Hi Angelo ... I wish I had the room, the initial and orignal idea was to stack smaller woofers in sealed bass bins now I am 'just' re-using my 15". I never listened to TPL but I have been considering it for a long time; who knows, maybe in future but I'd like to listen to it before and never had the chance.
hi Gluca
changing from compression drivers to the tpl150 was the best move i did in audio, and basically settled my search. For over 3 years, my setup has not changed, and i feel no need to try something else.
Kodomo,
Any update with your build?
I just read through this thread and it was very interesting. I do have a few comments that I wanted to share.
Back at the beginning you mentioned that you're listening distance was 4.5 m? To me, that is way too close to be building such a large speaker system. I anticipate that you will be able to easily discern each driver. My brother also listens at around that distance and he a built a unity horn, which can be found here: http://croweaudio.blogspot.ca/?m=1
It's hard to underestimate the coherency that is found in a close driver orientation. Even a good 2 way or 3 way is good for 4.5m
Also there's been a lot of talk about driver selection based on crossover frequency, but has much thought been given as to the tonal character of each driver? I've learned over the years that different brands and different "vintages" need to mate well together. This can only really be found through testing I guess, not on paper.
Also as much as I appreciate the benefits of a four-way or five way system, especially in regards to dispersion, I found that a good two-way or three-way system can be just as good, especially in smaller rooms.
For me, the beauty of DIY horn system is that you can do everything in stages with a modular system approach. Over the last few years I have swapped out certain sections of the speaker as I continue to make improvements, and learn the character of each driver. This is especially true as I learn my own personal tastes for each driver as well. It takes quite a while, months, even years of swapping back-and-forth to determine which driver is ultimately better to my liking. This is what the hobby is right?
So let us know what you discover with all of these new purchases and keep us in the loop as you learn each driver and horn. Your proposed system could be tweaked for lifetime!
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Any update with your build?
I just read through this thread and it was very interesting. I do have a few comments that I wanted to share.
Back at the beginning you mentioned that you're listening distance was 4.5 m? To me, that is way too close to be building such a large speaker system. I anticipate that you will be able to easily discern each driver. My brother also listens at around that distance and he a built a unity horn, which can be found here: http://croweaudio.blogspot.ca/?m=1
It's hard to underestimate the coherency that is found in a close driver orientation. Even a good 2 way or 3 way is good for 4.5m
Also there's been a lot of talk about driver selection based on crossover frequency, but has much thought been given as to the tonal character of each driver? I've learned over the years that different brands and different "vintages" need to mate well together. This can only really be found through testing I guess, not on paper.
Also as much as I appreciate the benefits of a four-way or five way system, especially in regards to dispersion, I found that a good two-way or three-way system can be just as good, especially in smaller rooms.
For me, the beauty of DIY horn system is that you can do everything in stages with a modular system approach. Over the last few years I have swapped out certain sections of the speaker as I continue to make improvements, and learn the character of each driver. This is especially true as I learn my own personal tastes for each driver as well. It takes quite a while, months, even years of swapping back-and-forth to determine which driver is ultimately better to my liking. This is what the hobby is right?
So let us know what you discover with all of these new purchases and keep us in the loop as you learn each driver and horn. Your proposed system could be tweaked for lifetime!
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Well, my calculations say even 3 metres are enough. I wish I had bigger space but I don't think it will be a problem. I do not think I will be able to discern the drivers. The drivers centres are at 50cm's, 110cm's, 160cm. My ear height is around 110cm. I have a 3 way (4 way with the tapped) corner horns, mid horns at 110cm and tweeters at 130cm, and they are closer than these speakers and it is very hard to discern the drivers. The stage is positioned high and not on the floor. It is like a concert with a stage setup, that is the only thing about my setup now... It gives me confidence it will be similar, may even create a lower stage, du to tweeter and upper midrange horn being closer to my ear height.
croweproductions; said:
I have been living and testing both midrange drivers and midrange horns for that last two years. I just don't know about the supravox at my setting, however I know how they behaved in a similar setup. I will be using the same tweeters but at a higher cutoff. I am also open to changes in the future if I feel I need to 🙂
croweproductions; said:
The room is bigger than 50m2 which is about 540squarefoot, it is not so small and is treated acoustically.
I will let everybody here know about how things go. I am not sure about any result, I am just experimenting but trying to base the experiment on sound decisions, experience and simulations as well as experience and knowledge of others.
Cool, thanks for responding to my "rant" Komodo. You've got me thinking about 4 and 5 way setup as well. For me, I'm all Altec, as I love the sound, compared to my brothers JBL and B&C horn setup. I think its due to neo vs alnico, and overdamped high power handling, vs the lower Altec's. Everything is much smoother.
I already have all the drivers, so my plan is 416c up to 80hz, 515-8g with FLH up to 400hz, 288-8g on 290 Yuischi horn to 2k, 802a on my Arteluthe radials up to 7khz, and a ribbon the rest of the way. My problem will be how/if the 802 will mate with the 288, similar to the TAD issue between 2001 & 4001. I might find I like one over the other.
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I already have all the drivers, so my plan is 416c up to 80hz, 515-8g with FLH up to 400hz, 288-8g on 290 Yuischi horn to 2k, 802a on my Arteluthe radials up to 7khz, and a ribbon the rest of the way. My problem will be how/if the 802 will mate with the 288, similar to the TAD issue between 2001 & 4001. I might find I like one over the other.
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IMHO personally I wouldn't take the 288 below 600 hz. Every application I've heard where it goes that low sounds too thin.
Okay thanks. If so, then there isn't much point in building a 290 Yuischi horn for them then. My
Current setup 2 way is 515 up to around 800hz and the 802 with a wood horn at around 1000hz. It sounds very good. 802 extends higher than 288 too. What's your thoughts on a fostex cone in a front loaded horn? I was thinking fe103 or fe108es. (400-2k)
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Current setup 2 way is 515 up to around 800hz and the 802 with a wood horn at around 1000hz. It sounds very good. 802 extends higher than 288 too. What's your thoughts on a fostex cone in a front loaded horn? I was thinking fe103 or fe108es. (400-2k)
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There is still a point building a 290hz cutoff horn when you cross at 600hz. As you know it doesn't mean you suddenly cross at 600hz. Blending drivers if you have a steady lowering response is much easier. This is a very critical and very audible range of music. It is ideal to cross around 600hz with a 290hz cutoff horn. Actually my experiments showed me better blending and better response is had when the driver is crossed at least 1 octave above of its horns cutoff. Half octave works too but is still a compromise. I tried both and spent a few months with both scenarios.
What kind of crossover you are using?
What kind of crossover you are using?
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Right now, I'm just using a 500hz Eminence crossover, with a custom shelf filter to knock out the mid hump. Sounds very nice. I did however remove some HP coils on the Eminence, so it's really 500hz on low, and about 800hz on the highs as my 802 mid horn can't go that low. That said, I plan on building a custom 3way steep slope crossover.
I'm looking for plans to build a decent wood horn for the 288. I've heard round horns, and didn't like the directional beaming. Proper dispersion for good soundstage is a primary concern, within it's operating range. With your setup, are you staying within the operating range of the drivers? By that I mean before beaming and breakup kicks in. Proper coverage, and mating drivers at a crossover freq where they have similar dispersion and phase is key I think. That is where I see the most compromise in a 2-way, and the reason to go 4 or 5 way right?
I'm looking for plans to build a decent wood horn for the 288. I've heard round horns, and didn't like the directional beaming. Proper dispersion for good soundstage is a primary concern, within it's operating range. With your setup, are you staying within the operating range of the drivers? By that I mean before beaming and breakup kicks in. Proper coverage, and mating drivers at a crossover freq where they have similar dispersion and phase is key I think. That is where I see the most compromise in a 2-way, and the reason to go 4 or 5 way right?
Heres some picks of the setup. Its photo is missing the ribbons on top at 7khz
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I have a lot of headroom on all my drivers, as it is a 5 way. For ex. supravox is used from 50hz to 7k in lot of designs and I am using it from 160hz or 200hz (waiting to build the tads to decide) to 600. The beryllium 1" radian 475 (some people use it as tweeters and people use it from 1000hz) will be crossed from 4.2khz to 12khz where Fostex t500amkII takes over. Foster can go down to 6.5khz without much problem (like in my current system) but if utilised over 11khz, efficiency goes up to 109db and it also sounds much better crossed higher.
The horns are similar. 1000hz cutoff JMLC operating from 4.2khz to 12khz. 200z cutoff round tractrix from 600 to 4.2khz. 110hz cutoff tractrix from 160 (half octave) or 200hz up to 600hz...
I have a very good sounding system already, what I am after is complete alignment of drivers and minimum compromise on driver and horn limits.
I think you should definitely get/build a better more suited crossover. It is really really important and makes a big difference.
The horns are similar. 1000hz cutoff JMLC operating from 4.2khz to 12khz. 200z cutoff round tractrix from 600 to 4.2khz. 110hz cutoff tractrix from 160 (half octave) or 200hz up to 600hz...
I have a very good sounding system already, what I am after is complete alignment of drivers and minimum compromise on driver and horn limits.
I think you should definitely get/build a better more suited crossover. It is really really important and makes a big difference.
I'm the wrong person to ask, IMHO you need long term experience to come up with solutions that work well, and the only large CDs I have experience with is TD4001 and 288.
kodomo looking forward to your results, I too am going to use minidsp to work out the xovers.
I bought four Tad TL-1601b woofers. I am not going to use scanspeak arrays. I am building four ported 170lt cabs. I will use them two on each side from 38hz to 160hz...
Ok, now I have all the drivers and horns. The skeleton/stand and the beachcomber are being cut out of cnc. I am getting more and more excited.
In the meantime, I am looking at some amps to power the Tad TL-1601B's. I am also incorporating a passive pre with dual outputs.
So here is what I will use for the speakers;
4 Tad TL-1601B's in 170liters ported cabinets
Supravox 285-2000 hornfabrik editions for cf110 round tractrix
Radian 850pb for cf200hz round tractrix horn
Radian 475 beryllium for cf1000hz JMLC horn
Fostex t500amkII bullet super tweeters
In the meantime, I am looking at some amps to power the Tad TL-1601B's. I am also incorporating a passive pre with dual outputs.
So here is what I will use for the speakers;
4 Tad TL-1601B's in 170liters ported cabinets
Supravox 285-2000 hornfabrik editions for cf110 round tractrix
Radian 850pb for cf200hz round tractrix horn
Radian 475 beryllium for cf1000hz JMLC horn
Fostex t500amkII bullet super tweeters
Pics? For amping, you might consider 6em7. me and my brother are building a 6em7 set triode tube amps. They use old television tubes. http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/6EM7-SET-Amplifier/
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