...Unfortunately I only can find these speaker today where they use it in a smaller enclosure or they mention the woofer has tight bass but not nice deep or ...
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
These they use two woofer
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
If would be better to go with smaller box I can decrease the enclosure about 10L or so but I afraid on the end I end up with a smaller cabinet where no other woofer will ever be useful
If I do not get -3 30Hz there is no reason to use 10"..
Sorry I just woke up and my brain just not there..
Thank you guys!!
Greetings G
Yeah, but the project you mention says frequency response: 30-25 000 Hz (-8dB)
Thank you Ind.
I will tested around 50L (That was the orig size of the enclosure for the Monacor 8" driver) I can separate there easily.
I'm confused a bit
One of your sim result very nice from the 48L is really nice, the 30.1Hz tuned
The other from the 47.9L is unacceptable (I mean I do, or I will not finish these project)
I think out of the two the second is the correct sim result based on my sim result.
If you are able to open the data **** so you can see the factory sim from 65L F3 28Hz is very nice.
Port tube 9Cm diameter 270 long..
Please roll done to the bottom and you can see how nice.
If you can see that you will understan whi I push the 65L size cabinet.
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/alcone/ac10he.pdf
I get very close sim result to with that simple software I use.
The HI-VI even better a bit!!
I have trow away that port tube, that so big almost separate the enclosure at half.
Again the sound from the Alcone I get nice but I have a feeling like no enclosure behind or the air escape somewhere.
No sound pressure at all.
With the Hi-vi I ger better sound pressure but not enough deep bass somehow badly roll of around 60-70Hz or so.
What I feel to loud from 70Hz up, I can say almost double as loud like at 30-40Hz.
Must be something wrong with the enclosure.
Tomorrow will do further tests.
Greetings G
I will tested around 50L (That was the orig size of the enclosure for the Monacor 8" driver) I can separate there easily.
I'm confused a bit
One of your sim result very nice from the 48L is really nice, the 30.1Hz tuned
The other from the 47.9L is unacceptable (I mean I do, or I will not finish these project)
I think out of the two the second is the correct sim result based on my sim result.
If you are able to open the data **** so you can see the factory sim from 65L F3 28Hz is very nice.
Port tube 9Cm diameter 270 long..
Please roll done to the bottom and you can see how nice.
If you can see that you will understan whi I push the 65L size cabinet.
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/alcone/ac10he.pdf
I get very close sim result to with that simple software I use.
The HI-VI even better a bit!!
I have trow away that port tube, that so big almost separate the enclosure at half.
Again the sound from the Alcone I get nice but I have a feeling like no enclosure behind or the air escape somewhere.
No sound pressure at all.
With the Hi-vi I ger better sound pressure but not enough deep bass somehow badly roll of around 60-70Hz or so.
What I feel to loud from 70Hz up, I can say almost double as loud like at 30-40Hz.
Must be something wrong with the enclosure.
Tomorrow will do further tests.
Greetings G
Attachments
It's not the enclosure that's wrong, but your test setup is:
- Tuning frequency of 27 Hz (vent 9 cm x 27 cm)
- Woofer coil of 8 mH
- Woofer not screwed in tight
Attachments
65L
Relative -3 dB Point 30.83 Hz
Relative -6 dB Point 27.09 Hz
Relative -10 dB Point 23.59 Hz
Port Diameter 7.5
Port Length 20
Number of Ports 1
Tuned Port Fb 28.2 Hz
Relative -3 dB Point 30.83 Hz
Relative -6 dB Point 27.09 Hz
Relative -10 dB Point 23.59 Hz
Port Diameter 7.5
Port Length 20
Number of Ports 1
Tuned Port Fb 28.2 Hz
Attachments
When I wrote something wrong with the enclosure I mean with the set up, actually the port tube I got is very bad
The enclosure inside only 20Cm wide
The port tube both end almost 13Cm and 29.5Cm long
That tube in the center of the enclosure slow done the air movement a lot.
I have to get some other port tube, only problem the 9Cm tube size very rare.
You gave me 9Cm, on the factory data they gave me also 9Cm.
Gan I go with 10Cm (actually 4")??
Also I would like to use 45 degree tube like the attached picture.
For two reason
If I can't find tube like that in that size I will use water drain tube 4" type.
I will cut it and bend it to 45 degree (slow curve)
The req. lenght to long to go with straight port tube.
