I personally think ceramic would be brittle, perhaps unlucky touch here and there and there goes the enclosure 🙂
I was careful to keep the inside shape as close to B&W shape as possible, that is 70% sphere and then a tapered funnel, well sort of a cone.
Danny
I was careful to keep the inside shape as close to B&W shape as possible, that is 70% sphere and then a tapered funnel, well sort of a cone.
Danny
Hi, little update.
Got the Eminence Delta 12LFAs a couple of days ago, and made some test baffles and H frame baffles for them.
I wanted to try H frame for the bottoms and place them with drivers facing away from each other to see if I get some bass output. Well in short... yes you get output, but anything above 150Hz is missing, or perhaps even lower, I only had a low tech RHSound active crossover to try. Could not set the frequency quite good.
Then I used an Onkyo 696 receiver and used the SUB out for the Deltas. I was surprise how better it was with the Sigmas.
Anyway, a small mishap (small for my son, BIIIG for me) happened. He touched the Sigma and punched a hole in it 🙁 Now i have to get one and have it brake in for about 500hrs same as the other one.
Picture from the test rig.
P.S.: teardrop enclosures are with furniture maker to get them turned down to final shape, then will follow sealing the wood in and painting either black piano or white pearl.
Danny
Got the Eminence Delta 12LFAs a couple of days ago, and made some test baffles and H frame baffles for them.
I wanted to try H frame for the bottoms and place them with drivers facing away from each other to see if I get some bass output. Well in short... yes you get output, but anything above 150Hz is missing, or perhaps even lower, I only had a low tech RHSound active crossover to try. Could not set the frequency quite good.
Then I used an Onkyo 696 receiver and used the SUB out for the Deltas. I was surprise how better it was with the Sigmas.
Anyway, a small mishap (small for my son, BIIIG for me) happened. He touched the Sigma and punched a hole in it 🙁 Now i have to get one and have it brake in for about 500hrs same as the other one.
Picture from the test rig.
P.S.: teardrop enclosures are with furniture maker to get them turned down to final shape, then will follow sealing the wood in and painting either black piano or white pearl.
Danny
Attachments
I'm doing some ceramic spherical enclosures. I have to take care until they are fired, after that they should be sturdy enough. 😀
Ahoj Jakub 🙂
Please post pics also in this thread, you can hijack as much as you want 🙂
Show us your enclosures.... and ideas, construction techniques etc.
Danny
Please post pics also in this thread, you can hijack as much as you want 🙂
Show us your enclosures.... and ideas, construction techniques etc.
Danny
Ahoj Jakub 🙂
Please post pics also in this thread, you can hijack as much as you want 🙂
Show us your enclosures.... and ideas, construction techniques etc.
Danny
Please post pics also in this thread, you can hijack as much as you want 🙂
Show us your enclosures.... and ideas, construction techniques etc.
Danny
So some progress... pics of final shape.
next filler and elbow grease. then br tube from stainless steel.
Danny
next filler and elbow grease. then br tube from stainless steel.
Danny
Attachments
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Nice project
Hi Barakuda,
Congrats, you are nearing the end of your marathon...!
I have some experience of teardrop enclosures, mostly GRP using a hand made wooden pattern, then making a two piece mold, then hand layering up the teardrop shapes.
I spent two years messing around with internal volume and shapes, best combination of materials for cabinet walls and best internal damping materials.
Great you are using active amplification and DSP / Eq, this is essential!
I was using the Manger driver in the teardrops from 300Hz( ish) up.
If you really need to keep it two way you will have to accept some quite major sonic compromises. If you can design it as a two way with a couple ( or three) of remote subs you can really have a killer system.
Any small full range driver with a thin light cone will be prone to internal sound waves bouncing around inside the cabinet and then emerging ( out of phase) throught the cone.
Your extreme design efforts will minimise this and be well worth while, you will get just about the best possible sound out of this type of driver, certainly a cut above all the usual DIY or commercial boxes.
If you can post the driver specs of your drivers and tell me your target crossover points and slopes Ican hopefully help!
Once again well done, great effort and long term determination!
