter for 99% of designs. He seems to want people to know its not *totally* impossible for a few people to hear if they loop and practice. I don't know if that is at odds with Sy's measurements or not. I understand the math is hard to believe given the numbers, but we haven't proven it experimentally. And, unlike some seemingly impossible things, this one just might not be impossible.
On a slightly different topic, how short a time difference between two percussion instruments being sounded in monophonic do you think someone can hear? It may be less than you think, or maybe not?
Anyone can try it here: Blind testing a 5 ms Timing Difference (3-way)
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Just to get me subscribed to the continuing saga of circular arguments 🙂
@Mark: Jan got permission to make available online all Cyril Bateman's articles on capacitor distortion. These include how to make the test setup. Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles | Linear Audio NL . There is also a presentation by Doug Self on active crossovers that covers capacitor distortion from burning amp somewhere on youtube.
I personally see no boogeymen here!
@Mark: Jan got permission to make available online all Cyril Bateman's articles on capacitor distortion. These include how to make the test setup. Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles | Linear Audio NL . There is also a presentation by Doug Self on active crossovers that covers capacitor distortion from burning amp somewhere on youtube.
I personally see no boogeymen here!
You tell me, the sensationalists pick conditions to exaggerate the bad things and them apply the conclusions to all applications.
Both the picking capacitors and Bateman's articles were self published or published in hobby magazines with no technical peer review. Were there blind listening tests that would pass any serious review? I don't know, but I don't think so.
There can be an issue of professional courtesy, for instance in the case of Hawksford's wire articles at least one physicist easily pointed out in private the flaws in his article but did not publish them.
Scott, One of my uncles was convinced that wrestling was real. Woe be to the person who told him it was not. I remember him watching Gorgeous George in the 50s.
Scott: In fairness Cyril never mentioned audibility, just measurability. H2 100dB down really doesn't keep me awake at night though. I haven't read picking capacitors.
I just watched what Doug Self said in the video. First he said polypropylene capacitors have no distortion, then a bit later he said, as you can see it is very low about the same as a 5532 op amp. Okay. That's one data point. Will check out Cyril later.
I source NOS PP for $0.50 to $1.50 for my RIAA pre-amp that's what I'm talking about. You could literally have spent $1000 on snake oil audiophile caps.
More reading material ... trying to get it all out in short time and not spread out thru 100,000 pages.
http://www.waltjung.org/PDFs/A_RealTime_Signal_Test_For_Capacitor_Quality.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...f2e5f7ceac5ac5/High-Quality-Audio-Systems.pdf
Product Information: PMLCAP Technical Notes/Capacitor, Power Supply Units RUBYCON CORPORATION
THx-RNMarsh
http://www.waltjung.org/PDFs/A_RealTime_Signal_Test_For_Capacitor_Quality.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...f2e5f7ceac5ac5/High-Quality-Audio-Systems.pdf
Product Information: PMLCAP Technical Notes/Capacitor, Power Supply Units RUBYCON CORPORATION
THx-RNMarsh
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I already said John and Walt were not interested in any input that showed how slight the effects really were and that there was no real distortion (THD/IMD).
Dunno, lots I guess. I think they are productive, at least when they listen to each other, which I think they mostly do.
If I may answer a question with a question, "What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?" (Answer: "I don't know and I don't care.")
They are big boys and if they want to stop kvetching they both know how, without your help.
The kind where you aren't trying to referee. The kind where two smart guys can have a spirited discussion without some third party telling them how they are allowed to respond (we have moderators for that, and they are pretty good). The kind where a purely technical discussion can be carried on without some one trying to enforce a safe space.
While we're at it, I took great exception to your remarks about SY the other day, especially because of the hypocrisy. You made some very disparaging, personal remarks about him, called him rude, etc and never once addressed his technical arguments. Your attack on his character was purely personal. I don't know SY, he is not a friend of mine, but I have had some interactions with him on this forum (some private), and I have always found him generous, technically proficient, and honest. He has sometimes challenged assertions from some members who seemed ill informed, and that has sometimes led to some heated exchanges, but the heat was generally on the other side, SY has a knack for keeping it light. In many cases public rancour turned to private agreement, though we generally don't get to see that.
Now in the two pieces that Scott linked to, SY asked a question, provided some historical background, then showed his technical analysis. If you disagree with his analysis you are free to provide a critique, but you didn't do that. Some other guy chose to attack him, saying he was technically incompetent, unfamiliar with audio, or dishonest. SY responded with humour and a clear technical correction to the criticism. But you somehow decided that made SY the bad guy, rude, and aggressive, and you chose to criticize him for your perceived shortcomings, rather than addressing his analysis. That was pure bush league, cheap, nasty, and lowered the quality of technical discussion on this forum.
But I enjoy your contributions here when you focus on the technical and share your experiences. I think you have a lot to offer, even when I don't agree with you, but I wish you would lay off the personal stuff. You don't need to tell Scott how to talk to Ed, and if you think you do maybe it should be done privately. Maybe I should take my own advice! 🙂
You asked...
Its all put there for others to read and think about and decide for themselves.
Many have not read these and some others I am looking for.
I am old. SY was rude and annoying and I never learned anything useful from him. Always asked for what would amount to a PHD dissertation about everything you said. A good way to end any conversation in difference to his opinions. he was hard-core about DBLT as the final answer. IMO, of course. Nice guy? probably. But, I don't miss him here.
-RNM
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What modern "hi-fi" gear have you opened that uses a X7R, Z5U, Y5, etc. ceramic cap?
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