Sound Lab, Apogee (ribbon), KLH-9, Acoustat, Infinity Servo-Statik.....
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Lmao Wut!?
Don't sell yourself short! The wood working is probably the hardest part of design if you let the board guide you...The guys here will help you with whatever you need....you've literally already started your path to designing your own loudspeaker...the people here are waiting to help you make your choices...after your choices have been made and money spent on materials...the real hard part is actually assembling it. In short, we (the board) can tell you what to do, the real sophisticated stuff is the why and math and since behind the why...which you do not have to fully understand what so ever., at this point...just let the board guide you to the what...we enjoy it actually lol...you just need to decide on a configuration, the board will spend hours and hours on your behalf arguing drivers and then you get to pick....then they will spend more hours deciding on how to use said drivers (ie xo points, baffles etc etc)...helping others is a really strong point here, I oblige you to indulge in the kindness expressed here, its not like this at other forums.
You aren't going to get a better system than the one that is designed personally for you...let the board do that for you...then you get to used you woodworking skills to piece together something beautiful and unique...you won't regret it!
Someone started a list once for begining process...a list of criteria if you will..
Desired spl
Desired Bandwidth
Listening distance
Size limitations
Desired Config (2way, 3way, mtm, High Efficiency 2.5way TMM....... etc)
off the top of my head...if you are a master wood worker like you say....buying a kit is the last thing you should be doing, what a mistake. You desire a Be tweeter...if its possible to get a Be tweeter down low enough to cross to an 8" woofer....thats an awesome start already...if not....a 6" is the norm...under that place a 15"...its not complicated. Notice I am not getting caught up name brands and models....physics care more about displacement. With your budget, there are plenty of options...the guys here will model the drivers for you and find box volumes, help you figure out dimension that lean towards desired height and width etc etc....there are likely premade crossovers for 2way and 3ways that we can work around for the driver choosing...you've tapped into a really healthy resource of knowledge and you are looking for a premade kit while you are sitting on master wood working skills...don't under estimate yourself or this board.
yeah yeah you are preaching to choir and we hear you....but are you listening to what I am trying to tell you? 1+8+15 might or might not fly depending on how low the BE tweeter can get.... but 1+6+15 is old news....If you let go of the BE tweeter you get to have a 15" midbass with a horn tweeter in a simple two way. Either way, don't buy a kit. Let us help you make the speaker. Help us....help you....lol!
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Camplo speaks wise words... The cabinet construction part is the most daunting part of the job for most people coming into speaker building. Woodworking tools are very expensive compared to modern acoustic measurement tools. For a few hundred dollars, you could assemble the necessary measurement equipment to make good measurements of your drivers and your finished system. People on this site will bend over backwards to help you optimize your design.
Incorporating a Hypex DSP crossover / N-core amplifier into your system will make the design and development process easier.
I may have been too negative about the standard box-design shape. A very low diffraction baffle is important to ME. It may not be important to everyone. We all hear a little differently, and I seem to be sensitive to diffraction in the horizontal plane. Other people are highly sensitive to room-modes in the bass range. Some people really like a narrow controlled directivity (I like wide dispersion in my room). We all hear things differently and we all have different rooms.
If you want to stick with an existing design, the OSMC is worthy of a strong consideration, either in the original format or the tower version.
Incorporating a Hypex DSP crossover / N-core amplifier into your system will make the design and development process easier.
I may have been too negative about the standard box-design shape. A very low diffraction baffle is important to ME. It may not be important to everyone. We all hear a little differently, and I seem to be sensitive to diffraction in the horizontal plane. Other people are highly sensitive to room-modes in the bass range. Some people really like a narrow controlled directivity (I like wide dispersion in my room). We all hear things differently and we all have different rooms.
If you want to stick with an existing design, the OSMC is worthy of a strong consideration, either in the original format or the tower version.
EXCLUSIVE model2402
Something like this nice "bookshelf" design gets my vote considering your objectives.
With your budget, you can certainly pull this off, with some helpful component guidance from the boys around here.
Something like this nice "bookshelf" design gets my vote considering your objectives.
With your budget, you can certainly pull this off, with some helpful component guidance from the boys around here.
^^ yes, see the Asathor thread Asathor - a JBL 4367 Clone
Before you (or anyone) considers going this path, you need to make sure you like the sound of a large format 2-way horn speaker. For some, this is the apex of speaker technology. For others, not so much.
Before you (or anyone) considers going this path, you need to make sure you like the sound of a large format 2-way horn speaker. For some, this is the apex of speaker technology. For others, not so much.
I recently pulled the trigger on the CNO Grande project and have started gathering parts. I haven't heard the speakers before, but my current speakers have Seas U18RNX/P drivers in a transmission line and I really dig their sound. The W18NX003 might sound somewhat similar (FR looks eerily similar), or they might not, we'll see.
I managed to get a good deal on the W18NX003 and the W12CY006, which are a significant portion of the speakers' cost. Otherwise it would've been hard to justify. Still undecided which crossovers parts I'll go with.
What led to this design choice? Firstly, size. I needed floorstanders with a certain width, so massive back loaded horns were sadly out of the question. Secondly, I'm going from active biamped two way with a line level crossover to passive xo three way speakers. The first order crossover of that design has a certain appeal in terms of simplicity. Complicated crossovers are what steered me away from passive multi way speakers. This particular one is linear phrase too. Lastly, efficiency. I want to run low power class A amps, so every dB SPL per W is greatly appreciated.
This time however I'm getting the cabinet professionally built and finished, I'll just have to stuff the insides. I simply lack the time, tools and frankly also the skills to diy the cabinets this time. I believe it will be money well spent. Building electronic is a greater source of joy for me, so I'm skipping the woodworking. Different approach, but you gotta do what works for you.
