Regarding driver rigidity and isobaric
If rigidity of HE woofers were still an issue why don't we see more of this?
Maybe I'm missing something - help me please! - but to me the Fs is very important because as far as I'm aware Fs defines the lower natural roll off possible when one is looking "to cover the whole spectrum".
Simplistically, when I look at a set of T&S specs I look to:
- Fs (how low can it play)
- Vas (how big an enclosure does it want)
- Qts (what alignment will it prefer).
So my original question remains, where to find a diver like the TAD?
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View attachment 965120A cheap, but decent option would be a pair of these.
You could ask the seller whether he has a pair that measure identical values at the terminals (measuring the resistance across a woofer terminals with a multimeter yields Re, the resistance of the voice coil).
This driver is basically a clone of the JBL 2226 and TAD 1601.
It should go low enough for all but the biggest living rooms.
Here's a review by a highly-regarded German DIY magazine (use translate).
Don't forget to negotiate 😉
You could ask the seller whether he has a pair that measure identical values at the terminals (measuring the resistance across a woofer terminals with a multimeter yields Re, the resistance of the voice coil).
This driver is basically a clone of the JBL 2226 and TAD 1601.
It should go low enough for all but the biggest living rooms.
Here's a review by a highly-regarded German DIY magazine (use translate).
Don't forget to negotiate 😉
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Great pick up thanks Ro808!
The "best" (IMHO) budget option I've come across is the Faital Pro 15PR400
Fs = 35, Vas = 228L, Qts = 0.32
I have some experience with its little brother the Faital Pro 12PR300 in a two way floor stand.
I use them in my bedroom. It sounds so super sweet in the mid-range but just doesn't have the bass extension for my taste.
Perhaps the 15PR400 in about 200 litres vented would?.....
The "best" (IMHO) budget option I've come across is the Faital Pro 15PR400
Fs = 35, Vas = 228L, Qts = 0.32
I have some experience with its little brother the Faital Pro 12PR300 in a two way floor stand.
I use them in my bedroom. It sounds so super sweet in the mid-range but just doesn't have the bass extension for my taste.
Perhaps the 15PR400 in about 200 litres vented would?.....
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The 15PR400 does indeed go lower and (re)produces low frequencies with significantly more authority.
It would be an excellent upgrade, especially if you could cross < 800 Hz.
It would be an excellent upgrade, especially if you could cross < 800 Hz.
This one....
P.Audio BMD750 Series II - P.Audio BMD750 Series II 2" high frequency compression driver. P.Audio speaker components available at US Speaker.
With this horn....
2" Throat Horn Bolt-On 18"x10"For Assorted Bolt On 2"Exit Drivers 90°x 40°(398) | eBay
Reckon I can cross this around 800hz?
P.Audio BMD750 Series II - P.Audio BMD750 Series II 2" high frequency compression driver. P.Audio speaker components available at US Speaker.
With this horn....
2" Throat Horn Bolt-On 18"x10"For Assorted Bolt On 2"Exit Drivers 90°x 40°(398) | eBay
Reckon I can cross this around 800hz?
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Yes, you can.
That horn is actually quite good, it's more or less a cheaper alternative to the Klipsch K510.
This Sica seems to be one of the few inexpensive 15" drivers that looks decent in the midrange while having TSPs that allow a low tuning (EBP of around 83 Hz).
I myself am using the Beyma 15lx60v2 which can also be tuned quite low due to the highish Qes and low Vas. Although a combination of larger Vas, lower fs and lower Qes would be preferable it is seemingly used in a commercial active two-way studio monitor, some large cinema systems and as a TAD alternative in a Canadian high-end speaker.
Regards
Charles
I myself am using the Beyma 15lx60v2 which can also be tuned quite low due to the highish Qes and low Vas. Although a combination of larger Vas, lower fs and lower Qes would be preferable it is seemingly used in a commercial active two-way studio monitor, some large cinema systems and as a TAD alternative in a Canadian high-end speaker.
Regards
Charles
That's a very nice woofer indeed, nice parameters and it sounds really good too.
Most Procella speakers are equipped with Sica drivers.
