Hello,
That is the one i posted a few days ago.
The amps they make look more like gear. I consider le monstre a bit more than just gear.
It is a bit like soup from a can with just water added and soup that was allowed to simmer overnight.
If you dont get it/this you should just decide not to build a le monstre.
With a choke input added there will a nice cleavage to enjoy while eating.
Greetings, Eduard
That is the one i posted a few days ago.
The amps they make look more like gear. I consider le monstre a bit more than just gear.
It is a bit like soup from a can with just water added and soup that was allowed to simmer overnight.
If you dont get it/this you should just decide not to build a le monstre.
With a choke input added there will a nice cleavage to enjoy while eating.
Greetings, Eduard
Hello,
You buy home made cheese at your neighbors farm and you combine it with expired crackers from Aldi.
I just found a French website with 14 pages on le monstre amp published recently.
Nice to see after some decades ( when Hiraga used chokes in other designs) they are convinced this little amp likes chokes as well.
Greetings, Eduard
You buy home made cheese at your neighbors farm and you combine it with expired crackers from Aldi.
I just found a French website with 14 pages on le monstre amp published recently.
Nice to see after some decades ( when Hiraga used chokes in other designs) they are convinced this little amp likes chokes as well.
Greetings, Eduard
Attachments
Hello,
Every friday i always collect the left over bread from my co workers and me. Every week it is a big collection. I feed it to two horses that i meet when cycling home. Usually they eat slower than the speed at wich i am throwing it over the fence but whenever i throw the bread not coming from an industrial bakery but from a real bakery they will go for that one first. So please go ahead with your smps lol
Greetings, Eduard
P.s on my trip to Cameroon 4 years ago i had a vision, your Hiraga and its power supply as a wooden floor being transported. It is up to you if the car or the driver represents the power supply
Every friday i always collect the left over bread from my co workers and me. Every week it is a big collection. I feed it to two horses that i meet when cycling home. Usually they eat slower than the speed at wich i am throwing it over the fence but whenever i throw the bread not coming from an industrial bakery but from a real bakery they will go for that one first. So please go ahead with your smps lol
Greetings, Eduard
P.s on my trip to Cameroon 4 years ago i had a vision, your Hiraga and its power supply as a wooden floor being transported. It is up to you if the car or the driver represents the power supply
Attachments
I do like people who think they have the perfect answer to everything.
Alot of people here have tried running class a designs like John lindley hood from smps, with very good results, the constant current draw is just up smps alley, off course switching noise must be perfectly filtered, I tried smps with a matched pi filter and noise was unmeasurable with my fluke dmi, and my scope could hardly pick up any noise on fft, so I'm optimistic that the result will match choke psu.
Alot of people here have tried running class a designs like John lindley hood from smps, with very good results, the constant current draw is just up smps alley, off course switching noise must be perfectly filtered, I tried smps with a matched pi filter and noise was unmeasurable with my fluke dmi, and my scope could hardly pick up any noise on fft, so I'm optimistic that the result will match choke psu.
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More Bias
so bascially you need more bias to make sure the horse can blow out it's pipes and play music?
so bascially you need more bias to make sure the horse can blow out it's pipes and play music?
...pretty interesting to recall that Grand Old Man Hiraga used huge batteries for most of his listening...
Good modern inverter batteries, (backed by solar panels, if you live in sunny climes!), could prove to be an ideal power source, IMHO...
Good modern inverter batteries, (backed by solar panels, if you live in sunny climes!), could prove to be an ideal power source, IMHO...
Hello,
In the eighties i have used a moving coil cartridge amp designed by Jean Hiraga. There were a few options . As usual the difference was the power supply. Mine used sealed lead batteries, 470.000 uF caps and a 1F supercap and a charger that i would switch on once a month.Current running was something like 3/4/5 mA.
LE MONSTRE used also a sealed lead battery that was kind of charged using the same voltage that was charging the caps. After switching of your amp the batteries would kind of go uncharged like the power supply caps?
There are batteries that dont like deep discharges. I dont remember they used something to stop this from happening.
After some time there was a well respected member who published regularly in the French magazine that also published the Hiraga designs. He described a design that used car? batteries to give a LE MONSTRE its juice. It had a charger and would allow you to listen for a few hours before charging again. Nowadays there are batteries than can be discharged to a lower level BUT it depends on the used technology.
