Yeah, I noticed pretty good peaks @ 2K and 4KHz.Dr. ODD said:
It was pretty smooth before that, then goes back down to the same level again, then peaks again @ 10K & 20K.
I was wondering if they were harmonics, and if some would filter them out electronically, seen it work enought times before.
Although this would probably more appeal to the "purist" crowd who would be less likely to try filters....
Or if anyone was brave enough to try messing with the driver itself, without messing it up...
Also, looking @ the graph, it seems strange they would claim frequency range "fs to 30k", it's already down more than 10 dB way before there...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/FE138ES-R.pdf
I guess that's why Kloss (who's built more than a few speakers) used a tweeter...
Maybe there's another resonate peak @ 30K (like the one's @ 10K & 20K, & that's what they're calling "response to 30K..."
Maybe a filter would be worth using.
I just don't like the idea of addressing an acoustic problem electrically...
What all have people tried so far with these drivers, and who likes what best, and why?
Dr ODDs sealed boxes,
Several pair of BVRs,
Kloss's Swans & Nessies,
FLHs...
Anyone have frequency response graphs besides the one Dr ODD posted?
Nice mids in 250 Hz LeCleach horns, but of course, no bottom end.
ianc13 said the BVRs have "not heaps of bass" either.
Kloss said (elsewhere) the Nessie towers went to 45 Hz.
Any one else have thoughts on what to build...
r
Maybe a filter would be worth using.
I just don't like the idea of addressing an acoustic problem electrically...
What all have people tried so far with these drivers, and who likes what best, and why?
Dr ODDs sealed boxes,
Several pair of BVRs,
Kloss's Swans & Nessies,
FLHs...
Anyone have frequency response graphs besides the one Dr ODD posted?
Nice mids in 250 Hz LeCleach horns, but of course, no bottom end.
ianc13 said the BVRs have "not heaps of bass" either.
Kloss said (elsewhere) the Nessie towers went to 45 Hz.
Any one else have thoughts on what to build...
r
serenechaos said:
...i don´t want to bother or offend you, but did you ever heard them ??
they don´t need a notch-Filter.
...and they definetly don´t need a super-tweeter, no, really,
they don´t, never.
the performance of the es-R´s in the high frequecies is on of the best i´ve EVER heard.
way beyond the Fe168eSigma i had before or the old ACR Fe103sigma my best friend have
(wich are the only FR-Drivers i can compare them today, but i used to work at a hifi-store
in the past) and no one consider adding a tweeter to the 168sigmas nor the fe103.
well, look at the graph published by Fostex, what do you see? the response is flat at 90db
from 150hz to 1500hz then there´s a small peek at 2khz, some big peeks at 5khz and
10kz, but you you still have the 90db from 15kz to 20khz. there are only a few drivers,
that still have the same SPL at 20khz they have at1khz.
and look at the graph more closely, the line is for zero dergree offset, and below that there
are these doted lines for 30 degree and 60 degree driver offset, in which the peak at 10khz
is gone, what does that mean ? i don´t say that these peaks doesn´t count, the conclusion
of the peaks at zero degree and the much lower response at 30 and 60 degree is, that
the es-R´s are very critical about speaker placement, they are quite beamy, and
they do have a sweet spot.
No, I'm not offended, not in the least!
Yes, I've heard them.
I have a pair.
Have you heard them with super tweeters?
I haven't, so I can't rule that out.
I also have 108 es-rIIs which supposedly don't need super tweeters, but everyone who can hear that high can hear the difference...
Yes, looking @ the graph closely...
Don't the peaks look like recurrent harmonics just before 5K?
5k, doubles @ 10, doubles @ 20?
A notch that smooths the first, kills the others.
If you're good @ building notch filters, that don't mess with anything else...
(Might be difficult, that's a 10dB peak)--
I haven't tried, don't like the concept in general, but I've heard it work; e.g. Merlin.
Just throwing out ideas, wondering what's been tried.
Realizing most people won't want to add electronics to a wide-range driver, but someone said a magazine had already published a recommended filter.
