Yes Ralf. ...In Canada we use the metric 'composure' system. ...A mix of feet and hertz.
16Hz, and 8Hz; can a turntable reproduce them?
Oh, the wanton glare of digital... :O
An experiment every vinyl fan should try is to record the output of the turntable using some sort of good quality ADC and then play it back digitally. It sounds pretty much identical. One Stereophile reviewer (FWIW 🙂 ) used a CD recording deck to compare high-end turntables this way.
As this experiment shows (or would show if you believed it) the problem with digital isn't the limitations of the format. It doesn't have any. The problem is the source material and how it's mastered. When you say "vinyl is better than CD", perhaps you really mean that the music and production values of the vinyl era were better than the CD era.
Hang on to those jazz records from the 70s because you'll never get anything like them in digital format, unless you rip them to digital files yourself. Probably not a bad idea to save wearing them out.
An experiment every vinyl fan should try is to record the output of the turntable using some sort of good quality ADC and then play it back digitally. It sounds pretty much identical. One Stereophile reviewer (FWIW 🙂 ) used a CD recording deck to compare high-end turntables this way.
As this experiment shows (or would show if you believed it) the problem with digital isn't the limitations of the format. It doesn't have any. The problem is the source material and how it's mastered. When you say "vinyl is better than CD", perhaps you really mean that the music and production values of the vinyl era were better than the CD era.
Hang on to those jazz records from the 70s because you'll never get anything like them in digital format, unless you rip them to digital files yourself. Probably not a bad idea to save wearing them out.
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Political postings and related fall out removed. READ THE RULES
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I dont own any vynil records , gave them to my sister . Why would you want a media that deteriorates overtime ? i still own my first cd " Iron Maiden -Somewhere in time " in mint condition after 25 years of intense playing . Digital with the right dac and a well mastered record can sound better than vynil , not to mention high sample rate files and the new solid state drives that will be the best media yet.
Analog cassetes or reel to reel could be it but they also deteriorate overtime.
Dont get me wrong , i like listening to a vynil record , theres something special in it , but it´s not the best sounding media around , no way.
Analog cassetes or reel to reel could be it but they also deteriorate overtime.
Dont get me wrong , i like listening to a vynil record , theres something special in it , but it´s not the best sounding media around , no way.
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Yes! You need to have a dynamically very rigid system coupled to the external world and between the essential components at highly subsonic frequency, as low as possible. In that way not only you can reproduce 8 or 16 Hz but he entire spectrum will be vibration free, any internal resonance ERADICATED, anti-skating issue not known etc. etc.
In picture how far one can go but it is possible to improve MASSIVELY even with conventional and much, much cheaper stuff. All one needs to do is understand how it works and find the solution. It is not possible by trial and error....
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Hello NorthStar
You made me curious. Every city has one of those hearing centers where they have audio equipment to test ones hearing. I think I'll find out if I can hear a 16 Hz tone. The turn table (the cartridge) should not have any problems other than that you may not be able to hear the fundamentals. As I understand it, an organist will add the 8foot pitch not for the fundamental, which can't be heard anyway, but for the rich harmonic content which can be heard.
As an aside, I lived in Canada before they adopted the metric system. (Saskatchewan and New Brunswick) My son was born there.
Sincerely,
Ralf
You made me curious. Every city has one of those hearing centers where they have audio equipment to test ones hearing. I think I'll find out if I can hear a 16 Hz tone. The turn table (the cartridge) should not have any problems other than that you may not be able to hear the fundamentals. As I understand it, an organist will add the 8foot pitch not for the fundamental, which can't be heard anyway, but for the rich harmonic content which can be heard.
As an aside, I lived in Canada before they adopted the metric system. (Saskatchewan and New Brunswick) My son was born there.
Sincerely,
Ralf
The point about 8 and 16Hz tones is a good one and not as simple as it seems. Every turntable has a mechanical resonance between the compliance of the cartridge and the inertia of the tonearm. This gives it a 2nd order high pass characteristic. It probably cuts off somewhere between 8 and 16Hz.
Not every turntable. The one above in the picture sets the present limit. There is not resonance in that region between cartridge and arm simply because they form ONE body!
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They will be not much different of those in expensive equipment. Only thing they can do is.
Better power supply design.
Better clock
Better capacitors.
Or use output transformers.
And give the costumer the feeling buying the best for that price.
Better cd-drive
No. Go back and think carefully about how a turntable works.
The tonearm has to pivot freely at subsonic frequencies, otherwise the cartridge couldn't track warped and off-centre records. Or any records at all if you want to be pedantic: the inward motion of the spiral groove is just a subsonic signal with a very low frequency indeed, one cycle per record side.
But it has to behave as a rigid mass at audio frequencies, otherwise bass notes would just wiggle the tonearm instead of wiggling the stylus and generating audio output.
It follows that it can't be anything other than a second-order high pass filter, one that does a valuable job keeping subsonic signals out of your preamp.
Like any mass-spring system, it is indeed. Effective mass (of the cartridge and the tonearm, dominated by the cartridge and headshell mass) versus cartridge compliance.
Disregarding all the real or perceived sonic advantages it has, vinyl has become an antique, searched for in dark fogotten corners of junk shops. Perhaps 'antiquing' is part of the fun?
Modern vinyl is a D/A conversion.
Modern vinyl is a D/A conversion.
Wow , now we are at 8 hz , yep , you guys found something , maybe Sy will post a pic of his favorite toob amp passing an 8hz squarewave ..
Yeah ..😉
Yeah ..😉
The Katz is out of the bag ......
Anyway , good news , relief maybe at hand ....
Blog Posts | Production Advice
Anyway , good news , relief maybe at hand ....
Blog Posts | Production Advice
No, I think you should read more carefully.
Indeed the arm is free, it is the cartridge-arm coupling (i.e. resonance) that is removed because they make ONE body. How this is done is not something I can tell you for free for obvious reasons...but you could understand it and do it by yourself as I did.....Then you are only left with the cartridge compliance which doesn't couple to anything.
The only resonances in the system are below 1Hz in that turntable and can be below 3-4 Hz in simpler systems! All "filters" are LOW pass. In the working (audio) band and actually quite below and above the system is resonance free which means zero ideally and at a level much below the signal (or if you like such that the ratio is better than the required dynamic range, just like in a good amplifier). More importantly there is no correlation between noise and signal and this is not true for digital sources where "you have to inject noise to cure the disease"....!😀
MOSS in Italy. He is been making and improving turntables since the early '80s
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Also a Ferrari F40 could considered antique but if you ask the owners and those who drive it will think different! It still is THE supercar....!😀
Here is just the most recent example:
Ferrari F40 v Ferrari F50. Like You've Never Seen Them Before /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube
Why do you listen to music? For work?
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