My 2.1 '' home cinema amp '' I use it for this but in fact it is high quality stereo integrated amp) was delivered with a 24 volt dc supply in a separate '' box '' The designer himself said this supply ( smps probably) will work but spending 100$ will already be an improvement. It uses a single rail power supply so i made an CLC supply with parts from my attic. Clearly better but i needed more so i bought 2 12 volt sealed lead batteries to get 24 volts. Certainly more spacious sound. After a few years couldnt keep their charge so i bought new ones with higher AH rating. It sounded better than the already degraded old ones but not sure if i would have been able to distinguish between the big and the super big if they would have been both new. Of course deep inside you expect it to be better but.
During a 10 week holiday the super big batteries went bad. It used an intelligent charger but during the slow discharge for a long time the charger did not start charging again. it would have done that only if the charger would have been switched of for a minute or so once every few days.
Because during the last years i gathered some experience using choke input supplies for gear using higher current than the typical tube gear i use i decided to try not an CLC but a LCLC with the right chokes. Any case a big input choke as you can see in a post a few days back. At that time the LL2771 was not available yet but i bought two chokes from a Belgian member here and used a LL2733 as second choke. To my surprise this cheaper power sounded more powerful than the big 77AH batteries that could deliver peaks of 800A for a duration of 5 seconds. Two batteries were like 500 euro a pair and the new power supply was cheaper because some parts already bought. I might try a big LL2771 in the future after my big stereo is finished.
As written before by another member LE MONSTRE needs to have equal voltage on both sides of the supply.
There have been developments in battery technology but you have to take care of how you are going to use them.
Same with the latest ultracaps. BIG problem there is limiting the initial current but solutions are available.
Could be nice to try these:
https://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/PowerStor-Eaton/XVM-16R2656-R?qs=JUaLNLaZVXYJ/QBssI7LKw==
Greetings, Eduard
In the eighties i have used a moving coil cartridge amp designed by Jean Hiraga. There were a few options . As usual the difference was the power supply. Mine used sealed lead batteries, 470.000 uF caps and a 1F supercap and a charger that i would switch on once a month.Current running was something like 3/4/5 mA.
LE MONSTRE used also a sealed lead battery that was kind of charged using the same voltage that was charging the caps. After switching of your amp the batteries would kind of go uncharged like the power supply caps?
There are batteries that dont like deep discharges. I dont remember they used something to stop this from happening.
After some time there was a well respected member who published regularly in the French magazine that also published the Hiraga designs. He described a design that used car? batteries to give a LE MONSTRE its juice. It had a charger and would allow you to listen for a few hours before charging again. Nowadays there are batteries than can be discharged to a lower level BUT it depends on the used technology.
My 2.1 '' home cinema amp '' I use it for this but in fact it is high quality stereo integrated amp) was delivered with a 24 volt dc supply in a separate '' box '' The designer himself said this supply ( smps probably) will work but spending 100$ will already be an improvement. It uses a single rail power supply so i made an CLC supply with parts from my attic. Clearly better but i needed more so i bought 2 12 volt sealed lead batteries to get 24 volts. Certainly more spacious sound. After a few years couldnt keep their charge so i bought new ones with higher AH rating. It sounded better than the already degraded old ones but not sure if i would have been able to distinguish between the big and the super big if they would have been both new. Of course deep inside you expect it to be better but.
During a 10 week holiday the super big batteries went bad. It used an intelligent charger but during the slow discharge for a long time the charger did not start charging again. it would have done that only if the charger would have been switched of for a minute or so once every few days.
Because during the last years i gathered some experience using choke input supplies for gear using higher current than the typical tube gear i use i decided to try not an CLC but a LCLC with the right chokes. Any case a big input choke as you can see in a post a few days back. At that time the LL2771 was not available yet but i bought two chokes from a Belgian member here and used a LL2733 as second choke. To my surprise this cheaper power sounded more powerful than the big 77AH batteries that could deliver peaks of 800A for a duration of 5 seconds. Two batteries were like 500 euro a pair and the new power supply was cheaper because some parts already bought. I might try a big LL2771 in the future after my big stereo is finished.
As written before by another member LE MONSTRE needs to have equal voltage on both sides of the supply.
There have been developments in battery technology but you have to take care of how you are going to use them.
Same with the latest ultracaps. BIG problem there is limiting the initial current but solutions are available.