I managed to get a good deal on the W18NX003 and the W12CY006, which are a significant portion of the speakers' cost. Otherwise it would've been hard to justify. Still undecided which crossovers parts I'll go with.
What led to this design choice? Firstly, size. I needed floorstanders with a certain width, so massive back loaded horns were sadly out of the question. Secondly, I'm going from active biamped two way with a line level crossover to passive xo three way speakers. The first order crossover of that design has a certain appeal in terms of simplicity. Complicated crossovers are what steered me away from passive multi way speakers. This particular one is linear phrase too. Lastly, efficiency. I want to run low power class A amps, so every dB SPL per W is greatly appreciated.
This time however I'm getting the cabinet professionally built and finished, I'll just have to stuff the insides. I simply lack the time, tools and frankly also the skills to diy the cabinets this time. I believe it will be money well spent. Building electronic is a greater source of joy for me, so I'm skipping the woodworking. Different approach, but you gotta do what works for you.
I realized I may have came off snide I've been working with wood all of my life. I have all the necessary tools already oh, and the ability to do just about anything with wood including bending it, Etc. This really is the simple part to me. But the science behind speaker design is so over my head it's not funny.
Desired spl ... 95 to 100db. 120db max
Desired Bandwidth ... 40 to 20
Listening distance ... 8ft
Size limitations.... under 6 feet tall
Desired Config .... 3 way, woofer with mid and high horns, or MTMWW
HIGH efficiency a must.
I'm thinking Pro Woofer, pro mid, and maybe AMT for highs.
AMT
18sound 8" mid
Kappalite 3012LF ... 3 way maybe?
Maybe go with the 3012, but use two 8" mids in a MTMW ...
Open to different highs.
Desired Bandwidth ... 40 to 20
Listening distance ... 8ft
Size limitations.... under 6 feet tall
Desired Config .... 3 way, woofer with mid and high horns, or MTMWW
HIGH efficiency a must.
I'm thinking Pro Woofer, pro mid, and maybe AMT for highs.
AMT
18sound 8" mid
Kappalite 3012LF ... 3 way maybe?
Maybe go with the 3012, but use two 8" mids in a MTMW ...
Open to different highs.
actually it is funny that somebody who already built, if I remember right, 7 different speaker kits, had tens of thousands dollars only in cables never spent couple of months to investigate and learn how those loudspeakers work and invest no more than 500 $ in decent measurement system, especially last 10 - 15 years when everything (almost) could be learned from this and similar forums
Bear in mind that high efficiency speakers will reveal any residual system hum and noise much more
than low efficiency ones, unless the power amp has relatively low gain, and is itself quiet.
A well designed low power class A amp will help in this regard, as you mentioned.
What source/preamp/amp will you use?
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and funny that you mention those drivers and size as I finished something similar couple months ago
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-baffle-gallery-341.html#post6669937
without subs for your desired SPL you will need longer stroke woofers (and probably one size bigger)
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-baffle-gallery-341.html#post6669937
without subs for your desired SPL you will need longer stroke woofers (and probably one size bigger)
For those struggling with my lack of design capabilities .... after my injury, I've suffered greatly from learning disabilities in certain subjects. Is THIS explanation enough? Are details about the accident needed?
Yeezus, enough!
There are things I can do, most can't dream of doing. LEARNING new technology is not one of them.
Yeezus, enough!
There are things I can do, most can't dream of doing. LEARNING new technology is not one of them.
New, to me that is. My mind won't allow me to make the 6 figures I used to make either. Someone sent me a simple explanation of BSC last night .... I've studied for hours, and am just now being able to get my mind to cooperate.
LUCKILY, I had learned woodworking 25 years before the accident. Have always been able to do this.
LUCKILY, I had learned woodworking 25 years before the accident. Have always been able to do this.
Thank you. No offense taken. I just figured it was time I had to divulge this information, where people could maybe understand my struggle compared to most. You can't imagine how badly I would like to be a very competent speaker builder. I've been trying in the shadows to learn this for years. I'm finally about to make a push.
And I appreciate ALL of you for replying! I learn a lot by reading different people's ways of saying things. I'm also aware I came across pretty frustrated a few times. I know I should let this go, but I am still shocked such high-end designs are available as kits, and are so compromised so. I thought I was right ready to go LOL.
It sure does stink. I used to have almost Limitless capabilities when I put my mind to something. Mine came in the form of a car wreck. I wrecked into someone as we both tried to avoid another car out of control. He and I became friends in the ICU. He was out of his head, talking something about Linn Audio using Hiquifon tweeters. I suddenly perked up, as I was an avid audio hifi nut... I couldn't wait for him to come off the meds! We've been friends since.
Did we mention the Calpamos already?
If you’re out for 120dB SPL at listening distance, horn tweeters become the preferred choice, since ‘naked’ dome tweeters will always struggle at such levels. You might not be interested in 20kHz that much anymore, albeit the Calpamos gets there on axis. I think a studio monitor-like design might fit the bill here.
If you’re out for 120dB SPL at listening distance, horn tweeters become the preferred choice, since ‘naked’ dome tweeters will always struggle at such levels. You might not be interested in 20kHz that much anymore, albeit the Calpamos gets there on axis. I think a studio monitor-like design might fit the bill here.
Are you sure? The Kappalites are monsters. Way overachieving normal Pro 12 woofers. Most say they hang with good 15s easily.
I only want flat to 40ish. With a very sharp filter set at 34hz, and a touch of boost below 40, mid 30s in room is a given.