Screamers:
Lest you think you are the only nut - here's the current subject...
Pretty much every clamp I own on there now, still leaks a little, but it is sealed well enough for testing. I used cut nails to locate the panels, weatherstrip to seal the internals.
Maybe you are nuts, but I wish I had a workshop equipped as well as yours!
Are you a professional craftsman?Ben
Post #179
Hi jbell,
Let us know how this works out for you. Your layout drawing on the wood looks like what we have been talking about; the expansion in the S3 to S5 area looks a bit rapid (?). Anyhow, as I don't seem to find the time to built anything, I'm looking forward to hear about your results.
Regards,
Hi jbell,
Let us know how this works out for you. Your layout drawing on the wood looks like what we have been talking about; the expansion in the S3 to S5 area looks a bit rapid (?). Anyhow, as I don't seem to find the time to built anything, I'm looking forward to hear about your results.
Regards,
yea, hornresp says the rapid expansion doesn't help much, maybe a half db, but I thought it'd be worth trying. My plan is to start with no reflectors and no compression, and add one at a time and test to see what pays off and what doesn't. I have a week or so before this pair have to be ready, so I've got a little time to play. My guess is driver compression, angled sides close to driver opening, and a 45 at top/back only will probably yield the best output. My guess is about no matter what I do around the s4-s5 range, it won't make much of a difference. Since I glued the inside vs outside separate, I can move things around a little and vary the taper some. I'll just use window/door foam and screws for a tight seal during testing.
Flip, I'd like to compare this with your 2 cabinets you are building/testing, it'd be a nice comparison, since they'll all have 3015lf's.
Flip, I'd like to compare this with your 2 cabinets you are building/testing, it'd be a nice comparison, since they'll all have 3015lf's.
Attachments
Hi jbell,
Looks like you are already most of the way there. Keep in mind the shortened L12 as in Post #155. I did some more simulating, and there is a big difference in the transient response between short and longer L12. Actuall, moving the speaker further down into the throat (you loose a little L23) to increase L45, and simultaneously increasing S5 by angling the speaker mounting board towards the bottom edge of the mouth seemed to also help (but involves more woodworking). Keep the pictures coming.
Regards,
Looks like you are already most of the way there. Keep in mind the shortened L12 as in Post #155. I did some more simulating, and there is a big difference in the transient response between short and longer L12. Actuall, moving the speaker further down into the throat (you loose a little L23) to increase L45, and simultaneously increasing S5 by angling the speaker mounting board towards the bottom edge of the mouth seemed to also help (but involves more woodworking). Keep the pictures coming
.Regards,
I'll definitely do a shorted L12, that's a must. My 3015lf's won't show up till tomorrow or friday, so I hope to get some time in before the weekend. I'm cooking easter breakfast for my church, so this weekend is spoken for.
(He is Risen indeed) and that's my dad in the hat...
It may be next week before I have any results to share. Keep the ideas coming, it'd be nice to have a simple 24x24x48 design available.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(He is Risen indeed) and that's my dad in the hat...
It may be next week before I have any results to share. Keep the ideas coming, it'd be nice to have a simple 24x24x48 design available.
Maybe you are nuts, but I wish I had a workshop equipped as well as yours!
Ben
Nope - just an over-equipped and under-skilled amateur with all of it. I just do a lot more than play with subs and speakers, though there are probably 400+ drivers stored out there currently
(LOTS of line array / CBT parts included in that count).Where was that 12-step program again Jim?
I can get a very simple short single flare model down to somewhat less than 16 cubic feet. That model simulated with a 4 dB passband ripple, 40 Hz was ~3 dB down, and usable out to ~200 Hz. Thermal limits only above Fc. Below Fc - use a steep highpass.
The real world ripple will be less, the question is how much less....
The corner will also likely be different with a real-world fold, and again, the question is how much different....
Biggest question I have (for myself) is whether or not I can make a workable fold out of this simulation. TB46 has some great ideas presented already, I'm not certain I can really add too much to this.
The real world ripple will be less, the question is how much less....
The corner will also likely be different with a real-world fold, and again, the question is how much different....
Biggest question I have (for myself) is whether or not I can make a workable fold out of this simulation. TB46 has some great ideas presented already, I'm not certain I can really add too much to this.
I'm interested in what parameters you selected to get the response so high. Every sim I've tried with the 3015LF either looks ugly or craps out around 100 Hz.
Brian go look at the Furybox.
transfer
Side note is that the Apache H15 models exactly the same in HR so I will assume the real world will be same to.
JBell - that box looks like my TH Mini layout only
using a 15 and longer path. Definitely will share results. I have the Apache half done. The Furybox is on hold until Screamer gets back with me on some layout issues. IE if it is supposed to have a negative taper. After I get done with the Furybox I will build another that will be based on the Apache style but with Staipers (speakerplans) recommendations of layout.
Anyone you used the Lab 15 yet?
transfer
Side note is that the Apache H15 models exactly the same in HR so I will assume the real world will be same to.
JBell - that box looks like my TH Mini layout only
using a 15 and longer path. Definitely will share results. I have the Apache half done. The Furybox is on hold until Screamer gets back with me on some layout issues. IE if it is supposed to have a negative taper. After I get done with the Furybox I will build another that will be based on the Apache style but with Staipers (speakerplans) recommendations of layout.
Anyone you used the Lab 15 yet?
It is an easy-button simple short conical flare tapped horn. 700 throat, 2000 mouth, short L12 and short L34, L23 ~220 cm, total length ~260 cm. Nothing new here.
Yeah, it models lumpy through the passband. First - that is a model, measure a real one before you lose any sleep, Second - it is only a few dB from flat, the room will do worse, and that is what EQ is for.
littlemike - simple tutorial
thanks, this
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
is really helping me understand how it all comes together. Now the time for experimentation and fun has begun!
For practice I will try modelling existing proven horns, and move on from there.
Thanks again littlemike and everybody else who has contributed!
Ben
thanks, this
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
is really helping me understand how it all comes together. Now the time for experimentation and fun has begun!
For practice I will try modelling existing proven horns, and move on from there.
Thanks again littlemike and everybody else who has contributed!
Ben
Erros???
Hi,
BP1Fanatic: in the Hornresp Input Parameters (Post #193) you have Ap1 and Lpt as 0.00. This is obviously incorrect, even if Hornresp doesn't lock up on it; Hornresp should probably flag this and not just insert some nominal values that may or may not have anything to do with the model. The throat chamber, and the transition form the throat chamber into the horn propper, will affect the Hornresp impulse response quite severely, and should be modelled accurately.
We see the same error in the "postbuild Furybox closer calculation.4015" (see Post #194) Hornresp Input Parameters posted on screamersusa's transfer page. There we'll also find a major change in Le to 5.40mH, which may well be the result of using a series inductor (?). It looks like screamerusa simply has not had the time to refine his documentation (and believe me, I know how that can happen).
I'm just pointing this out for people who are just starting into the tapped horn world. In building these enclosures attention to detail is necessary first in the simulation phase, and then in the building phase, or you may just end up with a pile of firewood. We may get away with "murder" in the general horn path areas and length, but around the driver every little change counts.
And then there is always the simulate-build-measure-compare-repeat cycle.
Regards,
P.S.: Have a great April 01 guys.
Hi,
BP1Fanatic: in the Hornresp Input Parameters (Post #193) you have Ap1 and Lpt as 0.00. This is obviously incorrect, even if Hornresp doesn't lock up on it; Hornresp should probably flag this and not just insert some nominal values that may or may not have anything to do with the model. The throat chamber, and the transition form the throat chamber into the horn propper, will affect the Hornresp impulse response quite severely, and should be modelled accurately.
We see the same error in the "postbuild Furybox closer calculation.4015" (see Post #194) Hornresp Input Parameters posted on screamersusa's transfer page. There we'll also find a major change in Le to 5.40mH, which may well be the result of using a series inductor (?). It looks like screamerusa simply has not had the time to refine his documentation (and believe me, I know how that can happen).
I'm just pointing this out for people who are just starting into the tapped horn world. In building these enclosures attention to detail is necessary first in the simulation phase, and then in the building phase, or you may just end up with a pile of firewood. We may get away with "murder" in the general horn path areas and length, but around the driver every little change counts.
And then there is always the simulate-build-measure-compare-repeat cycle.
Regards,
P.S.: Have a great April 01 guys.
Attachments
Question!
Hello, I´m following this tread with great interest and are likely to bulid one of your th-designs.
The thing is that I have acquired a pair Electro Voice SH-1810 for a reasonable price. But I am a bit concerned about the frequency response. It falls dramaticaly below 250hz which I interpret would create a nice gap between the SH-1810 and the TH?
To cope with this problem I thought you could put the woofer (EVM-18B) in a new box similar to this: my small th kick bin - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
What do you think? I`m I out biking?
Did a bit of modeling in Hr that looked nice to me(complete amature). Got freq resp up to 300hz, does that even work in a Th or does it sound crappy?
And to top this out! I want all of it to run on solarpower, thats why Im concerned about sensitivity.
SH-1810: http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/SH-1810 EDS.pdf
EVM-18B: http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/EVM-18B Series II EDS.pdf
There should have been a pic of my Hr-sim but I don´t know how to make a screen dump, running windows on mac.....
hAPPY EASTER
Anders
Hello, I´m following this tread with great interest and are likely to bulid one of your th-designs.
The thing is that I have acquired a pair Electro Voice SH-1810 for a reasonable price. But I am a bit concerned about the frequency response. It falls dramaticaly below 250hz which I interpret would create a nice gap between the SH-1810 and the TH?
To cope with this problem I thought you could put the woofer (EVM-18B) in a new box similar to this: my small th kick bin - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
What do you think? I`m I out biking?
Did a bit of modeling in Hr that looked nice to me(complete amature). Got freq resp up to 300hz, does that even work in a Th or does it sound crappy?
And to top this out! I want all of it to run on solarpower, thats why Im concerned about sensitivity.
SH-1810: http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/SH-1810 EDS.pdf
EVM-18B: http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/EVM-18B Series II EDS.pdf
There should have been a pic of my Hr-sim but I don´t know how to make a screen dump, running windows on mac.....
hAPPY EASTER
Anders
Last edited:
You're welcome. I am glad you found the tutorial useful.
It would be worth far less than it is had I not received the help I did (as well as the encouragement I have), I just tried to put things in one place and explain what I do in the design of a tapped horn.
Experimentation is great fun, but you have to be able to quantify what you've done to really make it worthwhile, so consider some measurement gear as a next step. Impedance sweeps and accurate thiele/small parameters are a fundamental part of these projects, SPL is the one that gets people's attention though.