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Barakuda,
Congrats, you are nearing the end of your marathon...!
I have some experience of teardrop enclosures, mostly GRP using a hand made wooden pattern, then making a two piece mold, then hand layering up the teardrop shapes.
I spent two years messing around with internal volume and shapes, best combination of materials for cabinet walls and best internal damping materials.
Great you are using active amplification and DSP / Eq, this is essential!
I was using the Manger driver in the teardrops from 300Hz( ish) up.
If you really need to keep it two way you will have to accept some quite major sonic compromises. If you can design it as a two way with a couple ( or three) of remote subs you can really have a killer system.
Any small full range driver with a thin light cone will be prone to internal sound waves bouncing around inside the cabinet and then emerging ( out of phase) throught the cone.
Your extreme design efforts will minimise this and be well worth while, you will get just about the best possible sound out of this type of driver, certainly a cut above all the usual DIY or commercial boxes.
If you can post the driver specs of your drivers and tell me your target crossover points and slopes Ican hopefully help!
Once again well done, great effort and long term determination!
Cheers
Derek.
Attachments
Another pic
The three way "Finale" really was a step up from the two way " Encore" as I could use a dedicated low midrange driver ( 10 inch Volt 2500.4) AND run it open baffle, to cover the 80Hz to 400Hz band, this really improved the Manger above 400Hz, much lower distortion and far more dynamic plus it could go way louder compared to the 200Hz crossover point of the Encore.
At these crossover frequencies an octave makes a massive difference!
Also the raw performance of the low Mms ( 48g) 10 inch Volt was far superior to the 110g Mms of the 12 inch Beyma 12LX60 when they both covered the same 80Hz to 400Hz band.
Of course if you needed the one driver to cover bass AND low midrange then the Beyma was way superior, BUT it could only run up to 200Hz or 250Hz max ( with steep 60dB per octave DSP slopes) otherwise the sound became "cuppy and muddled" in the low mids.
If you can run your design as two way floor stander with remote subs below 60Hz to 80 Hz you can choose a killer low mid driver ( Volt or PHL rule in this band) and then really great sealed box subs using the fantastic 12 inch sub driver from Beyma, the 12SW 1300 Nd .
Cheers
Derek.
The three way "Finale" really was a step up from the two way " Encore" as I could use a dedicated low midrange driver ( 10 inch Volt 2500.4) AND run it open baffle, to cover the 80Hz to 400Hz band, this really improved the Manger above 400Hz, much lower distortion and far more dynamic plus it could go way louder compared to the 200Hz crossover point of the Encore.
At these crossover frequencies an octave makes a massive difference!
Also the raw performance of the low Mms ( 48g) 10 inch Volt was far superior to the 110g Mms of the 12 inch Beyma 12LX60 when they both covered the same 80Hz to 400Hz band.
Of course if you needed the one driver to cover bass AND low midrange then the Beyma was way superior, BUT it could only run up to 200Hz or 250Hz max ( with steep 60dB per octave DSP slopes) otherwise the sound became "cuppy and muddled" in the low mids.
If you can run your design as two way floor stander with remote subs below 60Hz to 80 Hz you can choose a killer low mid driver ( Volt or PHL rule in this band) and then really great sealed box subs using the fantastic 12 inch sub driver from Beyma, the 12SW 1300 Nd .
Cheers
Derek.
Attachments
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Hi Derek.
Thank you. It is indeed long term project. I work abroad most of the time, and when home I am spending almost all the time with wife and kids....so yes I know it takes very long time to finish. But its more of a development as well.
The driver will be FE168EZ Sigma, not sure if to use T90A or not, perhaps I can add that later.
For lows, I have 2x delta 12LF at hand, but that has time. In my small living room even without sub I get quite good bass out of these with some minor EQ. Listening levels are very low, so no problem with Xmax.
Yes I know your designs 🙂 I have discovered them about 6 month ago when looking for speakers using Manger drivers 🙂
Until I don't move to a house, big subs and big speakers are OVERKILL ( : ) ) for this apartment.
