How better is a Turntable compared to a CD?

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This is a VERY subjective topic.

If you have a MASTER COPY of a vinyl LP and a BROADCAST QUALITY turntable, with an exceptional PHONO PRE-AMP, then it is possible that you might prefer the VINYL sound to that of a CD player.

OLD VINYL will usually be damaged and will not be at its best. Damaged stylii may well have damaged the original vinyl surface leading to crackles and scratches.

CDs on the other hand are more predictable and even a modest CD player can reproduce reasonable audio from one.

YES, there are HIGH-END CD Players that will cost you £000's of pounds, my ARCAM CD36 is an entry level HIGH-END player at some £3000,

On a budget then look at a Marantz CD63 and have it upgraded.

This will be a surer bet than a LINN LP12 with HIGH-END PSU and TONE-ARM.

However, if money is of no problem, then top quality audio may well come from a HIGH-END turntable.
 
This is a VERY subjective topic.

If you have a MASTER COPY of a vinyl LP and a BROADCAST QUALITY turntable, with an exceptional PHONO PRE-AMP, then it is possible that you might prefer the VINYL sound to that of a CD player.

OLD VINYL will usually be damaged and will not be at its best. Damaged stylii may well have damaged the original vinyl surface leading to crackles and scratches.

CDs on the other hand are more predictable and even a modest CD player can reproduce reasonable audio from one.

YES, there are HIGH-END CD Players that will cost you £000's of pounds, my ARCAM CD36 is an entry level HIGH-END player at some £3000,

On a budget then look at a Marantz CD63 and have it upgraded.

This will be a surer bet than a LINN LP12 with HIGH-END PSU and TONE-ARM.

However, if money is of no problem, then top quality audio may well come from a HIGH-END turntable.


This is very true.....however I've chosen for an SME30 turntable with SME-V arm and a VdH colibri pickup.
This setup with Peter Daniel's pre is simply pulverising all CD players I've auditioned so far and I've listened to some pretty exotic stuff.
'
On the other hand The SME is pretty exotic too and does come with a price tag. Basically buy new mid-size car or a vinyl player.........
 
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I'm not sure if it is common knowledge. MOST manufacturers sell products under a number of different product names.

Philips produce one of the best CD transport systems going, used by some serious HIGH-END manufacturers.

Every manufacturer has to make money by selling, most achieve this with low-end products.

IMHO BMW have ruined their reputatation with the 100 Series, it just does not compare with their executive ranges.

Philips amongst others have separated their low-end ranges from their HIGH-END ranges by giving them a different brand name.

MARANTZ is, or used to be, the HIGH-END of PHILIPS.

Above this is MARANTZ SE (Special Equipment). This is why Marantz equipment is readily upgraded to a VERY HIGH standard at a very reasonable cost.

Samsung produce Fisher. Mitsubishi produce Panasonic.
 
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In the VINYL world you will always be at the mercy of the VINYL. Vinyl is easily damaged by rubbish equipment.

CD's, despite their hype, are not indestructible, nor are they beyond casual damge. But, treated reasonably, they will remain playable at SUPER-Fi level.

In the CD World, it is not the choice of the medium, but the choice of equipment.

In the VYNYL World it is the choice of the medium AND the choice of equipment.
 
In the VINYL world you will always be at the mercy of the VINYL. Vinyl is easily damaged by rubbish equipment.

In the CD world you will always be at the mercy of the Mastering Engineer and the CD loudness wars. You can do things with CD waveforms that you can't with Vinyl.

Like this:

[IMGDEAD]http://www.cutestudio.net/data/products/audio/CD_clipping/cd-bep-whats-goin.png[/IMGDEAD]

A typical CD contains peaks like this:
[IMGDEAD]http://www.cutestudio.net/data/products/audio/CD_clipping/cd-tears-seg-normalised.png[/IMGDEAD]

Because of that you are at the mercy of your DAC's overload characteristic and you listen to compressed clipped music free of dynamics. Listen carefully: everything's at the same volume. Even if you turn it up, EVERYTHING'S STILL AT THE SAME VOLUME.

A decent Vinyl LP will make you jump, I never jump with CDs - the dynamics simply aren't there after the music gets out of the compressor on the mastering desk. Some music simply sounds stupid on CD - Kaiser Chiefs etc - the guys get to the crescendo and you can hear the volume deflating as the compressor makes it the same volume as everything else.

Digital should be so good, it should be error corrected 24bit 96kHz. Instead it's an error prone and coarse 16bit 44.1kHz designed for electronics of decades ago. In fact IMO CDs are so bad now people tend to stick with MP3s because they can't notice the difference: With a decent format that may have been different.
 

rg12

Member
2010-08-10 3:52 am
Globulator: You brought up my motivation again for the vinyl world!