The Alcone not mounted to the enclosure yet! I must get some acceptable sound to decide if I go with the Alcone or HI-VI F10 woofer.
The Hi-vi was mounted already. If I mount the (use screws) the woofer I loose at least 30% more from the value in case I will have to sell the Alcone.
I can go higher with the crossover up to 400Hz or so.
The reason I went done (so low) to 200Hz because the HI-VI has that terrible peak 70Hz and up.
To explain like step on the stairs jump up..
Dissi
Can you please run a sim with the program U are using with the HI-VI F10 to.
I see you get very similar result on the Alcone like me (I use a Swedish software) for sim.
Thank you for all
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
Last edited:
Experience with port tube
Do someone tested different type diameter port tube at same enclosure.
What do I mean?
For example
Here I need 9Cm diameter 27Cm long port tube for star + fine tuning
I have to up to 10Cm a bit longer tube or go 8Cm shorter tube. Need to be calculated the lenght precisely.
9Cm not available, specially not in the size I need
For 10cm I can use the plumber's 4" PVC pipe, also has bigger selection in the store from these size.
8Cm diameter I can order that Visaton I attached plus ad to the lenght some more the get the right size.
My question bigger diameter tube VS a bit thinner.
10Cm VS 8Cm.
My flared tube cost $32/each, not cheap at all, NOW I can not invest $$$ to test all tube on the market just to tune up my box.
If you got some experience please share it with us.
The Alcone as a subwoofer in these project not bad, actually nice if their sim correct
All do they get similar sound character like me
These Alcone has dry, well controlled bass but a bit shy and sometimes would be good to have more energy behind.
AlconeAC-10_Woofer
I was able to translate from German to English, from netto 55L cabinet 7Cm diameter port tube..
On the history of this woofer:
In the fall of 2001, we began the construction of a hi-fi woofer taking advantage of the room acoustics. The calculations were performed with the program "LSP CAD". Finally, the simulation was finished and we had a solution to 20 Hz was the frequency response of linear down! Thus, the woofer has been built and tested. The result was mixed. Although the woofer was not as linear as we had hoped, but he gave frequencies up to 20 Hz, with a high level again. Finally, the frequency response was linearized at the listening position with an equalizer. The design proved to be in living rooms as an outstanding solution with great potential.
The principle: Bass reflex enclosure with long and relatively thin tube. Nevertheless, the air flow in the pipe always remains below 15 m / s so that no flow noise. The frequency response harmonizes very well with the typical room frequency response of living spaces, so that is the magic 20Hz-limit actually achieved.
Specifications
Driver: Alcone AC-10U 25cm Aluminium ceramic cone Net content: 55 liters Tube diameter: 7 cm tube length: 50 cm Maximum Power: 250 Watt Sound 1m/Maximalleistung: 105 dB sound level 1m/1W: 88 dB (20-100 Hz) Nominal resistance : 8 ohms Frequency range: depending on the arrangement (20-2000 Hz)
Please visite the site for the pictures.
Greetings G
Do someone tested different type diameter port tube at same enclosure.
What do I mean?
For example
Here I need 9Cm diameter 27Cm long port tube for star + fine tuning
I have to up to 10Cm a bit longer tube or go 8Cm shorter tube. Need to be calculated the lenght precisely.
9Cm not available, specially not in the size I need
For 10cm I can use the plumber's 4" PVC pipe, also has bigger selection in the store from these size.
8Cm diameter I can order that Visaton I attached plus ad to the lenght some more the get the right size.
My question bigger diameter tube VS a bit thinner.
10Cm VS 8Cm.
My flared tube cost $32/each, not cheap at all, NOW I can not invest $$$ to test all tube on the market just to tune up my box.
If you got some experience please share it with us.
The Alcone as a subwoofer in these project not bad, actually nice if their sim correct
All do they get similar sound character like me
These Alcone has dry, well controlled bass but a bit shy and sometimes would be good to have more energy behind.
AlconeAC-10_Woofer
I was able to translate from German to English, from netto 55L cabinet 7Cm diameter port tube..
On the history of this woofer:
In the fall of 2001, we began the construction of a hi-fi woofer taking advantage of the room acoustics. The calculations were performed with the program "LSP CAD". Finally, the simulation was finished and we had a solution to 20 Hz was the frequency response of linear down! Thus, the woofer has been built and tested. The result was mixed. Although the woofer was not as linear as we had hoped, but he gave frequencies up to 20 Hz, with a high level again. Finally, the frequency response was linearized at the listening position with an equalizer. The design proved to be in living rooms as an outstanding solution with great potential.
The principle: Bass reflex enclosure with long and relatively thin tube. Nevertheless, the air flow in the pipe always remains below 15 m / s so that no flow noise. The frequency response harmonizes very well with the typical room frequency response of living spaces, so that is the magic 20Hz-limit actually achieved.
Specifications
Driver: Alcone AC-10U 25cm Aluminium ceramic cone Net content: 55 liters Tube diameter: 7 cm tube length: 50 cm Maximum Power: 250 Watt Sound 1m/Maximalleistung: 105 dB sound level 1m/1W: 88 dB (20-100 Hz) Nominal resistance : 8 ohms Frequency range: depending on the arrangement (20-2000 Hz)
Please visite the site for the pictures.
Greetings G
I made several sim on both woofer
From 65L I get much better result than 75L when tuned f3 32Hz.
With room gain I still get the aimed 30Hz or even better.
I do not want to invest more and more money in these project. All do I would love to test the Visaton AL200 to, I know a store now sell now at half a price.
Only reason I have the AL130 and I love it a lot.
I think about it!
Now I have extra 10L in my enclosure, the bottom just screwed up, I didn't glued yet thank God. Easier to work with.
Someone advise to use sand bag to feel up the extra room. Sand bag is good but if I use cloth bag the send will end up all over in the box. In plastic bag the sand get hard almost like the rock. Also if ever I move the box it would give a headache.
Other option
1) I can separate 10L and feel up that place with sand.
2) Or I just cut of that 10L
Out of two option which one would be better?
The sand in the bottom of the enclosure do it have some dumping effect or just add some extra weight next to feel up that 10L?
I used send in speaker stand with good result but never tested in the cabinet.
Any advice on these please
Thank you very much.
Greetings Gabor
Hello
I want to let you know I didn't gave up these project, at least not yet.
I'll cut of 10L from the enclosure, make it 65L.
Unfortunately I have to wait until the weather will warm up a bit. The bottom of the enclosure was extended by Baltic birch (thank God the last two pieces I didn't glued yet so easily I removed that.
I need to remove 4 pc more but those are glued and full with nails and 4 screws each sheet of wood.
I have to take it out from the apartment and use chisel to take of that 4 sheet.
I attached some picture from the woofer enclosure.
You can see what I'm writing about.
Other
I still don't understand how that German guy get so deep bass with these woofer from 55L enclosure tuned to 20Hz.
I mean at these project
http://www.fideliker.ocwev.de/hifi_woofer1_alcone.htm
Greetings Gabor
I want to let you know I didn't gave up these project, at least not yet.
I'll cut of 10L from the enclosure, make it 65L.
Unfortunately I have to wait until the weather will warm up a bit. The bottom of the enclosure was extended by Baltic birch (thank God the last two pieces I didn't glued yet so easily I removed that.
I need to remove 4 pc more but those are glued and full with nails and 4 screws each sheet of wood.
I have to take it out from the apartment and use chisel to take of that 4 sheet.
I attached some picture from the woofer enclosure.
You can see what I'm writing about.
Other
I still don't understand how that German guy get so deep bass with these woofer from 55L enclosure tuned to 20Hz.
I mean at these project
http://www.fideliker.ocwev.de/hifi_woofer1_alcone.htm
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
Last edited:
Thanks
What is hard to understand to me at 20Hz almost get 90db.
1W/1W 88db, that is possible?
I know with room gain we always get +3 or more db based where we place the woofer. Close to the floor, corner etc.
Why I'm interested on these I know my enclosure to large for these woofer.
In case I would go under 65L (what is the adwise from Alcone) and after I'm not satisfied I'll be in big trouble.
So I keep the 65L and if I still do not leke it I will put together from cheap material MDF etc a similar enclosure to that guy .
Let see the difference.
Thanks one more time
Greetings Gabor
What is hard to understand to me at 20Hz almost get 90db.
1W/1W 88db, that is possible?
I know with room gain we always get +3 or more db based where we place the woofer. Close to the floor, corner etc.
Why I'm interested on these I know my enclosure to large for these woofer.
In case I would go under 65L (what is the adwise from Alcone) and after I'm not satisfied I'll be in big trouble.
So I keep the 65L and if I still do not leke it I will put together from cheap material MDF etc a similar enclosure to that guy .
Let see the difference.
Thanks one more time
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
The dotted line is the free air, that sure, you can reed it please look at the last pic. I posted.
The other line is in the enclosure with room gain
Only tuning I (read about) find here (at least how I understood) the port tube.
May be I miss something or I lose something when I Google translate it from German to English.
Thanks guys.
Greetings G
The blue line (dots mixed) is the free air result
The continuous line the result he got with the room gain plus tuning and equalizer he use based on the mark on the simulation
Another line (just dots) I really don't know what is
By the way I did look around on his website and found some equalizer which look like these
bauvorschlaege_start
Today I found on the forum someone uses these woofers 2woofer per enclosure (I have to read true the thread) to see the result he got.
I built several speakers 2 & 3 ways even I sold some of them to audiophile guys.
With these driver I really bump into the wall, I do not like the sound I hear
Reason I purchased the Hi-Vi F10.
That move more air but still not my taste.
Soon I will reduce the enclosure to 65L, I'll test both woofer again.
Original req was to get 30Hz with room gain but quality bass. The Alcone provide better quality sound (cleaner, controlled, precise compare to the Hi-Vi bass) just sound very SHY.
The VI-FI gave more bass but very ugly.
The Alcone woofer was chosen because D'Appolito praised it so much.
- and - due to the bass competent front speakers - the almost unnecessary subwoofer with AC 12 SW.
Now he stopped using these woofer and changes his opinion to, on the other website he mention the bass is a bit shy still good but shy.
He use different words but with these meaning.
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
You can read here.
May be on the end I will get read of these woofers, and the HI-VI to!
But jut to make it clear before the enclosure size was increased from 50L to 75L I tested several 8 inch woofers from Scan-Speak, Vifa, Monacor, Beyma concentric type and others.
Getting tired to waste money on woofers.
I have a 12L bookshelf speaker with Visaton AL130 and I so love them. Not just me , anybody heard so loved it.
In the XO I used components what I had in my box of course it took a lot of time until I got the result I love.
About 20 years a go built another 3 way project, I used a 12 inch Monacor woofer in 75L enclosure and had the same issue.
I famous speaker producer guy SONIDO (Istvan Varga) even he gave some aid and marveled how shy the bass. I threw out that enclosure and sold the drivers.
I afraid on the end these project end up like that.
Look like bigger than 6.5 inch driver I run into trouble for some reason.
Greetings G
The continuous line the result he got with the room gain plus tuning and equalizer he use based on the mark on the simulation
Another line (just dots) I really don't know what is
By the way I did look around on his website and found some equalizer which look like these
bauvorschlaege_start
Today I found on the forum someone uses these woofers 2woofer per enclosure (I have to read true the thread) to see the result he got.
I built several speakers 2 & 3 ways even I sold some of them to audiophile guys.
With these driver I really bump into the wall, I do not like the sound I hear
Reason I purchased the Hi-Vi F10.
That move more air but still not my taste.
Soon I will reduce the enclosure to 65L, I'll test both woofer again.
Original req was to get 30Hz with room gain but quality bass. The Alcone provide better quality sound (cleaner, controlled, precise compare to the Hi-Vi bass) just sound very SHY.
The VI-FI gave more bass but very ugly.
The Alcone woofer was chosen because D'Appolito praised it so much.
- and - due to the bass competent front speakers - the almost unnecessary subwoofer with AC 12 SW.
Now he stopped using these woofer and changes his opinion to, on the other website he mention the bass is a bit shy still good but shy.
He use different words but with these meaning.
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
You can read here.
May be on the end I will get read of these woofers, and the HI-VI to!
But jut to make it clear before the enclosure size was increased from 50L to 75L I tested several 8 inch woofers from Scan-Speak, Vifa, Monacor, Beyma concentric type and others.
Getting tired to waste money on woofers.
I have a 12L bookshelf speaker with Visaton AL130 and I so love them. Not just me , anybody heard so loved it.
In the XO I used components what I had in my box of course it took a lot of time until I got the result I love.
About 20 years a go built another 3 way project, I used a 12 inch Monacor woofer in 75L enclosure and had the same issue.
I famous speaker producer guy SONIDO (Istvan Varga) even he gave some aid and marveled how shy the bass. I threw out that enclosure and sold the drivers.
I afraid on the end these project end up like that.
Look like bigger than 6.5 inch driver I run into trouble for some reason.
Greetings G
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