get out and get a table....
as succinct as always, kevin🙂
ORNJ : do get something. And don't wait for the "perfect deal" . If you stick with good basic designs, like an old Dual, you can get going along the analog path. The goal is to get you something to enjoy music with. And start buying records as soon as possible. No sense having a turntable, no matter how good or how bad, if you have no music to play on it.
ePay, audiogon, etc. Local used hifi shops, thrift stores...all can be a good source. Check craigslist etc, as well.
Let us know what you come up with. And if you find a "dael" don't waste too much time thinking it over. If trult a deal, then it could easily be gone by the time you decide.
as succinct as always, kevin🙂
ORNJ : do get something. And don't wait for the "perfect deal" . If you stick with good basic designs, like an old Dual, you can get going along the analog path. The goal is to get you something to enjoy music with. And start buying records as soon as possible. No sense having a turntable, no matter how good or how bad, if you have no music to play on it.
ePay, audiogon, etc. Local used hifi shops, thrift stores...all can be a good source. Check craigslist etc, as well.
Let us know what you come up with. And if you find a "dael" don't waste too much time thinking it over. If trult a deal, then it could easily be gone by the time you decide.
Hello
I would like to get a honest answer from Lenco or Garard owners
I think about idler drived TT
I have a Elac thick heavy plate TT, it was lubricated and I still have some noise from the idler.
And I feel some vibration from on the TT. I do not hear noise on the speakers!
Do the Lenco or Garard has similar problem?
Please let me know
Otherwise the Elac sound great. I want to replace the tonearm but before I spend I want to know all idler driver has similar issue.
Please let me know.
Thank you
Greetings Gabor
I would like to get a honest answer from Lenco or Garard owners
I think about idler drived TT
I have a Elac thick heavy plate TT, it was lubricated and I still have some noise from the idler.
And I feel some vibration from on the TT. I do not hear noise on the speakers!
Do the Lenco or Garard has similar problem?
Please let me know
Otherwise the Elac sound great. I want to replace the tonearm but before I spend I want to know all idler driver has similar issue.
Please let me know.
Thank you
Greetings Gabor
There is almost always some mechanical noise from the idler wheel. One of the first things is to take the idler wheel off and soak it in liquid dish detergent fo a day or so, then re-install it. If the idler has been removed, re-lube it at the same time.
Check out Lenco Heaven (mainly an idler wheel forum). There is a bunch of Lenco specific mods that can work well on other tables, but as I have never done any of them on anything but junk tables, I will not comment here.
I've heard an A/B comparison of a fully tricked out Garrard (oil wheel) idler TT against a Rockport Serius III TT and was quite surprised how close the Garrard came to sounding as good as the absoutely superb Rockport. The "Rock" had a tangential tracking tonearm and Colibri cart while the Garrard used a pivoting arm (I don't remember which one) with a excellent cart. I don't know how much was expended on the Garrard, but it had to be a lot less money than the Rockport's nearly $100,000 pricetag.
Of the two, I would take the Garrard due to it's portability (The Rockport weighs over 500 lbs).
Best Regards,
TerryO
Hello
Thank for the answer.
I thought the Lenco or Garard does not has these issue.
Not to much mechanical noise but I can hear it when I go close and run with out music and I can feel with my hand some vibration.
I want to upgrade the tonearm.
Before I thought I'll sell it and buy something belt drive. Someone warned me not to sell it because these is a great TT.
He wrote these as good like the Lenco 75 or Garard. He has the manual for these Elac.
I have a Yamaha YP-801 BL direct drive like new condition, about 30LB but I prefer the Elac over the Yamaha.
It just sound that much better.😱
OK if all idler drivers has similar issue I must keep these and do some upgrade. The plate is very heavy solid built TT.
May be I remove of the Yamaha tonearm and I test it with that.
OK I will do the dish soap trick.
The rubber on the idler is soft but I will try your advise.
Thank you so much
Greetings gabor
Thank for the answer.
I thought the Lenco or Garard does not has these issue.