Could be nice to try these:
https://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/PowerStor-Eaton/XVM-16R2656-R?qs=JUaLNLaZVXYJ/QBssI7LKw==
Greetings, Eduard
5 miliamp ? Why not try this 
Ps backing potatoes for true highend.
After depletion feed them to horses, they like them.
Ps backing potatoes for true highend.
After depletion feed them to horses, they like them.
Attachments
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Strange situation with my Monstre, dc offset was drifting over 0.6 volts over the warm up period, and I was not able to adjust it to bring it down. I swapped the two fets and the problem was removed. Luckilyl I had some 2sj72/2sk147 pairs lying around from an old Krell KMA200, these work a treat and seem to be delivering more body over the k74/k170 (modern) combination that was in there before.
Hello,
It is rather tricky trying to achieve the virtues of le monstre with a collection of transistors that is completely different from the ones used in the past. During the time i used the 30 watt Hiraga there has been a change of the driver transistors and just before i bought the 30 watt there was only the 20 watt available. After changing the power transistors in the 20 watt they wrote that with the new transistors they could make a more powerful Hiraga so then the 30 watt was conceived.
The new drivers were technically better they wrote but there was an adjustment necessary in a few parts to be beneficial.
Apart from Helmut there are not many people hear i think that heard the 8 watt as Hiraga intended. Had it in their man cave when they decided to make a copy that could be comparable or maybe even better.
There have been test with kind of making complementary fets operate at same temperature by installing them in such a way that they can be mounted with their flat surface " thermally coupled"
There have been publications in France, in French of course, about finding other transistors for this amp. THEY have the advantage of people still using the original one and a much bigger diy scene regarding not so typical gear.
Greetings,Eduard
It is rather tricky trying to achieve the virtues of le monstre with a collection of transistors that is completely different from the ones used in the past. During the time i used the 30 watt Hiraga there has been a change of the driver transistors and just before i bought the 30 watt there was only the 20 watt available. After changing the power transistors in the 20 watt they wrote that with the new transistors they could make a more powerful Hiraga so then the 30 watt was conceived.
The new drivers were technically better they wrote but there was an adjustment necessary in a few parts to be beneficial.
Apart from Helmut there are not many people hear i think that heard the 8 watt as Hiraga intended. Had it in their man cave when they decided to make a copy that could be comparable or maybe even better.
There have been test with kind of making complementary fets operate at same temperature by installing them in such a way that they can be mounted with their flat surface " thermally coupled"
There have been publications in France, in French of course, about finding other transistors for this amp. THEY have the advantage of people still using the original one and a much bigger diy scene regarding not so typical gear.
Greetings,Eduard
I just find it amazing that transistors that are now 43 years old and were used in a really hot running environment work as intended. Apparently trannies don't wear out
Hello Konst,
If you have the transistors that have approved to use in a LE MONSTRE or a 20/30 watt Hiraga and are all mounted a quality circuit with PERFECT solder joints and you will decide NOT to keep changing parts every 6 months in the first years you will end up with something that can work for decades.
BUT if you think a big seize heatsink will always work, work with alu bars to mount the power transistors and then mount these bars to a heatsink. Or mount the transistors in the wrong area of the area. All things that will prevent the transistor from passing its heat to the heatsink. Have the heatsinks mounted in area of the chassis where there is minimal airflow. Sure they will have a shorter life!
Maybe some improved circuits here are prone to oscillations that can effect? lifetime of a transistor.
All these issues have been dealt with in the FRENCH magazines.
One of the designs of Jean Hiraga a single ended solid state power amp using an output transformer was modified using a second 2SK135. Both 2SK135 were attached to a an identical winding on a toriod power transformer and the winding(s?) on the other '' side) where used to connect to the speaker. So you see a good reason not to use a toriod because the garbage from the outlet in the wall will just pass on through to the other side. Could be attenuated by a static screen but will all these switching cheap Chinese conceived for a limited lifetime all around your house better go for a split bobbin.
We will wait for Helmut and his choke story.
Greetings, eduard
If you have the transistors that have approved to use in a LE MONSTRE or a 20/30 watt Hiraga and are all mounted a quality circuit with PERFECT solder joints and you will decide NOT to keep changing parts every 6 months in the first years you will end up with something that can work for decades.