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2 way design for the complete audio spectrum
I used cheap drivers for the bass 4 times 18'' in bass reflex tuned to 25 Hertz per side in a Linkwitz back to back design with one driver turned for reducing K2 distortion. I covered one side of the diaphragm with aluminium foil (3 times the thickness of aluminium used in households for food).
Its a Mivoc WS-1865 bass driver:
Subwoofer Mivoc WS 1865 C-4 specifications.
Frequency response linearized with dsp from 20 Hertz to 8o Hertz.
For the upper frequencies I chose a fullrange driver Sica 12D with copper ring and high efficiency. The Sica 12 d enclosures are not yet ready. I will use them back to back 2 per side for duo monopole (dipole with two monopoles) reproduction in closed box. Impulse compensated (like boxer motor for vibrations) and diaphragm will be treated with copper foil and aluminium.
The bass enclosure has 12mm plywood outside and 10mm concrete inside.
Crossover is made with a Behringer Inuke Nu3000dsp amplifier with 48db slopes at 80 Hertz. The Sica 12 D will work from 80 to 20 khz with dsp correction.
I used cheap drivers for the bass 4 times 18'' in bass reflex tuned to 25 Hertz per side in a Linkwitz back to back design with one driver turned for reducing K2 distortion. I covered one side of the diaphragm with aluminium foil (3 times the thickness of aluminium used in households for food).
Its a Mivoc WS-1865 bass driver:
Subwoofer Mivoc WS 1865 C-4 specifications.
Frequency response linearized with dsp from 20 Hertz to 8o Hertz.
For the upper frequencies I chose a fullrange driver Sica 12D with copper ring and high efficiency. The Sica 12 d enclosures are not yet ready. I will use them back to back 2 per side for duo monopole (dipole with two monopoles) reproduction in closed box. Impulse compensated (like boxer motor for vibrations) and diaphragm will be treated with copper foil and aluminium.
The bass enclosure has 12mm plywood outside and 10mm concrete inside.
Crossover is made with a Behringer Inuke Nu3000dsp amplifier with 48db slopes at 80 Hertz. The Sica 12 D will work from 80 to 20 khz with dsp correction.
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Brand + type is in the attached images: RCF MB15X301.
Unfortunately RCF drivers are quite expensive in most shops, except TLHP.
I have bought and used drivers from quite a few brands (B&C, Beyma, BMS, Sica, 18Sound etc.) and found RCF drivers deviate the least from the published measurement data.
This is also confirmed by Joseph Crowe. Ever seen such a simple passive crossover filter for a 2 way including a constant coverage horn?
In reality, the RCF could very well trump the Sica.
Unfortunately RCF drivers are quite expensive in most shops, except TLHP.
I have bought and used drivers from quite a few brands (B&C, Beyma, BMS, Sica, 18Sound etc.) and found RCF drivers deviate the least from the published measurement data.
This is also confirmed by Joseph Crowe. Ever seen such a simple passive crossover filter for a 2 way including a constant coverage horn?
In reality, the RCF could very well trump the Sica.
A pair of RCF 1.4" drivers (tested on the same horn) reveal a near identical response.
One of these most likely played more hours.
It's telling that RCF is the only major PA manufacturer offering 2-way loudspeakers that combine a crossover frequency of 700 Hz with extremely high SPLs.
One of these most likely played more hours.
It's telling that RCF is the only major PA manufacturer offering 2-way loudspeakers that combine a crossover frequency of 700 Hz with extremely high SPLs.
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It's a pity RCF doesn't produce this waveguide in a 100° x 75° version, as that one would eliminate the pattern flip intrinsically linked to 100° x 50° coverage angles.
Btw, 45 Hz ÷ 20000 Hz & Max. SPL @ 1M: 134 dB is nothing to sneeze at, considering we're dealing with 10" drivers here (Crossover: 900Hz).
Btw, 45 Hz ÷ 20000 Hz & Max. SPL @ 1M: 134 dB is nothing to sneeze at, considering we're dealing with 10" drivers here (Crossover: 900Hz).
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The contribution of the LF section to the pattern flip in above diagram seems to be worse than that of the waveguide.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles