Gee wiz, it seems no one has a sense of humor on this thread. I meant that statement to be tongue and cheek. My objective is not to literally hack stuff up. I understand the objective/subjective paradigm with audio. But If there's no sense of experimentation or interest in the subjective nature of audio improvement and it its all just "snake oil" lets rename the forum to Consumer Reports "audio edition" and test refrigerators with built in speakers perfect sound forever. Golly Darn.
(response to post 40) Bless you and your compatriots -- a noble effort keeping the boutique capacitor factories in business.
I hope you aren't including the 470uF C3 in the 1200uF 'upgrade' -- you know that'll lower the low frequency roll-off by something like an octave and a fifth. May not be the wisest choice.
Sorry about the 'failing to notice tongue-in-cheek' -- I often have that problem myself with stuff I've typed. Maybe try a '😉' every now and then -- it's a little bit stronger of a hint than typed text, which is otherwise completely lacking in inflection.
Cheers
I hope you aren't including the 470uF C3 in the 1200uF 'upgrade' -- you know that'll lower the low frequency roll-off by something like an octave and a fifth. May not be the wisest choice.
Sorry about the 'failing to notice tongue-in-cheek' -- I often have that problem myself with stuff I've typed. Maybe try a '😉' every now and then -- it's a little bit stronger of a hint than typed text, which is otherwise completely lacking in inflection.
Cheers
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No worries Rick. Yes I'll do that. Yes. I am keeping the C3 at the OEM 470uf value. Thank you for checking me on that though!
LOL!
Gotta love the humor.
Even if it's fact.
I hardly want to get into any "capacitor" discussion, particularly about those boutique things.
It's been discussed ad nauseum already.
You are correct in saying that they aren’t “in series” with the circuit, BUT, they are in parallel with the source generator (I.E., the cartridge), and therefore 100% of their Johnson noise will be amplified by the phonostage.
Again, kinda-sorta. Yes, the electrical loading of the cartridge will be satisfied regardless of the composition, but as they are in parallel with (and therefore part of) the cartridge, all the noise will be amplified.
The overall sound? Are we talking Johnson noise, or something subjective? As the value is 25 ohms, the Johnson noise is going to be very, very low as the resistor value is so low. Now if it were a 2 meg resistor, absolutely, changing that to something low-noise would likely be audible… but the noise of a 25ohm resistor is going to be so tiny regardless of composition it will be totally inaudible.
A couple of things, which have been pointed out previously by people honestly trying to help, so I won’t rehash those items. But I will offer a couple nuggets to consider -
The photos of your unit show it completely populated with Dale CMF55 resistors. (Other photos on line show units with lesser resistors, so count yourself lucky to have gotten that. 🙂 ) You are going to have a heck of a challenging time getting a resistor with lower intrinsic noise, so don’t worry about them at all. However, if you are interested in dumping out your wallet and throwing extra sparkly parts at it, the bang for the buck will be in the bigger resistor values. I would never criticize somebody for placing a bulk foil resistor in the 47K loading position for instance, that will be a legitimate choice.
There is the big film cap on the output that you are going to change, that one is obvious that it is in the signal path. But the 470uF nonpolar with the bypass is also very much in the signal path, so if you plan on being worried by capacitors, that one is also worth considering. Do electrolytics age? Sure. But I’ll bet you that when you remove it it’s going to measure in-spec. (If you don’t have a Mega328, a fantastic little widget that will tell you what any non-IC electronic component is at the press of a button, please get one, it’s wonderful - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1426730362...uid=3BXt12BJT3G&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)
Don’t mess with the RIAA caps and resistors (even though they are in the direct signal path as well) unless you want to match both channels to better than 1%. I suspect they may have already come pretty close to that at the factory.
Do you ever plan on running an MM cartridge? If so, remove C1. Having 270pF prophylactically across the input is going to force many good cartridges in to an LC peak in the audible range and make them sound zingy. At least put it on a switch. The capacitance of the cabling and input stage will properly C load any MM you may use. Some people like more capacitance for MC. YMMV.
That's EXACTLY what happened years ago with one of my Audio-Technica MM cartridges through that phono stage with a 4KHz peak that grated on my nerves on certain musical passages. I sold the damn thing before realizing my tonearm cables were just too long and too much capacitance! Great advice!
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Remove whatever's in there and replace the loading capacitor with a 47pF disk cap.
This way the cables sway the loading, and the localized 45pF helps resolve any RF interferance.
This way the cables sway the loading, and the localized 45pF helps resolve any RF interferance.
Question. What's LC?
BTW, the guy who is "massaging" my 47K (KC) suggested putting 3 capacitors in parallel on a small circuit board to replace/override C1 (68pF, 120pF, & 150pF as random suggested values) which I thought was a cool idea (and I'm having him do, BTW).
Also, we changed up a lot of the Dales to Zfoils (at my request) so people can throw stones at me if they want lol
LC = Inductance Capacitive “I” was already used, so “L” means inductance. (Coils, chokes, etc…)
Loading caps only mean something for MC cartridges. MM will always have enough with your phono cable’s capacitance.
Dales are really, really quiet. Zfoil are probably quieter. On a large value resistor, where the Johnson noise is a thing, there’s likely a measurable advantage to using the quieter R.
Loading caps only mean something for MC cartridges. MM will always have enough with your phono cable’s capacitance.
Dales are really, really quiet. Zfoil are probably quieter. On a large value resistor, where the Johnson noise is a thing, there’s likely a measurable advantage to using the quieter R.
LC is an electrical engineering short hand which means, in this context, "inductor - capacitor resonant circuit". The inductor is the moving magnet cartridge and the capacitor is the 270 pF capacitor inside the phonostage.
