Freddi- pardon my ignorance, but why wouldn't it make a good helper for the Alpair? Separation of sources, phase issues, or something else? Punchy k15 was sounding like it had promise (though being low right on the floor is still going to make it a target of destruction for the toddler...)
Rick - Which enclosure are you referring to, the ml-tl box like mjk's that Dave posted? But with 12lta?
I'm trying to keep all the options in my head, but there's limited room up there... that's why i modeled them, to be able to look at them and make associations visually. I'll see about modeling a sealed and a ported box for the 12lta.
Trying to keep my options (and mind) open... Hmmm..
12lta running full range w/ supertweeter VS. smaller fullrange w/ helper woofer?
Which is more full sounding, has more punch/impact, has sweeter mids and highs, and and...
Rick - Which enclosure are you referring to, the ml-tl box like mjk's that Dave posted? But with 12lta?
I'm trying to keep all the options in my head, but there's limited room up there... that's why i modeled them, to be able to look at them and make associations visually. I'll see about modeling a sealed and a ported box for the 12lta.
Trying to keep my options (and mind) open... Hmmm..
12lta running full range w/ supertweeter VS. smaller fullrange w/ helper woofer?
Which is more full sounding, has more punch/impact, has sweeter mids and highs, and and...
K15 doesn't go "down low" (rear chamber is ~4 cubic feet, system tuning ~45 or so) - With a good speaker. K15 is pretty articulate in its own right. If using a woofer rather than fullrange or coax in K15 (and smaller Karlson), then a "K-tube" can give nice result. I would trust P10 for advice on best how to employ Alpair and other FR. There can be a power discontinuity going from large speakers to small if the crossover points aren't properly selected. - -losing punch, and making the small speaker work too hard.
"
"
Last edited:
Dave - thank you for checking 12lta specs
Freddi - Okay, right I recall that the karlsonators go deeper than their ancestral karlson models of the same size...
So, Karlsonator 15 then?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239386-karlsonator-4.html#post3573382
This is actually an interesting thread.. seems that there's a love/hate thing going on with these karlson/ator enclosures eh?
What else works well for supplying this type of "punchy" bass?
Unfortunately what I know firsthand is really only from those car audio days - sealed is punchy but lower sound levels and good for music, ported is sort of punchy/sort of boomy with more efficiency and only suited for some types of music, and bandpass boxes were big in size and boomy rhather than punchy but with more efficiency so they were louder... and generally awful for anything other than rap music/being loud & obnoxious.
Where a BIB, TL, ML-TL, etc. fits into that spectrum I don't quite know... Descriptions of the BBBIB performance sounded promising, but it's only one fellow's opinion, not sure how many more of them got built:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88104-bbbib-bigger-badder-bib-speaker-20.html#post1266924
Would the bass out of the larger BIB and other TQWT designs be "punchy" or more towards "boomy"? The karlsonator? Ah, but to have all these designs lined up, and a day with nothing to do but listen to them and compare them... Even if there were calculated/measured frequency plots for all of them, that doesn't really tell you HOW they sound, just what sort of response you can expect at various frequencies. This is a bit frustrating.
To reiterate:
For music, for the mains, I'm looking for punch.
For HT use, the separate subwoofer would supply the boom.
Freddi - Okay, right I recall that the karlsonators go deeper than their ancestral karlson models of the same size...
So, Karlsonator 15 then?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239386-karlsonator-4.html#post3573382
This is actually an interesting thread.. seems that there's a love/hate thing going on with these karlson/ator enclosures eh?
What else works well for supplying this type of "punchy" bass?
Unfortunately what I know firsthand is really only from those car audio days - sealed is punchy but lower sound levels and good for music, ported is sort of punchy/sort of boomy with more efficiency and only suited for some types of music, and bandpass boxes were big in size and boomy rhather than punchy but with more efficiency so they were louder... and generally awful for anything other than rap music/being loud & obnoxious.