Not to much mechanical noise but I can hear it when I go close and run with out music and I can feel with my hand some vibration.
I want to upgrade the tonearm.
Before I thought I'll sell it and buy something belt drive. Someone warned me not to sell it because these is a great TT.
He wrote these as good like the Lenco 75 or Garard. He has the manual for these Elac.
I have a Yamaha YP-801 BL direct drive like new condition, about 30LB but I prefer the Elac over the Yamaha.
It just sound that much better.😱
OK if all idler drivers has similar issue I must keep these and do some upgrade. The plate is very heavy solid built TT.
May be I remove of the Yamaha tonearm and I test it with that.
OK I will do the dish soap trick.
The rubber on the idler is soft but I will try your advise.
Thank you so much
Greetings gabor
Attachments
The Elac is a good table, but if you want to put another arm on it you might want to consider starting fresh with a table designed with that intention in mind. An Elac with another arm is going to have to be a pretty serious bodge IMHO..
All idlers make noise, whether or not this is coupled to the record being played is dependent on a number of issues including the mass of the platter and plinth, how well the motor is decoupled from the plinth and platter, etc.
My two TD-124 are not silent close up, but no mechanical noise from the table is audible in playback on the fully restored unit, and even the partially restored one is very, very quiet.
All idlers make noise, whether or not this is coupled to the record being played is dependent on a number of issues including the mass of the platter and plinth, how well the motor is decoupled from the plinth and platter, etc.
My two TD-124 are not silent close up, but no mechanical noise from the table is audible in playback on the fully restored unit, and even the partially restored one is very, very quiet.
I have similar issue like you, nothing more.
Why I'll have problem if I use a better arm? Please let me know.
The motor suspension use some rubber washer (can be dry or tired that to)
I have to check them out.
Also it has floating suspension but I didn't check yet if it can be done some improvement.
Thanks kevinkr
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
er , that looks pretty bad....
if that's what your motor spindle looks like, I'd dry to clean it up a bit. How do you measure the speed? If you use something that is not powered by AC, then clean up the spindle and check the speed . Or try to get an accurate measurement from a good ELAC of the same model as yours and have a motor spindle machined.
The ELAC is reportedly very good. Jean Nantais of Lenco "fame" stated that he started out with an ELAC and that he thought they were very excellent. I can't remember model he had (10H, 20H????).
Having never had the experience that TerryO hads had regarding a comparison, I can say that a beater Dual 1214 that I own, with a DIY tone arm compared very favourably to my Oracle , and my friend's Roksan Xerxes. The beater Dual cost about $60 including plinth and tonearm.
TerryO: I 'll PM you regarding "Kevin the Barber". Oh, and Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to all.
if that's what your motor spindle looks like, I'd dry to clean it up a bit. How do you measure the speed? If you use something that is not powered by AC, then clean up the spindle and check the speed . Or try to get an accurate measurement from a good ELAC of the same model as yours and have a motor spindle machined.
The ELAC is reportedly very good. Jean Nantais of Lenco "fame" stated that he started out with an ELAC and that he thought they were very excellent. I can't remember model he had (10H, 20H????).
Having never had the experience that TerryO hads had regarding a comparison, I can say that a beater Dual 1214 that I own, with a DIY tone arm compared very favourably to my Oracle , and my friend's Roksan Xerxes. The beater Dual cost about $60 including plinth and tonearm.
TerryO: I 'll PM you regarding "Kevin the Barber". Oh, and Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to all.
Last edited:
I think Stew is right on the money, it appears that there is a lot of corrosion on that pulley. I'd clean it up carefully with solvent and paper towel, see what I could get off first. Worst case some clean up with Scotch Brite bearing in mind that you could cause some serious damage to the pulley if not careful. Pits might be filled with body filler and smoothed by hand.. You need a very smooth running surface if you hope for quiet operation.
Hello
Yes that is the motor spindle. the 33 is clean that is one on the top.
I do not use speed 45 neither the 78.
It has a very nice strobe light, I can adjust the speed nicely and she keep it well.