Danny
Thank you. It is indeed long term project. I work abroad most of the time, and when home I am spending almost all the time with wife and kids....so yes I know it takes very long time to finish. But its more of a development as well.
The driver will be FE168EZ Sigma, not sure if to use T90A or not, perhaps I can add that later.
For lows, I have 2x delta 12LF at hand, but that has time. In my small living room even without sub I get quite good bass out of these with some minor EQ. Listening levels are very low, so no problem with Xmax.
Yes I know your designs 🙂 I have discovered them about 6 month ago when looking for speakers using Manger drivers 🙂
Until I don't move to a house, big subs and big speakers are OVERKILL ( : ) ) for this apartment.
Danny
Long term project
Hi Danny,
I agree family first, work second then DIY audio!
If you listen at low levels and dont need the bottom octave of deep bass then you can get a fab result with a pair of 12 inch drivers in open baffle covering 40Hz to 250Hz ( give or take a bit ) then your full range above that.
An alternative that would fit the cool asthetic you have posted a few pages ago is the one bigger ( 15 inch or 18 inch) driver in a side on open baffle configeration.
You would need to crossover lower, around 150Hz to 180Hz using the side on set-up, but that should be ok if you dont need higher SPL's.
The Precision Devices PD158 is really beautiful over this frequency band and has a very high sensitivity of 98dB so will easily blend with high efficiency / light coned full rangers.
The attched pic is actually a three way (I like the lowest octave, and loud!) using a 15 inch beyma below 80Hz then the 15 inch PD 158 from 80Hz all the way up to 600Hz to meet the open baffle Manger ( sealed the Manger is good down to 300Hz) and it really was gob smacking. Big, ugly, impractical and very expensive but Oh my god it sounded great!!
As a bonus.... You can always add the sealed subs in a few years when you move house!!
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Danny,
I agree family first, work second then DIY audio!
If you listen at low levels and dont need the bottom octave of deep bass then you can get a fab result with a pair of 12 inch drivers in open baffle covering 40Hz to 250Hz ( give or take a bit ) then your full range above that.
An alternative that would fit the cool asthetic you have posted a few pages ago is the one bigger ( 15 inch or 18 inch) driver in a side on open baffle configeration.
You would need to crossover lower, around 150Hz to 180Hz using the side on set-up, but that should be ok if you dont need higher SPL's.
The Precision Devices PD158 is really beautiful over this frequency band and has a very high sensitivity of 98dB so will easily blend with high efficiency / light coned full rangers.
The attched pic is actually a three way (I like the lowest octave, and loud!) using a 15 inch beyma below 80Hz then the 15 inch PD 158 from 80Hz all the way up to 600Hz to meet the open baffle Manger ( sealed the Manger is good down to 300Hz) and it really was gob smacking. Big, ugly, impractical and very expensive but Oh my god it sounded great!!
As a bonus.... You can always add the sealed subs in a few years when you move house!!
Cheers
Derek.
Attachments
Hi Derek.
I will be making some small woofer (no sub frequency) boxes to support the fostex and also to take away some excursion from the full ranger. lets say I'd go for 100-120Hz xover. Not sure on that one yet. I do not pursue earthquake bass in apartment house, simply not possible with the neighbours. After the test I done with the Delta 12LF, it was obvious any big Sd driver is out of the question. I had my family coming back to the living room and telling me that there is too much bass in other rooms. No, I don't have space now for multiple subs....
But when the Sigmas will be playing, I will have some time to think about the supporting woofer.
There are a lot of changes and EVOLUTIONS in this design, as I test and listen and have to adjust to please everybody 🙂 to keep the wolf fed and the sheep whole....
Danny
I will be making some small woofer (no sub frequency) boxes to support the fostex and also to take away some excursion from the full ranger. lets say I'd go for 100-120Hz xover. Not sure on that one yet. I do not pursue earthquake bass in apartment house, simply not possible with the neighbours. After the test I done with the Delta 12LF, it was obvious any big Sd driver is out of the question. I had my family coming back to the living room and telling me that there is too much bass in other rooms. No, I don't have space now for multiple subs....
But when the Sigmas will be playing, I will have some time to think about the supporting woofer.