Where a BIB, TL, ML-TL, etc. fits into that spectrum I don't quite know... Descriptions of the BBBIB performance sounded promising, but it's only one fellow's opinion, not sure how many more of them got built:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88104-bbbib-bigger-badder-bib-speaker-20.html#post1266924
Would the bass out of the larger BIB and other TQWT designs be "punchy" or more towards "boomy"? The karlsonator? Ah, but to have all these designs lined up, and a day with nothing to do but listen to them and compare them... Even if there were calculated/measured frequency plots for all of them, that doesn't really tell you HOW they sound, just what sort of response you can expect at various frequencies. This is a bit frustrating.
To reiterate:
For music, for the mains, I'm looking for punch.
For HT use, the separate subwoofer would supply the boom.
These Betsy Ks are interesting as well, an 8" full range, to be used with a helper woofer.
Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
Betsy K in the 8" BIB that was designed for the Pioneer BOFU? Stacked on top of a helper woofer in a ______ enclosure? Hmmm.
Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
Betsy K in the 8" BIB that was designed for the Pioneer BOFU? Stacked on top of a helper woofer in a ______ enclosure? Hmmm.
a dedicated powered subwoofer plus small fullrange enclosure is one way to distribute bulk in a system. BetsyK is nice enough - similar to a BG20, probably smoother. BetsyK in K12 (I tried it in the 1954 "Karlsonette" LK12) is "mellow" and would benefit from a helper tweeter. It seemed to subjectively load well with very little cone excursion. It loaded well enough so when I turned it up, vibrated the tinsel leads out of the eyelets. (It wasn't moving much peak to peak)
You will have to ask xrk971 to sim a Karlsonator "15". We know from the Karlsonator12 as drawn by GregB, that tuning is about 37Hz - so the model may be predicting somewhat higher tuning than reality. One doesn't want to tune too low nor too high with any vented system - there's a sweet spot (or area - If parameters allow)
K12 plus a good subwoofer would be one compact Karlson based system. I think K12 with a competent speaker such as Kappa12a, has pretty good dynamics and prefer it to a La Scala - although its difficult to directly compare a midbass horn with large midhorn to a little K-coupler crossing over either to a coax's concentric tweeter or K-tube on top, partly due to directivity differences. A 12 like Kappa12A allows use of 200 watts per channel in the little Karlson. I've never mounted a low Qts speaker in the Karlsonator 12 but did have it loaded with Beta10CX (current model - the old model from a decade and more ago had lower Qts) - I did not like Beta10cx's midrange - could have been the crossover. The "Osprey" xover is probably much better than Eminence's
Although it doesn't make a lot of sense to me conceptually ("why" the front chamber would be useful with say an 80Hz xover), K15, when tuned low and loaded with a low mass low fs 15 speaker (Think Altec 515 - I've done it with 416 - Altec were low mass high vas and linear) , subjectively makes a good sounding subwoofer. This re-tuning is done with two 3 inch inside diameter right angle pvc pipe fittings, mounted on a piece of plywood, which is then screwed over the existing K15 port. This tunes K15 to around 30Hz. Some mild boost can be applied, centered around 30Hz. This is "Exemplar's" method. John Tucker felt K15 used this way was the only thing reasonably compact to keep up with his vented horn speakers. I used one channel of a 25 watt receiver to try the low tuned K15 with 416 - the other channel had a K12 from 80Hz up with an old Knight-Jensen coax - a feeble thing by itself - but pretty in the midrange due to small spider, small coil. The result was wonderful on well recorded theater organ recordings.