These has very heavy platter.
Strong motor to. I think I will have to replace the motor suspension rubbers. I don't know where I get 2 PC.
These is Miracord 50H II very rare. Same as 770 hat is available in German Ebay.
Elac Miracord 770H | eBay
Do you think is a good idea to replace the tonearm?
I hate these arm because the head shell not competitive with any TT. Also made out of cheap aluminium..
I think I remove the Yamaha tonearm and I sell that with out the arm. The Yamaha YP-801 BL sound thin and has much less dynamic com pare to the Elac.
Can be because the arm??
If yes that is a bad news.
Actually a great TT, these look like new, has the orig box even do it is more than 30 years old. Someone store very well.
Not much use in it. I purchased to remove the arm but so nice and clean my heart dont let me to do that.😀
I wish I have the arm of these on my Elac. But these is direct drive.
ELAC PC 900 RARE!!! | eBay
I owned several Dual these Elac is much better. All do I do not had idler derived one.
Happy New Year to all
Greetings Gabor
Yes that is the motor spindle. the 33 is clean that is one on the top.
I do not use speed 45 neither the 78.
It has a very nice strobe light, I can adjust the speed nicely and she keep it well.
These has very heavy platter.
Strong motor to. I think I will have to replace the motor suspension rubbers. I don't know where I get 2 PC.
These is Miracord 50H II very rare. Same as 770 hat is available in German Ebay.
Elac Miracord 770H | eBay
Do you think is a good idea to replace the tonearm?
I hate these arm because the head shell not competitive with any TT. Also made out of cheap aluminium..
I think I remove the Yamaha tonearm and I sell that with out the arm. The Yamaha YP-801 BL sound thin and has much less dynamic com pare to the Elac.
Can be because the arm??
If yes that is a bad news.
Actually a great TT, these look like new, has the orig box even do it is more than 30 years old. Someone store very well.
Not much use in it. I purchased to remove the arm but so nice and clean my heart dont let me to do that.😀
I wish I have the arm of these on my Elac. But these is direct drive.
ELAC PC 900 RARE!!! | eBay
I owned several Dual these Elac is much better. All do I do not had idler derived one.
Happy New Year to all
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
Last edited:
Can't see any detail, don't understand why people persist in linking to photographs when we have a great server that handles pictures well. Just go to "Advanced" and then "Manage Attachments" and you can upload your photos (appropriately sized) to our server.. I'd really like to see a good picture of your TT.. 😀
Hello
I would like to see those pictures to.
Hello Kev.
I keep the Elac TT and I sell the Yamaha YP-801 BL. It sound that much better.
In case if I found another Elac or idler driver I'll build out (DIY TT) with a long min 12" tonearm.
I will try to improve the motor suspension and also the floating suspension. I mount the tone arm of from the plinth.
Greetings
I would like to see those pictures to.
Hello Kev.
I keep the Elac TT and I sell the Yamaha YP-801 BL. It sound that much better.
In case if I found another Elac or idler driver I'll build out (DIY TT) with a long min 12" tonearm.
I will try to improve the motor suspension and also the floating suspension. I mount the tone arm of from the plinth.
Greetings
Sounds like a great plan and a lot of fun. When you get started post some pictures of your project as you go - I love this stuff.. 😀
Hello
Yes I'll do.🙂
I have to fund another TT for DIY. I do not want to touch these I own, it just worth to much to do that.
I do not understand why sound so good com pare to the Yamaha (that a expensive 27Lb TT about 35 years a go it was $550).
These Elac beat sound wise in every area.
I took of the Yamaha tone arm, is a great arm with detachable cable.
Is a high quality arm, 9.5".
I'll try out on these TT.
Greetings Gabor
Yes I'll do.🙂
I have to fund another TT for DIY. I do not want to touch these I own, it just worth to much to do that.
I do not understand why sound so good com pare to the Yamaha (that a expensive 27Lb TT about 35 years a go it was $550).
These Elac beat sound wise in every area.
I took of the Yamaha tone arm, is a great arm with detachable cable.