There are a lot of changes and EVOLUTIONS in this design, as I test and listen and have to adjust to please everybody 🙂 to keep the wolf fed and the sheep whole....
Danny
Seas 8 inch for OB bass
Hi Danny,
I understand a bit better your goals now.
The Seas Excel w22 8 inch driver or its bigger 10 inch brother is a great choice for open baffle bass below 250Hz. A pair of 8 inch (or 1 10 inch) will give great results down to 35Hz to 40Hz. Have a look at the acrylic cabinets in post 88.
They will fill your room with great sounding natural bass, but Not annoy the neighbours with shock waves going through walls.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Danny,
I understand a bit better your goals now.
The Seas Excel w22 8 inch driver or its bigger 10 inch brother is a great choice for open baffle bass below 250Hz. A pair of 8 inch (or 1 10 inch) will give great results down to 35Hz to 40Hz. Have a look at the acrylic cabinets in post 88.
They will fill your room with great sounding natural bass, but Not annoy the neighbours with shock waves going through walls.
Cheers
Derek.
I need help with one thing.
I need to shape the transition from driver to the enclosure, and I will be using two part body filler for car industry.
My question is, what material will NOT stick to the filler? I have to make a 4mm thick disk that will create the edge of the driver and shape the enclosure to match its diameter and height.
Danny
I need to shape the transition from driver to the enclosure, and I will be using two part body filler for car industry.
My question is, what material will NOT stick to the filler? I have to make a 4mm thick disk that will create the edge of the driver and shape the enclosure to match its diameter and height.
Danny
Non sticky stuff
Hi Danny,
Sorbothane hould work well as its very difficult to stick anything to.
Whatever material you end up using there are good "mold release agents" that are specifically designed to coat one surface so that it does not stick to the mold, you could try coating that onto your chosen material.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Danny,
Sorbothane hould work well as its very difficult to stick anything to.
Whatever material you end up using there are good "mold release agents" that are specifically designed to coat one surface so that it does not stick to the mold, you could try coating that onto your chosen material.
Cheers
Derek.
🙂 Finally came up with a design that is High WAF and also pleases me 🙂
Not sure if to show it here, as the woofer section has changed so much that at the end I'm going complete without it 🙂
Need more help, I need to convert .dwg file format to .ai format. Its for a company with a laser cutter, they are using Adobe illustrator to export files in vector format to cut the wood. I only have access to AutoCAD....
Danny
Not sure if to show it here, as the woofer section has changed so much that at the end I'm going complete without it 🙂
Need more help, I need to convert .dwg file format to .ai format. Its for a company with a laser cutter, they are using Adobe illustrator to export files in vector format to cut the wood. I only have access to AutoCAD....
Danny
I'll have a look to see if I can convert .dwg to .ai, but don't have Illustrator to check the result.
Will ping you a PM later on today.
Will ping you a PM later on today.
I did this once in the opposite direction (from .ai to .dwg).
I should be able to do it in Illustrator. PM me. 🙂
Have you ever seen this thread:
Building (2) High End Tower Speakers - Blu-ray Forum
This guy build his own copy of the B&W 800D. He also has a thread about building Kef reference speakers and has a very nicely equipped workspace.
Short youtube version: B&W 800D DIY Speaker - YouTube
Building (2) High End Tower Speakers - Blu-ray Forum
This guy build his own copy of the B&W 800D. He also has a thread about building Kef reference speakers and has a very nicely equipped workspace.
Short youtube version: B&W 800D DIY Speaker - YouTube
Thanks for the link. Amazing job over there. I am afraid I don't have access to such tooling, thats why its taking so long, that and my job. OFC his middle section is more elaborate, detailed on the inside and little bit different shape (longer, sleeker).
I am happy with what I achieved with the method ON A KNEE 🙂
Shortly i will be sanding and shaping etc the surface to prepare for paint.... White High Gloss BMW paint 🙂
Danny
I am happy with what I achieved with the method ON A KNEE 🙂
Shortly i will be sanding and shaping etc the surface to prepare for paint.... White High Gloss BMW paint 🙂
Danny
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