You will have to ask xrk971 to sim a Karlsonator "15". We know from the Karlsonator12 as drawn by GregB, that tuning is about 37Hz - so the model may be predicting somewhat higher tuning than reality. One doesn't want to tune too low nor too high with any vented system - there's a sweet spot (or area - If parameters allow)
K12 plus a good subwoofer would be one compact Karlson based system. I think K12 with a competent speaker such as Kappa12a, has pretty good dynamics and prefer it to a La Scala - although its difficult to directly compare a midbass horn with large midhorn to a little K-coupler crossing over either to a coax's concentric tweeter or K-tube on top, partly due to directivity differences. A 12 like Kappa12A allows use of 200 watts per channel in the little Karlson. I've never mounted a low Qts speaker in the Karlsonator 12 but did have it loaded with Beta10CX (current model - the old model from a decade and more ago had lower Qts) - I did not like Beta10cx's midrange - could have been the crossover. The "Osprey" xover is probably much better than Eminence's
Although it doesn't make a lot of sense to me conceptually ("why" the front chamber would be useful with say an 80Hz xover), K15, when tuned low and loaded with a low mass low fs 15 speaker (Think Altec 515 - I've done it with 416 - Altec were low mass high vas and linear) , subjectively makes a good sounding subwoofer. This re-tuning is done with two 3 inch inside diameter right angle pvc pipe fittings, mounted on a piece of plywood, which is then screwed over the existing K15 port. This tunes K15 to around 30Hz. Some mild boost can be applied, centered around 30Hz. This is "Exemplar's" method. John Tucker felt K15 used this way was the only thing reasonably compact to keep up with his vented horn speakers. I used one channel of a 25 watt receiver to try the low tuned K15 with 416 - the other channel had a K12 from 80Hz up with an old Knight-Jensen coax - a feeble thing by itself - but pretty in the midrange due to small spider, small coil. The result was wonderful on well recorded theater organ recordings.
Last edited:
Or 'double your pleasure, double your fun'
[sung to the tune: DoubleMint Gum Song W/Lyrics - Vintage Advertisement - Not Chris Brown! - YouTube] and add another driver internally to do double duty as a sub TH like I proposed for the BOFU.......Didn't get around to working it out though, since it won't work well enough with matching drivers and probably much too big for the vast majority. Sure would be fun to watching the responses if the main driver was some dinky little one though.
GM
Freddi, I see some work was done here on the betsy k in a karlsonator enclosure... Bass looks phenominal considering, but not sure where the mids and highs went?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239386-karlsonator-6.html#post3574613
In any case, I'm still a bit concerned about having the driver right on the floor where the toddlers can bang on them... this is part of why I like having the driver up high, which is coincidentally at ear level
GM - adding a woofer driver to the baffle of the BOFU BIB as a TH.... I was just thinking along the same lines, thinking back to some of the old BBBIB and BIB threads! Has this been done? Woofer driver would have to fit inside the 8" BIB cabinet, so you have 12" of width to work with.. or could stretch the width a little if you needed to, keeping the BIB proportions (1.412 was it?)... I did wonder, wouldn't that woofer driver end up pounding the lighter full range speaker's cone a bit, sharing the airspace on the back side? I like this idea quite a bit!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239386-karlsonator-6.html#post3574613
In any case, I'm still a bit concerned about having the driver right on the floor where the toddlers can bang on them... this is part of why I like having the driver up high, which is coincidentally at ear level
GM - adding a woofer driver to the baffle of the BOFU BIB as a TH.... I was just thinking along the same lines, thinking back to some of the old BBBIB and BIB threads! Has this been done? Woofer driver would have to fit inside the 8" BIB cabinet, so you have 12" of width to work with.. or could stretch the width a little if you needed to, keeping the BIB proportions (1.412 was it?)... I did wonder, wouldn't that woofer driver end up pounding the lighter full range speaker's cone a bit, sharing the airspace on the back side? I like this idea quite a bit!
Last edited:
Not that I'm aware of..........
Right, 2^0.5 AKA SQRT[2] = 1.414.
For sure it will Doppler it to death if not correctly designed to minimize it and not entirely sure it can be done 'good enough', hence more a 'what if' project, so haven't devoted much time on it until I can do some real world testing. This semi-similar project strongly implies it can though: https://web.archive.org/web/2012031...ndell/xentar/1179/theory/dddllqd/dddllqd.html
GM
Right, 2^0.5 AKA SQRT[2] = 1.414.
For sure it will Doppler it to death if not correctly designed to minimize it and not entirely sure it can be done 'good enough', hence more a 'what if' project, so haven't devoted much time on it until I can do some real world testing. This semi-similar project strongly implies it can though: https://web.archive.org/web/2012031...ndell/xentar/1179/theory/dddllqd/dddllqd.html
GM
Like this? [Edit - judging by the article you linked to, I assume you meant to add the 2nd driver right on the front of the baffle, presumably under the full range driver... rather than mounted in the internal baffle as I believe was discussed elsewhere...]
Thanks, will do some reading there..
I do recall that Vb has to increase to account for the 2nd driver, didn't account for that in this mockup. And yes, I worry about what the woofer driver would do to the full range driver when cranked up to 11...
Can someone who has built a larger BIB chime in on what the bass is like, ie, punchy<---->boomy?
Attachments
Last edited:
It would be mounted on the other side and much closer to the throat depending on its specs to set the distance.
By definition, NO 'HIFI' vented alignment will be 'punchy'/'boomy' unless specifically designed for it, which none of the popular DIY ones are.
This is the 'bread n' butter', etc., 'domain' of prosound alignments, i.e. has a prominent boost in the ~80-100 Hz BW that can extend all the way out to ~300 Hz and typically ~ -24 dB/40-50 Hz, so no real bass.
In short, a typical prosound app EQ curve for most music genres, venues up until fairly recently.
For many HIFI/HT speaker alignments then, boosting via EQ and/or room placement is required, so typically either need high power handling and/or horn loading.
GM
By definition, NO 'HIFI' vented alignment will be 'punchy'/'boomy' unless specifically designed for it, which none of the popular DIY ones are.
This is the 'bread n' butter', etc., 'domain' of prosound alignments, i.e. has a prominent boost in the ~80-100 Hz BW that can extend all the way out to ~300 Hz and typically ~ -24 dB/40-50 Hz, so no real bass.
In short, a typical prosound app EQ curve for most music genres, venues up until fairly recently.
For many HIFI/HT speaker alignments then, boosting via EQ and/or room placement is required, so typically either need high power handling and/or horn loading.
GM
Meaning that 'hifi' and the full, rich sound with "punchy" (so to speak) bass that I'm looking for are mutually exclusive... ? I'm not sure 'hifi' is what I'm looking for, since I want a sound that is perhaps a bit richer/fuller than reality.. to be able to feel the music a bit more than you would in a live acoustic set. To me, that means some extra jolt down in the 20-60hz region. Real extra meat, not just eq'd in... Or at least not necessarily - but that means I'm asking for a speaker whose frequency curve is specifically NOT flat, rather with a bump somewhere in the lower bass region.
Though, for full disclosure, I run the Yamaha receiver with the treble and bass knobs at "0", BUT I do have the "extended bass" button activated - which I understand is a 50hz boost of some kind. In fact, the Fishers sound a bit tinny with that button 'off', where with it 'on' they are rather warm and full sounding. So it would seem I'm cheating a bit already. I do also have a 10 band stereo eq (analog) that could be implemented - though I tried it as is, and basically like the sound as-is with just a smidge more highs added in at something like 10k-16k hz (original cone tweeters were toast and at some point I tossed in some mystery brand/mystery spec cheap plastic dome tweeters to fill the hole in the sound and enclosure... and they seem to be a bit lacking compared to the woofer and mid).
So, after all, I'm secretly ok with some eq adjustment as necessary, and hopefully the ability to wall/corner load them will spice up the lower bass to my tastes...
If this is still what you want I would recommend you aim for a flat response then EQ to taste and material. Or.......have different set ups
"Punchy" bass (the kick drum?) usually calls for a boost around 70Hz
Last edited:
punch = build K15 - you can use the plan published in the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News - that port is 4.5" by 9" - in June !956, Karlson published an update on the port and shelf gaps - you can do that with wood strips then compare to the original port - that does not alter the LF but rather the area in the 250Hz region - Brace K15's rear panel - two on edge strips of plywood 1.5" would help or run a strut from the rear shelf to the rear panel - Load it with those 26 pound (might be shipping weight - maybe more like 22-23lb?) 15 inch P-Audio coaxial at $99 each - play with Xover - I'm not familiar with that particular CX but do have a P-audio neodymium coax in a K15.
