Influence of the delay amplifiers for listening characteristics

[Federmann]

Delays and output phase can be easily measured.

 

[jan.didden]

Delays and output phase can be easily measured.

Yes of course. So?
Are you concerned with the audibility of phase shift or delay?

jd

 

[Federmann]

Yes of course. So?
Are you concerned with the audibility of phase shift or delay?

jd

Delayed output voltage is compared with the input voltage in the differential stage. Long delays mean big Vdif.

 

[PMA]

You have not replied the question asked by Jan.

 

[Federmann]

Two topology, 100kHz to see when it will Vdif in non-linear region.

Amplification without feedback

Output Phase

Vdif

Graphs to illustrate.

 

[PMA]

EVERYONE here knows that input error differential voltage increases as loopgain (feedback) at high frequencies is decreased. Jan has asked you if you are concerned of audibility of time delays, or phase shifts.

 

[jan.didden]

Delayed output voltage is compared with the input voltage in the differential stage. Long delays mean big Vdif.

Yes, agreed. That is why the feedback gets less effective at higher frequencies. So?
I'm not listening to Vdiff, am I? Are you suggesting that this Vdiff can be 'heard' in some way?

jd

 

[MJL21193]

Two topology, 100kHz to see when it will Vdif in non-linear region.

Amplification without feedback

Output Phase

Vdif

I can't see any of these attachments, and I can't connect to them directly. Why?

 

[jan.didden]

I can't see any of these attachments, and I can't connect to them directly. Why?

I can see them, all of them.

jd

 

[Federmann]

Yes, agreed. That is why the feedback gets less effective at higher frequencies. So?
I'm not listening to Vdiff, am I? Are you suggesting that this Vdiff can be 'heard' in some way?

jd

Me on the phase shift brought Vdif.

For sinus:

Vdif = input voltage * (sine phase shift)
Vdif = V(a) * (sine phase shift)
(sine phase shift) indicates the profit margin AU*- AU, while decreasing the profit margin grows and grows Vdif phase shift.

Output voltage = Vdif * AU*
V(c) = Vdif * AU*

AU* = gain without feedback
AU = Amplification Amplifiers

In the phase shift is included AU*, AU, SR and V(c)
When Vdif in the non-linear, there is IMD. Something I wrote here and here

I do not mean. Angle shows the conditions in the amplifier. Charcoal tell when a disturbance that is heard. Setting missing values.

 

[MJL21193]

I can't any of his attachments, anywhere. I can't connect to the site they originate from. Odd.

 

[Federmann]

I can't any of his attachments, anywhere. I can't connect to the site they originate from. Odd.

View attachment 151242

here

 

[jan.didden]

Federmann, do you mean that because of the increase in Vdiff, there is an increase in distortion?

If so, I don't think I agree. The increased Vdiff is in fact the result of original signal not completely cancelled by the feedback, because the feedback signal is phase-shifted.

Look at it this way. Suppose the amplifier has a certain distortion, without feedback. Now you apply feedback. For low frequencies, where the feedback signal is in phase with the original signal, the distortion is greatly reduced. At higher frequencies, the feedback is less effective (lower loop gain), so the distortion reduction is less, and the Vdiff is larger. But I don't think you can say that the Vdiff as such causes larger distortion, the distortion was there all along, before you applied feedback.

jd

 

[PMA]

As always. He answers questions he was not asked, and repeatedly posts same images that have nothing to do with the subject and with the questions. Boring, tiring, misleading, confusing.

 

[jan.didden]

As always. He answers questions he was not asked, and repeatedly posts same images that have nothing to do with the subject and with the questions. Boring, tiring, misleading, confusing.

It may be a language issue.

jd

 

[MJL21193]

here

Ah no, like I said, I can't connect directly to the site either.

 

[Federmann]

Federmann, do you mean that because of the increase in Vdiff, there is an increase in distortion?


jd

Amplification not only decreases the frequency but also with Vdif.

 

[Upupa Epops]

Two times, Federmann, I was ask you about load and voltage...but it is free, you are mistmaker...lost time with you...

 

[jan.didden]

Amplification not only decreases the frequency but also with Vdif.

Sorry, don't get it. Do you mean amplification decreases with frequency? Yes, after the -3dB point. Please show a freq response for your amplifier, Vout against frequency with constant Vin.

jd

 

[Federmann]

Look here Various Vdif