Why? You are looking at approximately 110db for a pair in a room with listening distance.
Rob 🙂
And JBL them selfs are using the 2216nd as follow:
JBL 4367 specs are -6 dB at 30 hz, and xover at 700 hz.
JBL S4700 specs are -6 dB at 38 hz
And strangely enough JBL dosen´t mention - dB on the M2 model?
2216nd have FS 38, when heated up and with large signal FS is closer 31 hz
Max limited xmax is ca +-8,5 mm.
At max SPL 2216nd fall -15 dB from 100 hz to 20 hz, and -10 dB from 40 to 20 hz.
With your F3 at 25Hz, SPL is highly reduced.
At 40 hz with 3 meter of listening distance, max SPL from the 2216nd is about 98 dB.
Your "approximately 110db" is way up higher then "subwoofer-range" 20-120 hz, at best from 200 hz but most likeley at about 700 hz.
Specifications
[td]System Format[/td] [td]2-Way Floor Standing or Soffit Mountable[/td] [td]HF Driver[/td] [td]D2430K Dual Diaphragm Dual Voice Coil Compression Driver[/td] [td]LF Driver[/td] [td]2216Nd 15 in (381 mm) Differential Drive® Woofer[/td] [td]Crossover Frequency[/td] [td]800 Hz[/td] [td]Frequency Response (±3 dB)[/td] [td]20 Hz - 40 kHz[/td] [td]Coverage Angle[/td] [td]120° H x 100° V[/td] [td]Sensitivity[/td] [td]92 dB[/td] [td]Continuous/Peak SPL@ 1m[/td] [td]117 dB /123 dB; 108 dB Peak SPL @ 8m[/td] [td]The System Requires[/td] [td]One Crown® iTech 5000HD power amp for each speaker, or One Crown® iTech 3x3500HD power amp for two (2) speakers.[/td] [td]Amplifier Power Rating[/td] [td]1,200 Watts into 8 ohms[/td] [td]Input Connectors[/td] [td]Spring Terminals[/td] [td]Enclosure[/td] [td]25 mm (1 in) MDF[/td] [td]Finish[/td] [td]Satin Black Lacquer[/td] [td]Included[/td] [td]Removable ABS Grille with Black UL Compliant Fabric[/td] [td]Dimensions (w x h x d)[/td] [td]508mm x 1256mm x 355.6mm (20in x 49.5in x 14in)[/td] [td]Net Weight (each)[/td] [td]58.5 kg (129 lb)[/td] [td]Maximum Peak SPL[/td] [td]123 dB[/td] [td]Maximum Continuous SPL[/td] [td]117 dB[/td]
Max peak SPL is 123dB 117 continuous and 108 Peak at 8 meters for the M2. My max output will be bandwidth limited by the bump filter by 6db and my max input power. So I loosed 6db of headroom no big deal plenty of available SPL. I don't know how you are coming up with these numbers? X max is 10mm so 20pp. The system is +/- 3dB 20-40k
Is this just looking at spec sheets or do you actually use or have used a pair?
"At max SPL 2216nd fall -15 dB from 100 hz to 20 hz, and -10 dB from 40 to 20 hz."
What are you saying here?
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33565-2216Nd
Rob 🙂
when i do a very quick sim with data i measured long ago from a JBL 2216ND with REW i get this:
it's true thtat 25Hz is 15dB down from 100hz, but 30Hz is 3db down (this both taking the xmax as limit). In reality the driver will go lower, but with heavy distortion if you push it to much because the physical limit is not xmax but xlim (that is higher). But 25hz has a max of 109dB here, louder than you ever will and almost where the OP want it. And that one dB that is lacking within Xmax limits, will be archiveble with a bit more distortion (something you won't hear at that frequency and volume).
So yes, this fits the OP's needs i think. And with a crossover at 700hz, you can match it with a lot of compression drivers in horn. The JBL D2430K driver itself is a dual driver CD altought (so no strickt 2 way), but if you use the Celestion Axi2050, you get a 2 way covering the whole band at low distortion at high volume. And there are other CD's also who can take that role of the (expensive) Axi2050...
it's true thtat 25Hz is 15dB down from 100hz, but 30Hz is 3db down (this both taking the xmax as limit). In reality the driver will go lower, but with heavy distortion if you push it to much because the physical limit is not xmax but xlim (that is higher). But 25hz has a max of 109dB here, louder than you ever will and almost where the OP want it. And that one dB that is lacking within Xmax limits, will be archiveble with a bit more distortion (something you won't hear at that frequency and volume).
So yes, this fits the OP's needs i think. And with a crossover at 700hz, you can match it with a lot of compression drivers in horn. The JBL D2430K driver itself is a dual driver CD altought (so no strickt 2 way), but if you use the Celestion Axi2050, you get a 2 way covering the whole band at low distortion at high volume. And there are other CD's also who can take that role of the (expensive) Axi2050...
The 117 dB is for the M2 system and +/- 3 dB from 20 to 40K from JBL's spec sheet. You can't use an anechoic measurements of the 2216 driver where it's essentially measured as an infinite baffle and use that as your yard stick WRT using a driver in a reflex box not to mention any bass reinforcement from a listening room. Run the driver in a sim like the previous poster waxx did and I did to see what's up.
Your analysis is meaningless in the actual application of the driver or it's LF capability. You are completely ignoring the DSP used in the M2 to tailor the LF response of the driver in the system. JBL uses a bump filter @ 22Hz and bleeds off the HF rise using a tilted shelf filter.
Here is an independent review. DSP used to tailor the 2216Nd in an M2
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/jbl_m2/
Rob 🙂
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it's what i also did when i did tune the M2 with Purifi amps and a MiniDSP Flex for someone a while ago. The M2 is a speaker that is build for dsp. That's also why it goes lower than the 4367 that uses a similar cabinet and the same drivers, but with a passive crossover.
Yes I combined a full passive crossover with the DSP in my processor. Crossover and CD/Horn comp passive with a bump filter I can adjust as needed to extend the low end of the system done in DSP.
Rob 🙂
Dual gap Differential drive JBL's is not suited for that purpose.
You do not want to listen to it when the inductive braking effect is "engaged".😉
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The 4367 uses the 2216ND-1, the cone/surrond edge has been treated with Aquaplas (helps suppress the resonance), mms is higher and suspension is more compliant so it has a lower FS, and slightly lower sensitivity.
More suited for a passive network.
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The "won't hear it part" I am not so sure. You can't run a sub frequency level into distortion without distorting the midrange, if the woofer has it in the passband.... If you feed a driver a 20hz signal that pushes the diaphragm into non linearity it will distort the frequencies up the spectrum regardless that they themselves ask for much less excursion. So if you want to take advantage of how we here LF Thd with less sensitivity, then you'll have to high pass accordingly
Carbon fiber, I'm considering using it for an aesthetic . Im a fan of Ink Blue/Black type colors, monochrome type pallets, charcoal and slate type colors... Caron Fiber fits right in.... I want a somewhat organic look and as well traditional, like a the technology in Wakanda in the Marvel movies... Technology+Nature, if you will.