Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

[camplo]

Hopefully I am not mistaken thinking that voicing and room correction can be done from the listening position 😅

 

[TNT]

Have you gone stereo yet?

//

 

[camplo]

No... but I did the most ballsy thing ever, the other day..... I stained my horns. Still need to do another coat of stain, then when thats done, I can do the clear coat.
Recently bought a sprayer that I intend to use for the clear coat. I might use the sprayer for the second application of stain.

My only hindsight, so far, is that I wish I had of put some effort into bleaching the horns whiter...the wood was light already but the whiter it is the more monochromatic things will be. That is the attribute I would like, underneath the clear coat, which I intend to tint with shades of blue green and black.

Should be somethin....

Anyone up for XO design. Voicing and room eq can be done insitu.... why is this ok?

 

[gedlee]

My only hindsight, so far, is that I wish I had of put some effort into bleaching the horns whiter.

I've done a lot of while bleaching and I am very happy with the results. Let me know if you want sone pointers.

 

[camplo]

I probably won't bleach it now that I've started the staining process but a whiter wood would have provided even more contrast to the color scheme...

I was able to find a guy who gave me some really good tips on staining. His approach was to thin the stain with an agent, and then multiple coats.... 25/75, 50/50, 75/25 were the types of ratios thought of but I put my own spin on it.... My mix has been 2 teaspoons of stain to 3 cups turpentine.... first application was by brush. Used only 4 teaspoons of stain. Today I did several applications by sprayer, which uses significantly much less material due to a 0.6mm tip and it is awesome. The highly diluted stain, in combination with the small tip size, in combo with running about 10psi, create a very fine mist and subtle application.

The stain color is minwax aged barrel, and its giving a weathered look with the subtle application I've chosen. At the moment, I have some steel wool soaking in white vinegar, as I prepare for an application tomorrow. This stain recipe is used for a weathered look as well and will hopefully compliment aged/weathered look, I am going for.

I have to figure out if I want to add a black tea pre stain to add additional tannins to the Birch wood which interact with the vinegar solution to create color in the wood.

So far so good, for an amateur 🫡

 

[camplo]

Hopefully I am not mistaken thinking that voicing and room correction can be done from the listening position 😅

Is it because the high frequency is dominated by direct sound, in a small room? The timing of cycle and psychological processing put the rest of the reflections into a mode of being perceived as "air"? So there are no modes in the treble region. There still seem to be some modal issues common to domestic rooms, higher then some may think?

Here are some of the modes that tend to be problematic:

1. Axial Modes: These occur along the room's primary axes (length, width, height). Axial modes are often the most problematic because they can cause pronounced peaks and nulls in the frequency response. For example, the modes related to the length of the room can lead to bass frequencies that are excessively loud in some areas and almost non-existent in others.
2. Tangential Modes: Tangential modes occur between pairs of room surfaces (e.g., between opposing walls or between the floor and two walls). They can cause uneven bass response and affect mid-frequency performance as well.
3. Oblique Modes: Oblique modes result from sound waves bouncing at various angles between room surfaces. They can be particularly challenging to address because they are not as strongly related to specific room dimensions. Oblique modes can cause mid and high-frequency unevenness in the room's response.
4. Standing Waves: Standing waves are a type of room mode where specific frequencies resonate and produce nodes (areas of minimum energy) and antinodes (areas of maximum energy). This can lead to uneven sound distribution and exaggerated bass response.
5. Flutter Echoes: While not technically room modes, flutter echoes are repetitive reflections that can occur between parallel surfaces (e.g., opposing walls) and create distinct, audible echoes.

To address these issues, acoustic treatment is often necessary. Bass traps, diffusers, and absorbers can help control room modes and improve sound quality. Additionally, speaker placement and listening position optimization can also mitigate the impact of room modes. Room correction systems and digital equalization can further fine-tune the audio response in problematic rooms.

