I am SO blessed every day! I'm always aware how well I have it still. I did indeed have a dream job, with keys to the place. I am thankful.
I think you could easily forego buying the crossover networks and instead install Speakerpower or Hypex DSP amplifiers for far less money. What I don't understand is why you ask us what speaker kit to buy. If you're seriously going to spend $4k on a kit I'm fairly sure you already have your mind made up. Personally I wouldn't buy any of those kits but that's me.
Thank you. I think we're way past this now. Of course I could just get active DSP. I wouldn't learn too much about the science this way. And obviously my mind wasn't made up, or I would have already sent my money to a company. I asked on here not out of insecurities but where I could make the best decision. A lot of good people have helped me steer clear of bad decisions already
Awesome. If you're really interested in learning the science I suggest you read about crossover design, make yourself a little two way box with an 8 and a 1" and tinker a bit. Eventually you're going to come a better understanding about this sort of thing, but hey, I've been playing at speaker design for near 35 years now and still find it to be daunting. I hope the best for you and wasn't trying to sound like a snide jerk at all.
I seem to have had the best luck designing enclosures as narrow as possible and still fit the driver on the baffle. Deep seems to work well, and for really nice results, a coaxial driver avoids a lot of hf diffractions problems. Keep in mind that you're going to want to put your tweeter (if not using a coaxial driver) as close as possible to the mid-bass driver - no more apart from the acoustic centers than the actual length of the sound wave at crossover frequency. The hard part is figuring out how to make your acoustic center of the tweeter and mid-bass be identical. There are a lot of designers who build small enclosures for each driver and simply set the hf box back a little bit (Vandersteen, Watt, etc.)
Mark,
Nice points but…
Notice how a polar plot and/or highly detailed horizontal and vertical off axis curves are missing in that Calpamos pdf. Wonder why
Horn/Waveguide construction dominates these types of 2 way designs. It’s really everything or nothing. And it isn’t easy. The P-Audio biradial horn doesn’t look amazing from what I see and a Thai copy from what I recall. The SEOS waveguides look much better.
For the money that needs to be addressed first irrespective of the cost of the drivers used.
I do agree with you that 2 way studio monitor like designs with compression tweeters may fit the bill here, although the OSMC mentioned earlier would probably work well.
120dB SPL is VERY LOUD! I’ve listened to Geddes, JBL M2, Danley Synergy etc…and even then I rarely ever went past 100dB nominal for more than a few seconds! All really great speakers!
Best,
Anand.
Beyma tpl 150h is a popular Amt...it can be crossed to a 12" I believe...There are more than a few people who really like 12" mid. You could definitely cross it to an 8". With a MTMW there could be a potential for issues between the top M and the bottom W.
After my time studying configurations, I believe a High efficiency 2.5way TMM to be an "apex" config... A 15" two way is for sure an Apex config. Geddes used a 15" with a waveguide...Strauss mf 2.1 is a constant directivity horn with a 15". Those are two different examples of "perfect" speakers. a 2.5way TMM opens up driver options I think, but you must stay with large high efficiency drivers...maybe no less than a 12"? So lets say you picked the beyma to be the star of the show...placing two 12" drivers below it seals the deal on excursion caused distortion issues. With the right driver choices this can be versatile in that maybe you want to try it as a traditionally crossed 3 way...you can....maybe you want to try it as a large format MTM.....you can. I feel that the TMM 2.5 way config will be satisfying on most levels though.
once you decide on a config, just ask what are the pros and cons...we love to play devils advocate lol. A 3 way will always be a staple in design...a 3way will be choice if you go with smaller drivers, seperate bass excursion from the midrange expression. The thing to remember is that a 15" two way can handle most of everything with no help from a sub in a lot (but not all) cases. 2 - 12" in 2.5way TMM will give you similar (slightly higher actually) displacement in the region where they both play together while allowing you to cross a little higher than a 15", while a 2.5way tries to retain a sonic signature closer to a two way...A large driver 3 way....I can't really find fault with it, maybe having a slightly taller (larger) sound signature than a 2way or 2.5way? one more step removed from a single point source is what I mean...I bet no one with a large format 3 way is complaining is my point. Its just the idea that when you move into the large woofer and compression driver area, less channels are needed to get the job done, creating a tighter image. If you end up with a 15" plus horn or a 15" plus waveguide, with the guidance of this board, you will likely find yourself very satisfied and with a better stereo than anyone you know...unless they also are a product of this board lol!!