K15 with a well balanced speaker sounds great on vocals, guitars, sax , bowed bass, organ, drumkit - better than some direct radiators - its distortion is low and cone excursion low at very high ouput- best I've heard on Sgt. Peppers, Hans Hotter's Winterreise, Gary Karr's rendition of "Vocalise" K15 is lots of fun. K12 can be but is like using a midbass horn so needs augmentation in the bass. (My next speakers may be nice K12 - but already have 4 pairs ;^)
"punch" partly comes from being able to get the dynamics reasonable right
- ever play a 4" snare drum ?
K15 can be used with some midrange horns
K15 plan from Radio and Television News
http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
K15 port and shelf gap "changeover", June 1956
http://home.planet.nl/~ulfman/images/chngovrkit.jpg
K15 with a well balanced speaker sounds great on vocals, guitars, sax , bowed bass, organ, drumkit - better than some direct radiators - its distortion is low and cone excursion low at very high ouput- best I've heard on Sgt. Peppers, Hans Hotter's Winterreise, Gary Karr's rendition of "Vocalise" K15 is lots of fun. K12 can be but is like using a midbass horn so needs augmentation in the bass. (My next speakers may be nice K12 - but already have 4 pairs ;^)
"punch" partly comes from being able to get the dynamics reasonable right
- ever play a 4" snare drum ?
K15 can be used with some midrange horns
K15 plan from Radio and Television News
http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
K15 port and shelf gap "changeover", June 1956
http://home.planet.nl/~ulfman/images/chngovrkit.jpg
Last edited:
Yep, those are still the design parameters
Different setups isn't doable right now/possibly ever, haha. Wife is amenable (grudgingly perhaps) to one large set of main speakers, with minimal complaining. Two sets would not be a good thing... but that hasn't kept from thinking about it!
Basically the "different setup" would be whether the separate overkill subwoofer is engaged or not... off for music (unless we're having a rave I guess), and on for HT.
That "feel it in your chest" or "punchy" or whatever you want to call it (but not boomy, that's rather the other end of the bass spectrum) is something I like in every type of music. Even classical (cellos, big drums, certainly organs) sounds much better this way.. ..to me. So likely I'd not touch the EQ settings once I got it where I liked it, and wasn't overtaxing the speakers (assuming that grubby little toddler hands don't find their way to adjusting it for me).
I'm not sure anyone believes me, but those damn fishers do rock n roll. Bass knob at "0", extended bass engaged, cranked up to 11 (near deafening), and no audible distortion, no muddled mids, no breaking up highs, no clipping. Just rock. Though the woofer cones are moving a good bit at that point, maybe 1/4"-5/16" total travel, or +/- 1/8", and likely there is no additional headroom above this - they are as loud as they'd get with my amp without distorting or exploding.
To sum up, the main points of this exercise are to make a set of mains that exceed the current speakers in
1. quality of sound
2. depth of sound (deeper lows and higher or more full highs)
3. having some additional headroom at volume = 11, ie, not so near to destruction at full volume listening levels.
4. look prettier than 30 yr old junk laminate/mdf/plastic enclosures (this is certainly the least important item)
Having read more since this started, a few more things could probably be added-
better imaging
bigger sweet spot
vocal freq range handled by single driver is ideal
drivers mounted up from floor by +36 inches to avoid toddler fingers is ideal
Different setups isn't doable right now/possibly ever, haha. Wife is amenable (grudgingly perhaps) to one large set of main speakers, with minimal complaining. Two sets would not be a good thing... but that hasn't kept from thinking about it!
Basically the "different setup" would be whether the separate overkill subwoofer is engaged or not... off for music (unless we're having a rave I guess), and on for HT.
That "feel it in your chest" or "punchy" or whatever you want to call it (but not boomy, that's rather the other end of the bass spectrum) is something I like in every type of music. Even classical (cellos, big drums, certainly organs) sounds much better this way.. ..to me. So likely I'd not touch the EQ settings once I got it where I liked it, and wasn't overtaxing the speakers (assuming that grubby little toddler hands don't find their way to adjusting it for me).
I'm not sure anyone believes me, but those damn fishers do rock n roll. Bass knob at "0", extended bass engaged, cranked up to 11 (near deafening), and no audible distortion, no muddled mids, no breaking up highs, no clipping. Just rock. Though the woofer cones are moving a good bit at that point, maybe 1/4"-5/16" total travel, or +/- 1/8", and likely there is no additional headroom above this - they are as loud as they'd get with my amp without distorting or exploding.
To sum up, the main points of this exercise are to make a set of mains that exceed the current speakers in
1. quality of sound
2. depth of sound (deeper lows and higher or more full highs)
3. having some additional headroom at volume = 11, ie, not so near to destruction at full volume listening levels.
4. look prettier than 30 yr old junk laminate/mdf/plastic enclosures (this is certainly the least important item)
Having read more since this started, a few more things could probably be added-
better imaging
bigger sweet spot
vocal freq range handled by single driver is ideal
drivers mounted up from floor by +36 inches to avoid toddler fingers is ideal
Freddi - I haven't discounted the K15 yet (or karlsonator 15), but the cone being right down on the floor like that is not ideal for me... the "bass bin" will end up being a "toy bin", full of toy cars, duplos, chew toys, etc... Granted, it could be covered with fabric. From reading your previous posts, I thought the k15 was lacking in low end bass and it was the karlsonator to look at?
Another thing is the frequency response doesn't seem to quite make it a "full range", since it comes up short on top (unless I'm thinking of the wrong graph - I don't have it open right now), so it needs a compression driver or something crossed in around.. 5k I think it was. Making it more of a conventional 2-way - not that that's a bad thing, but I'm sort of in love with the concept of the single driver or single driver + supertweeter at the moment.
Ah - and no I've not played a drum kit or really any drum beyond banging on pots and pans in my youth.. I have zero rythm, zero musical talent. I just like to listen to the talent of others. Though I guess your point may have been that a 4" snare drum produces a certain sound... so why not reproduce that sound with a 4" driver? I wouldn't say that a little snare has much "punch" if that's what you mean, it doesn't go low enough for that... I'd call that sound something else, "snap" maybe? Perhaps there are more technical terms for all this that I'm just unaware of...
A kick drum is more like it!
Also, that 15 coax driver you linked does look like a lot of speaker for the money... certainly worth consideration for a K/karlsonator 15 or other multi-way, if you were planning on using a coax horn for mids/highs. (Which, way back, I was looking for K-horn/Jubilee type sound, having read all the marketing fluff about how "full" and amazing they are). In fact, I think you said you had a set of the khorns, do they not compare at all to the Karlson type enclosures to your ears?
Another thing is the frequency response doesn't seem to quite make it a "full range", since it comes up short on top (unless I'm thinking of the wrong graph - I don't have it open right now), so it needs a compression driver or something crossed in around.. 5k I think it was. Making it more of a conventional 2-way - not that that's a bad thing, but I'm sort of in love with the concept of the single driver or single driver + supertweeter at the moment.
Ah - and no I've not played a drum kit or really any drum beyond banging on pots and pans in my youth.. I have zero rythm, zero musical talent. I just like to listen to the talent of others. Though I guess your point may have been that a 4" snare drum produces a certain sound... so why not reproduce that sound with a 4" driver? I wouldn't say that a little snare has much "punch" if that's what you mean, it doesn't go low enough for that... I'd call that sound something else, "snap" maybe? Perhaps there are more technical terms for all this that I'm just unaware of...
A kick drum is more like it!
Also, that 15 coax driver you linked does look like a lot of speaker for the money... certainly worth consideration for a K/karlsonator 15 or other multi-way, if you were planning on using a coax horn for mids/highs. (Which, way back, I was looking for K-horn/Jubilee type sound, having read all the marketing fluff about how "full" and amazing they are). In fact, I think you said you had a set of the khorns, do they not compare at all to the Karlson type enclosures to your ears?
Last edited:
you would need to put good grill cloth or perhaps a standard protective round grill over the 15" coax in K15.