 

[TNT]

To post a description of a look without a picture is cruel

//

 

[camplo]

Middle, is the horns currently, after the several, very light, applications, there are hues of blue, red, and green, that I do like. It may look like an uneven application but the surface is not consistent in texture, leading to absorption rates that are not the same, or, almost, if not, non existent. Particularly, on 4 different lines from, beginning to the end, if looking into the horn, I can see something like a burst pattern, I think its related to machining. Looks fine from an artistical view if I can pull it off, I mean its symmetrical, so thats good lol, The major, looks blotchy, but in a natural way? It appears as shading, to me.
All the way to the right is the test results of the vinegar stain. In top most left of that pic you can see a bit of brownish/reddish....That's the undiluted concoction (white vinegar and steel wool, filled to the top, no lid) after 12 hours of periodic double boiler style heating and resting in their canning jars... The other 2 colors are the results of different dilution ratios with tap water...1:3 and 1:6 to be exact. I am hoping the consistency of this type of stain will, help bring all the colors together. Everything is going in the direction that I agree with so far, if the iron acetate brings the colors I like to the horn, that will be a plus.... the finish will change everything, once again.

 

[b_force]

I am confused why it keeps staying this vague, but anyway.

Everyone with a scientific background knows that saying that a certain hypothesis is true because of the theoretical model is solid, is not performing great science.
That is NOT because the model and the outcomes of it are being doubted.
As I mentioned before, it looks super promising and solid.

It's because plenty of other (maybe) unforeseen side effects or variables can be at play.
Or in other words, things that all of a sudden are NOT expected from the theoretical models and first principles.
(a very classic example of this, Rutherford's gold foil experiment).

This doesn't have anything to do with research in medicines or RCT's.
It's valid for ALL science.
Sometimes those effects are very unlikely that is true, but by the laws of science they have to be ruled out nevertheless.
Btw, I don't understand why you mentioned RCT's, because there isn't much randomness involved here?
Just a few different configurations.

To quote yourself even;


So apparently there are more things needed to make a general statement.

It makes one wonder where the ins- and outs are?

- So why is it not working for tweeters?
Since that is literally also just another break-up resonance reflected back.
It follows the same driver model like you mentioned before.
Except the suspension is quite different.
(well and the acoustic model and behavior, but that is not something we have to worry about for this)

- Because of the previous, does the coil former has an effect?

- Is it working for ALL woofers with a break-up resonance? (followed up by the previous again)
If you search the forum and internet, people's past (years of) experiences seem to be different.
Incl some very respected people in audio.
Maybe they could be totally wrong, but to be objectively solid this must verified (and debunked) at least.

- Is the Le of importance, since it can potentially absorb the same thing?
According to the same models, I can totally see that this notch thing mostly works when there is plenty of demodulation.
Aka, Le is practically totally bypassed. But any information about the nuances is missing at this point.

Lastly, you say that the practical results of your blog post are evident.
It looks very promising, but the results itself are hard to read since they almost disappear on the bottom of the graph.
It also doesn't show other variables, like a driver with a much higher Le for example.
It's also hard to judge because a 2nd order lowpass was used at the same time.
Granted, it's not likely that this will have an effect on the results, but one must rule this out to make the results transparent.

But most importantly, one swallow does not make a summer.

I have an hard time to see why an experiment wouldn't comply?
It's nothing more than just adding a notch filter in series (and maybe scale the results accordingly)

Which brings up also so many more questions.
If we look at the results from the Dayton woofer, we see A LOT more happening in the distortion graph.
Where is all of that coming from?

Once again, this is not about believing in anything.
It's about staying skeptical on an healthy way to make sure that certain claims are objectivity true.
At this moment I see it as very promising and solid preliminary investigation, but there are to many open ends to close the entire loop.

Unfortunately it seems that we only will stay in theoretical loops.
Which is very unfortunate, because at this moment practical results say a lot more than just words.
There is no doubt about the words, there never was to begin with.

I guess we will never get an answer to this

 

[docali]

View attachment 1212054 View attachment 1212051 View attachment 1212052
Middle, is the horns currently, after the several, very light, applications, there are hues of blue, red, and green, that I do like. It may look like an uneven application but the surface is not consistent in texture, leading to absorption rates that are not the same, or, almost, if not, non existent. Particularly, on 4 different lines from, beginning to the end, if looking into the horn, I can see something like a burst pattern, I think its related to machining. Looks fine from an artistical view if I can pull it off, I mean its symmetrical, so thats good lol, The major, looks blotchy, but in a natural way? It appears as shading, to me.
All the way to the right is the test results of the vinegar stain. In top most left of that pic you can see a bit of brownish/reddish....That's the undiluted concoction (white vinegar and steel wool, filled to the top, no lid) after 12 hours of periodic double boiler style heating and resting in their canning jars... The other 2 colors are the results of different dilution ratios with tap water...1:3 and 1:6 to be exact. I am hoping the consistency of this type of stain will, help bring all the colors together. Everything is going in the direction that I agree with so far, if the iron acetate brings the colors I like to the horn, that will be a plus.... the finish will change everything, once again.