To further push the point...my was sold after hearing some of my fav reference tracks on an Atlec two with horn and 15" woofer...which is somewhat under par of what you can put together with newer technology woofers of today...and the horn of that system could not handle the highs of electronic music BUT...as I just said...it was this simple experience that sold me on the power of; high efficiency large woofers and compression drivers, as well as the power of Directivity. Once you hear it....you can't go back lol. I've heard plenty of high power systems with tons of bass. Look at GM's signature quote to get the full picture.
To get the ball rolling....
Op says he wants a large format 3 way with possible horn top or Amt top....My first thought was the beyma 150tpl-H version
Anyone have any ideas for a top for him? I still want to know if any BE tweeter play low enough to cross to an 8"
ps- your wood working skills are really valuable...especially if you are able to turn your own waveguide out of wood!
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True. I just referred to a popular design which would be good enough. There are better horns, even among the usual suspects. Point is: here ís a crossover available. And I am not convinced we can get the TS to measuring in a way that comes close to what experienced designers perform. So how does he get the basic measurements needed for fixing the crossover?
120dB peak means about 100-110dB average level, although music style is quite determining. The clue is, how much averaging did you apply on the peak measurements?
I have to agree, it’s not a level I enjoy for normal listening. It’s not an absurd requirement though.
True, instantaneous sound pressure levels can hit 120dB. And when they do, the speaker that has the least compression (for that short period of time, ie msec) will sound the cleanest. It is addictive! My ears do ring a little after and 75dB sounds much too quiet…not good!
With conventional speakers I stopped trying because it’s too excruciating to get there (very bright and compressed).
First time I experienced that lack of compression was in Geddes’ home. The rest is history.
Best,
Anand.
With conventional speakers I stopped trying because it’s too excruciating to get there (very bright and compressed).
First time I experienced that lack of compression was in Geddes’ home. The rest is history.
Best,
Anand.
Monkey coffin is only a slang term some people use for speakers in its dimensions. Too me it looks like it fits your needs soundwise. You want high sensitivity which You may not need, but if you go for lower you might always wonder what if? I think high sensitivity is a plus.
Mbrennas pdf has all the dimensions for construkting it and I wouldnt advise you to design an expensive speaker yourself. Its much harder to get a good overall good result than some people makes it out to be. There are hundreds of deciding faktors, and huge disagreements on the forum about which are important. You can recieve lots of qualified help here, but it would take hard thinking to pick hot from snot��
I havent heard Osmb, and I wouldnt build it before listening to one, so I urge you to go to its thread and ask if you could come for a visit.
I havent heard any of Troels designs either (How cool to be known worldwide just by ones first name �� Some of his designs look very sound to me. Expensive crossovers, but I prefer active aniways.
Have a great journey and cheers!
Mbrennas pdf has all the dimensions for construkting it and I wouldnt advise you to design an expensive speaker yourself. Its much harder to get a good overall good result than some people makes it out to be. There are hundreds of deciding faktors, and huge disagreements on the forum about which are important. You can recieve lots of qualified help here, but it would take hard thinking to pick hot from snot��
I havent heard Osmb, and I wouldnt build it before listening to one, so I urge you to go to its thread and ask if you could come for a visit.
I havent heard any of Troels designs either (How cool to be known worldwide just by ones first name ��
Some of his designs look very sound to me. Expensive crossovers, but I prefer active aniways. Have a great journey and cheers!
It misses the horn. And I don’t know about AC, compared to a pro company like Beyma. Could be a second B&G with endless consistency problems. Beyma also produces a bigger AMT by the way.
120dB isn’t that loud in main studio monitor design. Check out the big Genelecs, they do over 120dB average level and over 135 peak. A lot of high end systems struggle to reach 20dB lower levels.
120dB isn’t that loud in main studio monitor design. Check out the big Genelecs, they do over 120dB average level and over 135 peak. A lot of high end systems struggle to reach 20dB lower levels.
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The big Beyma TPL150 H are ok but lack air and detail. They can not march a good 1 or 1.4" compression driver for silky smooth response.
I have used both the standard 150 and 150H and found them lacking.