Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

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#2,462
coincidentally, i changed the output resistors from the 75/75 configuration to 294/100 last night on my shigaclone. there definitely was NOT a big difference and somewhat surprisingly (for me) the 75/75 might sound a little better. i still need to do a proper comparison to say for sure which i doubt i will find the time to do. i will probably just stick with the 294/100 to make sure i am not over driving the chip. I think there are other opportunities throughout my system to get much larger gains in sound quality and this is where i want to invest my time first.

i plan to update the pdf in the next couple of days to include the "proper" output resistor configuration. let me know if there are any additional changes people would like to see.

my system:
shigaclone
peter's dac
peter's buffer (mark and levinson legacy series clone)
twisted pear stepped relay based attenuator
4 X LM4780 monoblocks
biamped klipsh rf-7s (when i have the space to do cabinetry work i will replace these with something diy)
 
#2,463
kevinkr said:
Changing to Peter's recommended Citizen crystal was also a big improvement, but initially did not seem so - swapping back clinched the deal for me though.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting. I'm now dedicating to the new case, but the next step will be the crystal swap, from stock to Citizen. In which area did you find most improvement with the Citizen?
 
#2,464
m.massimo said:


That's very interesting. I'm now dedicating to the new case, but the next step will be the crystal swap, from stock to Citizen. In which area did you find most improvement with the Citizen?
Click to expand...

Smoother, more refined presentation, and the level of micro-detail seemed to increase, more resolution. It did sound less "relaxed" but overall a change I much preferred. Obviously this is all in ears of the beholder, system specific character, and is also the subject of much debate.. :devilr:

My system is based on a 26 dht SE transformer coupled line stage, SE 300B power amplifiers, DIY Onken system with JBL pro mid and high horns, DIY X-O. All digital sources are differential audio out with internal line to line transformers to go to unbalanced out.. Sources include R2R tape, LP, SACD, FM, and the media server & shigaclone via my diy dac.. Lots of sources for comparison.. 🙄

The shigaclone gives me the very best CD/44.1kHz PCM based sound I have ever had, but analog tape, LP and SACD are all better sounding in many respects as are a very few high res 24/96 files I have on hand.
 
#2,465
Thank Kevin, I'll take into account your observations about crystal swap. I'm not sure I want a more analytical sound, but I'm very curious to try.

Aside from box crafting, I've dedicated some time to the stock puck. It seems to me that it's a very weak point of the shigaclone (mine is from a 51).
Stock puck is not flat and hardly centered on the mechanism. The result is that it introduces some wobble (I'm not sure this is the correct term) to the disc, more than 1mm on the outer side of a perfectly flat disc, in my case. I think that this is not good for the best data reading. When I play the last song of a fully recorded disc, I can clearly see the laser sled going up and down trying to keep focusing. I've just realized an autocentering setup using a 6mm steel pin, getting rid of the plate and using only the magnet glued to the handle. It's clearly better than the stock puck, wobbling is reduced a lot. I'm waiting for a Sicomin carbon plate bought on eBay that should complete the job.
 

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#2,466
massimo - i have observed the same thing..... i do not know if this might change the sound of the device a lot but from the mechanical side of the story it is not looking very good..... can you elaborate a bit more about the puck you made - i am not sure that i understood everything you said about making it..... from what i can see you are using only a magnet (without the wider plate at the bottom) and you mentioned a steel pin - how this pin is looking - can you make some more pictures from the parts you have used - thank you ... 😀
 
#2,467
sparkle said:
massimo - i have observed the same thing..... i do not know if this might change the sound of the device a lot but from the mechanical side of the story it is not looking very good.....
Click to expand...

I've the same doubt. I don't know if that mechanical imperfection translates into a worst sound. I think so, but I'm not sure. I can tell you a story that could enlighten this matter. About 15 years ago I attended an hi-fi show here in Italy. An important brand (I don't remind that company after all these years) exhibited a modified cd player with one more led on the front plate. Everytime the error correction circuit was in action the led turned on.
Can you guess the result? Almost always on.
15 years later components are certainly better and error correction circuit intervenes less, maybe, but I prefer a good start.

Puck pictures as soon as possible.
 