EEs deal with resonant circuits quite a bit; and here, in the context of a phono cartridge + preamplifier, resonance is certainly unwanted.
EEs deal with resonant circuits quite a bit; and here, in the context of a phono cartridge + preamplifier, resonance is certainly unwanted.
Hi,
"I chose the AuriCap because it was the best quality cap that would fit in the same OEM footprint/area without looking ridiculous."
And what makes You think what's best quality? A exorbitant price tag? Seen yet a honest set of data or just learned from Snake oil chat?
Not explicitly about AuriCaps, but more often than not those boutique parts don't even match basic industry standard parts. They for sure know why they don't provide for decent datasheets and prooveable and reproducable data but bang the big marketing drum. You certainly can't put a metric on "increased dynamics and resolution".
But then ... if you only 'believe' enough You will definitely hear an improvement big enough to not let You mourn too much about the wasted money grin
jauu
Calvin
"I chose the AuriCap because it was the best quality cap that would fit in the same OEM footprint/area without looking ridiculous."
And what makes You think what's best quality? A exorbitant price tag? Seen yet a honest set of data or just learned from Snake oil chat?
Not explicitly about AuriCaps, but more often than not those boutique parts don't even match basic industry standard parts. They for sure know why they don't provide for decent datasheets and prooveable and reproducable data but bang the big marketing drum. You certainly can't put a metric on "increased dynamics and resolution".
But then ... if you only 'believe' enough You will definitely hear an improvement big enough to not let You mourn too much about the wasted money grin
jauu
Calvin
Calvin, I definitely agree there!
But some people for whatever reasons, buy-into the hype.
It's their money, not mine.
But some people for whatever reasons, buy-into the hype.
It's their money, not mine.
Hi 6L6.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. You bring up an aspect I had not considered before regarding C1. At first, I considered constructing some kind of pad with selectable capacitance to address this issue. Ideally, I wanted to use some kind of pin header that would accept the cap leads thus making it plug-in/switchable but I couldn't find a solution. Then I thought more about the "other variable" which is the cartridge itself. I use mostly a MM Nagaoka MP-110 body with a NP-200 boron stylus, (killer budget setup by the way) and sometimes a AT OC9II MC. The Nagaoka carries a rather unusually large inductance of 810mH which when I calculate shows a very nice flat response across the band with no LC peak utilizing the 47k's, 47k loading and 270pf capacitance. This also matches what I hear.
For reference these tools are very helpful: http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html
But, you do bring up a good point that would indeed need to be addressed to insure broader MM cartridge comparability. I do wish the 47k came with selectable capacitance loading. Given that I now have a broader understanding of the impact of capacitance loading I question when people give a poor review to a phono preamp utilizing a MM cartridge. I think I just happened to stumble on a good match with the 47k/Nagaoka combo.
PS: My mods to the 47k are complete and I'm very pleased with the results. I also took your advice and picked up a Mega328 thank you!
Hi Atlvalet,
I'm looking fwd to seeing what KC does with your upgrades. KC is very very good and a small circuit board with selectable capacitance would be ideal. Please document with some pics or a video to share!
Oh bother.... (face plam).
Its the best quality (for this application, that I could find) because it's a USA made Metalized Polypropylene capacitor to replace the 30 year old oem polyesters and conforms to modern standards of testing and construction, including MIL-C-55514A and MIL-STD_E method 103B testing. Additionally, Audience has been making capacitors for over 20 years now. They are well accepted and reviewed by thousands of users and I appreciate the attention to detail such a taking the time to mark the outer foil of capacitor.
Moreover, I don't consider them boutique or do I consider the price exorbitant. One could easy blow more on a McDonalds meal (or two) for sure then a couple of XO Auricaps. Your comments are ridiculous.
We're talking about a $100 or so in parts cost to upgrade a phono stage purchased used for couple $100 bucks to make it comparable to new phone stages that now cost thousands of dollars. I hardly think that is a "wast of money" grin. Look, if you think your few NE55xx stuffed in an Altoids box with some disk caps is all your ears and time is worth then go live the dream.
So, to summarize. I finally completed the said mods a few weeks ago (things move slow around here). I'm overwhelming pleased with the outcome. One should consider this before dropping $$ on a Parasound Halo JC 3+. What was immediately noticed after the modifications was an overall increase in transparency and dynamics to music. A noticeable congested sound was removed and there is simply more "there" there. I have two units one modded, and one OEM, to easily compare. Additionally, the unit should be good for another 30 years. Two .01 Solen film/foils were added as bypass caps to the XO, and of course all big power supply caps and the IPS were upgraded. In retrospect, If I was to do anything different i might utilize a 2w AMRG at R27 in place of the 0.5w Audio Note Tantalum. I also noticed that the metal cover (inside) covering the power supply caps as well as the capacitor at C3 tend to be microphonic but only as a signal is active. One can verify this by tapping on the lid and the capacitor while playing music. It doesn't seem to do it while muted or no signal present regardless of gain. Here are a few pics. I've also documented the mods on you tube to help anyone who would like to try the same/similar. Happy Audio.
Here: https://youtu.be/I4z35Xb2VgA
Here: https://youtu.be/okvuz0ZAfhU
Here: https://youtu.be/I4z35Xb2VgA
Here: https://youtu.be/okvuz0ZAfhU
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Very nice pics! 🙂
Couple bits regarding your post #55 -- you didn't mention the cable capacitance. Perhaps an accident?
And, the 47k for MM cartridges is one thing that is fairly well standardized, as far as I know, at least.
Regards
Couple bits regarding your post #55 -- you didn't mention the cable capacitance. Perhaps an accident?
And, the 47k for MM cartridges is one thing that is fairly well standardized, as far as I know, at least.
Regards
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