What I would do is to live with the look and the small imperfections of multiplex. If you apply PU clear coat as in the mk3b2 thread or simply linseed oil varnish or violin varnish then you get automatically colour and a very interesting and dramatic look especially inside the horn.

 

[gedlee]

I guess we will never get an answer to this

I think that it is a lack of interest. I read some of the comments, but I did not find any of the technology to be significant. There isn't much point in continuing discussions of things that are insignificant.

 

[b_force]

I think that it is a lack of interest. I read some of the comments, but I did not find any of the technology to be significant. There isn't much point in continuing discussions of things that are insignificant.

Interesting, it's one of the few things lately that I found interesting, lol

Although I was also referring more to some claims that are just a hypothesis at this point.
So what I meant was more along the lines of a follow up.

 

[camplo]

What I would do is to live with the look and the small imperfections of multiplex. If you apply PU clear coat as in the mk3b2 thread or simply linseed oil varnish or violin varnish then you get automatically colour and a very interesting and dramatic look especially inside the horn.

I don't exactly disagree. I've done enough research to gather that Tung Oil and Linseed have pretty much the same "dramatic" effect... all the drama is really the result of oil... Oil finishes create look that is resemblant to being wet. For that reason, I am going with an Oil based polyurethane. I will add my own coloring. The end result will look similar to linseed/tung Oil but with colors I desire instead of the reddish color common to the Linseed and Tung Oil....

 

[jccart]

I probably won't bleach it now that I've started the staining process but a whiter wood would have provided even more contrast to the color scheme...

I was able to find a guy who gave me some really good tips on staining. His approach was to thin the stain with an agent, and then multiple coats.... 25/75, 50/50, 75/25 were the types of ratios thought of but I put my own spin on it.... My mix has been 2 teaspoons of stain to 3 cups turpentine.... first application was by brush. Used only 4 teaspoons of stain. Today I did several applications by sprayer, which uses significantly much less material due to a 0.6mm tip and it is awesome. The highly diluted stain, in combination with the small tip size, in combo with running about 10psi, create a very fine mist and subtle application.

The stain color is minwax aged barrel, and its giving a weathered look with the subtle application I've chosen. At the moment, I have some steel wool soaking in white vinegar, as I prepare for an application tomorrow. This stain recipe is used for a weathered look as well and will hopefully compliment aged/weathered look, I am going for.

I have to figure out if I want to add a black tea pre stain to add additional tannins to the Birch wood which interact with the vinegar solution to create color in the wood.

So far so good, for an amateur 🫡

just tried this today the tea definitely makes a less blotchy outcome my vinega stain came out dark grey . nor what I was trying for but it's quite nice

 

[AllenB]

I am going with an Oil based polyurethane.

Oil based is a term that can refer to finishes that are thinned with, or where you'd choose to wash your brush in turpentine. Traditionally this category has some superior finishes.

Maybe it's region dependent.. but it's not necessarily the same thing as rubbing oil into your product.

 

[Mister Audio]

Many years ago I used what was called a 'newer tech.' water-based clear coating product on hard ply.
Over time, it became apparent that it had poor adhesion/grip and definite degradation.
I say to you all > Use 'oil based anything', but never water-based crap.

 

[markbakk]

I use water based crap for decades now. Nothing wrong with it and it doesn’t become yellow in the shades of a normal interior.

 

[markbakk]

Interesting, it's one of the few things lately that I found interesting, lol

Although I was also referring more to some claims that are just a hypothesis at this point.
So what I meant was more along the lines of a follow up.

I agree. This certainly is something that needs exploring, while we should ask ourselves if these phenomena are perceivable, we need to get from specific to general on this.

 

[454Casull]

https://blackforestwood.com/products/black-forest-ceramic-coating

 

[b_force]

I agree. This certainly is something that needs exploring, while we should ask ourselves if these phenomena are perceivable, we need to get from specific to general on this.

At this moment it feels a bit unsatisfying.

We all went deeper in it, to understand all the ins- and outs, the nuances.
So the only thing what is left to do, is gather objective data. (which is a lot more than a blog post and FB message we have now)
But as soon as we have to make our hands dirty, we just back of en masse.

Resulting in yet another hypothesis that we can argue and fight about forever, because the boundaries are unclear.

I think the questions I asked before still stand and are still unanswered.