I started thinking about that when i saw a good deal on a Thornes TD-160 for about $130 (everything in Israel is so expensive, so that i think it's
a pretty good deal, doesn't it?).
 
rg12,
IMHO, I think you can beat even a good cd player with a modest expenditure in vinyl. CD has its advantages but the dynamics, spacial cues, and detail are pale in comparison to vinyl. There are some very good inexpensive cartridges out there and some seriously good DIY phono preamp designs listed on the forum here to get you well on your way. All can be had for the price of a set of good tires for a midrange car if you spend and build wisely.

Salas has an extremely very good riaa preamp and will support it, but it is pure DIY and you will learn during the build. That was a GREAT experience for me. I see Peter Daniels also has a pcb available and would assume he would help as well.
 

rg12

Member
2010-08-10 3:52 am
rg12,
IMHO, I think you can beat even a good cd player with a modest expenditure in vinyl. CD has its advantages but the dynamics, spacial cues, and detail are pale in comparison to vinyl. There are some very good inexpensive cartridges out there and some seriously good DIY phono preamp designs listed on the forum here to get you well on your way. All can be had for the price of a set of good tires for a midrange car if you spend and build wisely.

Salas has an extremely very good riaa preamp and will support it, but it is pure DIY and you will learn during the build. That was a GREAT experience for me. I see Peter Daniels also has a pcb available and would assume he would help as well.

What is considered a low price for a good cartridge?

Could you please direct me to places i can find these preamps?
are you talking about schematics or kits?
I don't mind kits, but i really don't have time to start building one
from scratch with a schematic.

What is the cost of a good quality phono preamp?
How is it exactly connected? from the turntable to the phono preamp
and to the aux?
How bad is the built in preamp in the phono connection in a Pioneer
SA-7300 integrated amp?

What about the vinyl constant hiss when playing? does it compensate
so much with the sound quality, that people don't mind it?
 
I don't have hiss in my system. unless the vinyl is bad. You CAN find alot of good used vinyl if you check them before you buy.

I have a Denon 103R which is a low ouput MC so a high gain preamp is a must. I built the simplistic that is in this forum. Several people can chime in but a Moving Magnet that I hear alot about is the audio technica. That could plug into you Pioneer phono connection. I don't know about its (the pioneers phono preamp) quality however. I you hear hiss without a turntable playing it probably isn't too good. Peter Daniels system may be a kit, someone need to chime in and comment on this as well. I know the boards are available.

the 103R will be 250US. Audio technica is about the same if not cheaper.
I have several hundred US in my preamp but it is a bit over the top. could be built for alot cheaper. Typically the turbtable is plugged into the phono preamp and then into a line level input on the integrated amp, or the preamp of a seperate system.
 

rg12

Member
2010-08-10 3:52 am
When you say audio technica, i guess there are many models,
because the seller of the Thornes TD160 i will maybe buy, is selling
the turntable with an audio technica cartridge.

Do cartridges lose their quality over time?

Thanks for the replys so far, you guys are a real help.
 
The best Vinyl played on the best equipment will sound better than the same music on a SACD being played on the best equipment.

All that may change as new HiRez formats and mastering methods are adopted, however as of today, Vinyl can (and often does) smoke CDs.

BTW: We haven't even considered R2R tapes played at 15 or 30 ips, which are far ahead of either!

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Most LP's i can get are very old, can they have better quality then a cd?
What about new LP's? I have seen this one of Norah Jones in a LP version,
how better can it sound?

IMO it can't. Best LP I ever heard was pathetic compared to the best CD. Surface noise, ticks, pops, hole off center, HF mistracking even with really good cartridges, stylus wearout, disc wearout, no bass below 32 Hz. Who would volunteer to use that? Analog is insane.

 

rg12

Member
2010-08-10 3:52 am
IMO it can't. Best LP I ever heard was pathetic compared to the best CD. Surface noise, ticks, pops, hole off center, HF mistracking even with really good cartridges, stylus wearout, disc wearout, no bass below 32 Hz. Who would volunteer to use that? Analog is insane.


Hmm...
I was worried about the thing with the bass...
Very hard to judge with two contradicting opinions like that.
 
IMO it can't. Best LP I ever heard was pathetic compared to the best CD. Surface noise, ticks, pops, hole off center, HF mistracking even with really good cartridges, stylus wearout, disc wearout, no bass below 32 Hz. Who would volunteer to use that? Analog is insane.


Have you ever seen asbestos through a polarized light microscope? In a word it can be beautiful with vivid colors. http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhouse/asbestos/TremoliteDF10.jpg The same structure imaged with a scanning electron microscope is just a chunk of stuff. It depends what you are looking for. http://serc.carleton.edu/images/research_education/geochemsheets/techniques/asbestos_3.jpg In the case of vinyl vs CD there is beauty in vinyl and a CD is just paint by numbers.
I have ripped vinyl to 24 X 192 digital. Much of the magic continues to live in the digital realm. Unless you rolling down the road with the windows open compressed CD ‘s suck.
How it is HD video has improved as it has and HD radio sounds like MP3’s?
For a decent entry level RIAA equalization network try out this Hagerman Technology LLC: Bugle Opamp Moving Magnet Budget Phonostage DIY Kit .

DT
All just for fun!
 
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