BUT if you think a big seize heatsink will always work, work with alu bars to mount the power transistors and then mount these bars to a heatsink. Or mount the transistors in the wrong area of the area. All things that will prevent the transistor from passing its heat to the heatsink. Have the heatsinks mounted in area of the chassis where there is minimal airflow. Sure they will have a shorter life!
Maybe some improved circuits here are prone to oscillations that can effect? lifetime of a transistor.
All these issues have been dealt with in the FRENCH magazines.
One of the designs of Jean Hiraga a single ended solid state power amp using an output transformer was modified using a second 2SK135. Both 2SK135 were attached to a an identical winding on a toriod power transformer and the winding(s?) on the other '' side) where used to connect to the speaker. So you see a good reason not to use a toriod because the garbage from the outlet in the wall will just pass on through to the other side. Could be attenuated by a static screen but will all these switching cheap Chinese conceived for a limited lifetime all around your house better go for a split bobbin.
We will wait for Helmut and his choke story.
Greetings, eduard
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The 2SK170 is by no stretch the best sounding JFET ever made, but it has a (quite poorly matched) complementary pair.
Not me. It`s the core, you see...
Not me. It`s the core, you see...
Monster LCRC
Hello,
a little story about a Monster and chokes.
I build my first Monster in the mid nineties, used it for a time and then put it aside. In this time all the transistors where available, so I have a good stock. The power transistors are still available.
Only the Fets 2sk170/2SJ74 where a compromise, Hiraga used grade Y (IDss 2 - 3.5 mA) I was only able to buy grade GR (IDss 3 - 6.5 mA). So the 1k resistor has to be adjusted, IDss 3.5 corresponds to about 820R a current of 600mA.
Last year I decided to build the Monster new with good parts, especially Shinko Tantal resistors. I was not able to source all resistors, so I added some Audio Notes tantals.
The last evolution was to try chokes. I own some of them, so I first tried the choke shown in the pictures, 0,200 H at the place of the R in CRC. The sound worsens, the stage decreases. may be the current was too high and the core saturated.
Second approach, LCRC configuration, L has only 14 mH but high current potential. R is 0.5R.
The soundstage is back again deep and broad, if there was a slight graininess its cleaner now, only listenable during comparing. I hate hot sibilants and I had some, even better now. This version will stay till I find a better one. Next for me is to try stabilized supply.
The other pictures: my Monster is still waiting for encasing, it's still a construction area. I build my casings by myself, more flexibility. For example a picture of my Pass F2J.
Speakers: some, most of the time Hifi World speaker 1993, Richard Allen Woofer and Audax tweeter. Also Cube Audio Magus and Sonidos fullrange.
Pre: Stevens and Billington TX102III Silver-
Source: TEAC VRDS P700 / Matrix X-Sabre, Platine Verdier, Pass Ono Clone.
Some CD's, more records.
Hello,
a little story about a Monster and chokes.
I build my first Monster in the mid nineties, used it for a time and then put it aside. In this time all the transistors where available, so I have a good stock. The power transistors are still available.
Only the Fets 2sk170/2SJ74 where a compromise, Hiraga used grade Y (IDss 2 - 3.5 mA) I was only able to buy grade GR (IDss 3 - 6.5 mA). So the 1k resistor has to be adjusted, IDss 3.5 corresponds to about 820R a current of 600mA.
Last year I decided to build the Monster new with good parts, especially Shinko Tantal resistors. I was not able to source all resistors, so I added some Audio Notes tantals.
The last evolution was to try chokes. I own some of them, so I first tried the choke shown in the pictures, 0,200 H at the place of the R in CRC. The sound worsens, the stage decreases. may be the current was too high and the core saturated.
Second approach, LCRC configuration, L has only 14 mH but high current potential. R is 0.5R.
The soundstage is back again deep and broad, if there was a slight graininess its cleaner now, only listenable during comparing. I hate hot sibilants and I had some, even better now. This version will stay till I find a better one. Next for me is to try stabilized supply.
The other pictures: my Monster is still waiting for encasing, it's still a construction area. I build my casings by myself, more flexibility. For example a picture of my Pass F2J.
Speakers: some, most of the time Hifi World speaker 1993, Richard Allen Woofer and Audax tweeter. Also Cube Audio Magus and Sonidos fullrange.
Pre: Stevens and Billington TX102III Silver-
Source: TEAC VRDS P700 / Matrix X-Sabre, Platine Verdier, Pass Ono Clone.
Some CD's, more records.