#2,471
m.massimo said:


I've the same doubt. I don't know if that mechanical imperfection translates into a worst sound. I think so, but I'm not sure. I can tell you a story that could enlighten this matter. About 15 years ago I attended an hi-fi show here in Italy. An important brand (I don't remind that company after all these years) exhibited a modified cd player with one more led on the front plate. Everytime the error correction circuit was in action the led turned on.
Can you guess the result? Almost always on.
15 years later components are certainly better and error correction circuit intervenes less, maybe, but I prefer a good start.

Puck pictures as soon as possible.
Click to expand...



massimo - thanks for the reply - i will be waiting the pic's - thanks....
 
#2,473
ccschua said:
Sorry I ask back a very basic question.

for the power supply, instead of using 2200uF/35V I use 3300uF/35V, is it considered a deviation? will it affect the sound negatively ?
Click to expand...

It shouldn't, however the quality of the cap is an issue - use a very good one here... I use 2 x 2200uF BG standard grade in parallel to feed mine...

Can't say whether to Oscons are preferable to or inferior to the BG I am using - have not compared as the Oscons are hard to get around here.

I have included another picture, unfortunately it illustrates what an amateur I am from a mechanical perspective compared to Eric or Peter, but it does work rather well and it sounds good. This unit is based on the RC-EZ32 and has lots of mass - the audible improvement going to the thick aluminum subchassis with the heavy standoffs was major, the additional mass added by the bronze bars improved things slightly.

The power transformer was an afterthought - originally I used the stock transformer, but I thought I got a marginally noticeable improvement going to the larger transformer, but I am not (and wasn't) really sure I did. And I think it is really a bit too close to the mechanism, although in practice I don't see any issues with performance arising from its location.
 

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#2,475
kevinkr said:


The power transformer was an afterthought - originally I used the stock transformer, but I thought I got a marginally noticeable improvement going to the larger transformer, but I am not (and wasn't) really sure I did. And I think it is really a bit too close to the mechanism, although in practice I don't see any issues with performance arising from its location.
Click to expand...

You can eventually try to unbolt it and turn 90° and see if you get any effect.
 
#2,476
massimo said:


You can eventually try to unbolt it and turn 90° and see if you get any effect.
Click to expand...

Hi Massimo,
What's not clear in the picture is that there is absolutely no room to move that transformer other than to place it on the side wall which I don't want to do. Before I installed it I tried a variety of locations and heard no difference with it in or out of the chassis so I think it is probably just fine as is.

I was just trying to fit everything into a confined space without any special mounting techniques or hardware being required because I am metal working challenged.

I am slowly building a small machine shop and have some good tools, including a mini-mill, eventually a mini-lathe and a fixed belt/disk sander are to follow. Someday I will be good at metal work.. 😀
 
#2,477
kevinkr said:


Hi Massimo,
What's not clear in the picture is that there is absolutely no room to move that transformer other than to place it on the side wall which I don't want to do. Before I installed it I tried a variety of locations and heard no difference with it in or out of the chassis so I think it is probably just fine as is.

I was just trying to fit everything into a confined space without any special mounting techniques or hardware being required because I am metal working challenged.

I am slowly building a small machine shop and have some good tools, including a mini-mill, eventually a mini-lathe and a fixed belt/disk sander are to follow. Someday I will be good at metal work.. 😀
Click to expand...

Good, I'm glad to hear that an Xfrm even so close doesn't harm the cd transport performance.

Machine shop: I dare suggest to get a big, heavy drill press first, than a mini-mill (CNC?) or at least a good router with variable speed and a belt/disk sander, an inexpensive, but surprinsigly useful tool! The mini lathe can wait then.
Ops, forgot to mention a mitre saw with a good blade for non ferrous metal.
 
#2,478
Hi Massimo,
I have a harbor freight (Seig X-2) mini-mill already and will be getting some of the other stuff over the next few months.

In terms of transformers EI are generally recommended because of their substantial leakage inductance which reduces the effect of line borne noise on power supply performance. I suspect a toroid with a combined common mode/dif mode choke might work as well or even better, and produce a smaller magnetic field. I may try this at some point.

I use several toroids in my dac in fact and am quite happy with the performance.
 
#2,479
yesterday i have tried brass instead of the padouk wood for stands..... hmmmm.... not sure but i think i just miht leave the transport workign with brass.... it seems to me that i gained on some clarity.... not sure... i have to make those copper plate the soonest possible to try a good heavy weight bottom plate for mounting the mechanism on top of it......
this way like i am using it right now (still on mdf board) is not a way to try anything...... 😡
😀
 
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