Is a high quality arm, 9.5".
I'll try out on these TT.
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
keep the ELAC...
... it's the right thing to do.
One thing that I am finding (personally) is the relative high cost of many old turntables because someone somewhere figures it should cost more. That's one of the reasons the Lenco (and other) turntables are becoming quite expensive. This is one of the reasons that I like hacking up old changers. Nobody values them.
I have toyed with the idea of getting an Empire 208 or similar, or a better idler, but the prices continue to climb. Soon it will be cheaper to custom build a turntable from scratch, even with the high cost of single piece custom machining. A Technics SP10 might be nice as well as the Sony 2250. But these tables are enjoying huge popularity.
... it's the right thing to do.
One thing that I am finding (personally) is the relative high cost of many old turntables because someone somewhere figures it should cost more. That's one of the reasons the Lenco (and other) turntables are becoming quite expensive. This is one of the reasons that I like hacking up old changers. Nobody values them.
I have toyed with the idea of getting an Empire 208 or similar, or a better idler, but the prices continue to climb. Soon it will be cheaper to custom build a turntable from scratch, even with the high cost of single piece custom machining. A Technics SP10 might be nice as well as the Sony 2250. But these tables are enjoying huge popularity.
Hello
Do you know which Dual idler derived?
I know the 1009 but probably there are others to or better built version.
The 1009 has 7Lb platter similar weight like my Elac
I found soft rubber motor suspension.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/310366855427?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
May be someone interested on these to.
Greetings Gabor
Do you know which Dual idler derived?
I know the 1009 but probably there are others to or better built version.
The 1009 has 7Lb platter similar weight like my Elac
I found soft rubber motor suspension.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/310366855427?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
May be someone interested on these to.
Greetings Gabor
That's because I didn't know you could. I'll see if I can make it work using you're instructions.
Attachments
Which Dual?
gaborbela: I've gutted a couple of Dual 12XX models (a 1216 and a 1225) and a Garrard Lab60, basically removing the changer parts and as much of the linkages to make them manual turntables. I'm not fond of the old Dual arms so I make an arm (as per Altmann) or re-use an existing arm (I have a few kicking around). I have never gutted a Dual 10XX turntable, but I think it would be quite good as well.
Part of the issue with idler wheel noise can be attributed to the rather small size of the wheels (the Dual and Garrard Lab series) when compared to the Lenco style of drive which are quite large. Another part can be attributed (I think) to the use of bushings rather than bearings in the idler wheels themselves. I have a dislike for springs in any analog playback system, so anything you can do to remove springs in a Dual or Garrard Lab series turntable will help (I guarantee it!).
I never recommend using a good working turntable as a donor for a DIY project, unless you are willing to risk it. As I have a dozen or so turntables, I usually take the plunge. I have an old Garrard Lab80 that I will refurbish rather than take apart for that very reason.
Let us know what you might like to do, I'd be more than happy to help you along in any way possible.
gaborbela: I've gutted a couple of Dual 12XX models (a 1216 and a 1225) and a Garrard Lab60, basically removing the changer parts and as much of the linkages to make them manual turntables. I'm not fond of the old Dual arms so I make an arm (as per Altmann) or re-use an existing arm (I have a few kicking around). I have never gutted a Dual 10XX turntable, but I think it would be quite good as well.
Part of the issue with idler wheel noise can be attributed to the rather small size of the wheels (the Dual and Garrard Lab series) when compared to the Lenco style of drive which are quite large. Another part can be attributed (I think) to the use of bushings rather than bearings in the idler wheels themselves. I have a dislike for springs in any analog playback system, so anything you can do to remove springs in a Dual or Garrard Lab series turntable will help (I guarantee it!).
I never recommend using a good working turntable as a donor for a DIY project, unless you are willing to risk it. As I have a dozen or so turntables, I usually take the plunge. I have an old Garrard Lab80 that I will refurbish rather than take apart for that very reason.
Let us know what you might like to do, I'd be more than happy to help you along in any way possible.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.