K15 has more ability to "hit" than a Klipsch La Scala and probably more like 4-15 on open baffle. You could make a vented La Scala per DJK's scheme which adds about 2 cubic feet to the back chamber then is ported. Some boost like with B6 vented box could help balance it better.
that 15cx I suggested is also at US Speaker - perhaps you could make
some other type of cabinet. A big vent reflex with small rear chamber shows "hit"
in simulation and also RCA-Fan's measurements - it may be less neutral and controlled
in the bass than the Karlson
For pop music, K15 does not lack "bass" - it has 10X more usable bass than say a 15 inch speaker on open baffle. In its range, K15 is powerful thing. K15 can be very "musical" with the right drivers. 12LTA in Karlsonator may go about as low as K15 but a good 15" in K15 would trounce the weak motor 12LTA.
P.Audio Coaxial Speakers - P.Audio BM15CXA coaxial 15" speaker - P.Audio BM15CXA 350 watt 15" coaxial speaker for all full range applications. P.Audio BM15CXA 15" coaxial and other P.Audio coaxial speakers here.
i would not raise the Karlson off the floor although that's the way
its shown with Johnny Cash
K15 has more ability to "hit" than a Klipsch La Scala and probably more like 4-15 on open baffle. You could make a vented La Scala per DJK's scheme which adds about 2 cubic feet to the back chamber then is ported. Some boost like with B6 vented box could help balance it better.
that 15cx I suggested is also at US Speaker - perhaps you could make
some other type of cabinet. A big vent reflex with small rear chamber shows "hit"
in simulation and also RCA-Fan's measurements - it may be less neutral and controlled
in the bass than the Karlson
For pop music, K15 does not lack "bass" - it has 10X more usable bass than say a 15 inch speaker on open baffle. In its range, K15 is powerful thing. K15 can be very "musical" with the right drivers. 12LTA in Karlsonator may go about as low as K15 but a good 15" in K15 would trounce the weak motor 12LTA.
P.Audio Coaxial Speakers - P.Audio BM15CXA coaxial 15" speaker - P.Audio BM15CXA 350 watt 15" coaxial speaker for all full range applications. P.Audio BM15CXA 15" coaxial and other P.Audio coaxial speakers here.
i would not raise the Karlson off the floor although that's the way
its shown with Johnny Cash
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Mmm, better imaging and bigger sweet spot, many I would suggest would consider these to be mutually exclusive........but I believe an open baffle full range could give to both, if, by better imaging you don't necessarily mean pin-point positioning but rather a more spacious, three dimensional image. It can certainly give you that live feel.
K15 upside down, on a stand up at the ceiling instead? Ceiling loaded!
Scott - more spacious 3d image, but not a tiny sweet spot. Makes sense they might be exclusive to each other.. that stinks. Current setup there's maybe 2 ft left/right at the couch you can move where things seem "centered". But that's with cabinets angled in only slightly.. It may have been a bit better when I turned them in more and tried that "cross them in front of the listening area" trick... til everyone in the house tripped over them and complained, haha
Open Baffles I'm still feeling rather "meh" about, not to mention the toddler poking the front And back of the cone aspect. Maybe something that was a 'U' bend, with the back of the U near the wall could work, except then it's just a place for them to hide during "hide n seek"... And I'd really have to hear a set of OB to be convinced it would make the kind of full sound I'm looking for... my brain just screams "nooooo, it can't make any bass, there's no enclosure!"
Scott - more spacious 3d image, but not a tiny sweet spot. Makes sense they might be exclusive to each other.. that stinks. Current setup there's maybe 2 ft left/right at the couch you can move where things seem "centered". But that's with cabinets angled in only slightly.. It may have been a bit better when I turned them in more and tried that "cross them in front of the listening area" trick... til everyone in the house tripped over them and complained, haha
Open Baffles I'm still feeling rather "meh" about, not to mention the toddler poking the front And back of the cone aspect. Maybe something that was a 'U' bend, with the back of the U near the wall could work, except then it's just a place for them to hide during "hide n seek"... And I'd really have to hear a set of OB to be convinced it would make the kind of full sound I'm looking for... my brain just screams "nooooo, it can't make any bass, there's no enclosure!"
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.