I'd like to see the details, and to hear it.
Might really smooth things out, might take the life out of it...
Many won't even want to add a woofer or tweeter...
That's what I was hoping for, something that simple...
YMMV...
Yes, I've heard them.
I have a pair.
Have you heard them with super tweeters?
I haven't, so I can't rule that out.
I also have 108 es-rIIs which supposedly don't need super tweeters, but everyone who can hear that high can hear the difference...
Yes, looking @ the graph closely...
Don't the peaks look like recurrent harmonics just before 5K?
5k, doubles @ 10, doubles @ 20?
A notch that smooths the first, kills the others.
If you're good @ building notch filters, that don't mess with anything else...
(Might be difficult, that's a 10dB peak)--
I haven't tried, don't like the concept in general, but I've heard it work; e.g. Merlin.
Just throwing out ideas, wondering what's been tried.
Realizing most people won't want to add electronics to a wide-range driver, but someone said a magazine had already published a recommended filter.
I'd like to see the details, and to hear it.
Might really smooth things out, might take the life out of it...
Many won't even want to add a woofer or tweeter...
That's what I was hoping for, something that simple...
YMMV...
Ribbon is a LCY K100 a super tweeter
And the fe138esr doesn't really need the super tweeter but crossed over very hi it adds air and space to image. I tend to over kill. Bass is good but reduced in level I measured 45 hz but at reduced output. Still from time to time bass on movies surprised me with how deep and you can feel a wee bit of pressure. If anything fe138esr is a bit hard on top takes many many hours to smooth out. I m also using fe138esr in a 3 way design as a wide band mid. Think I will hi-pass it. I listed the fe138esr TL for sale but markets tight. Wish I could keep all I build but loudspeakers need to move or hard to afford messin about.
And the fe138esr doesn't really need the super tweeter but crossed over very hi it adds air and space to image. I tend to over kill. Bass is good but reduced in level I measured 45 hz but at reduced output. Still from time to time bass on movies surprised me with how deep and you can feel a wee bit of pressure. If anything fe138esr is a bit hard on top takes many many hours to smooth out. I m also using fe138esr in a 3 way design as a wide band mid. Think I will hi-pass it. I listed the fe138esr TL for sale but markets tight. Wish I could keep all I build but loudspeakers need to move or hard to afford messin about.
45Hz @ what output?
Does anyone have frequency response graphs, in cabinets?
Or F3, F10, etc?
I too was thinking I would make a good wide-band mid, in a three-way FLH (with a sub) or with some kind of simple, single-driver, take-what-you-get kind of thing.
By itself it should be good enough for reduced volume, small group & acoustic music? I'm hoping...
Thanx,
Robert
Does anyone have frequency response graphs, in cabinets?
Or F3, F10, etc?
I too was thinking I would make a good wide-band mid, in a three-way FLH (with a sub) or with some kind of simple, single-driver, take-what-you-get kind of thing.
By itself it should be good enough for reduced volume, small group & acoustic music? I'm hoping...
Thanx,
Robert
Yup, a little over a hundred hours on 'em & they've smoothed out noticeably.serenechaos said:
Very nice tone, just a little of that "harsh & peaky," but not near as bad.
See what some more time does...
Anyone have any Frequency Response graphs for any cabs yet?
FR is audibaly "tipped" from bottom to top in the (totally wrong) TL I have them in for break-in.
Haven't decided yet what to build for them...
thanx,
r
(quote taken from 167 thread)planet10 said:
dave,
have you messed with enable /mod podge on 138s?
(thinking it may reduce the Q of cone's resonances on this one too, if one had an idea of how much where...)
just an expensive experiment...
thanx,
r
Robert -
We've played with the F120A and FX120, but so far like many pleasures available over the internet, we've only enjoyed he FE138ESR vicariously.
If you or any others have a pair to spare for experimentation (as did JimR with the F120A) , we're game.
We've played with the F120A and FX120, but so far like many pleasures available over the internet, we've only enjoyed he FE138ESR vicariously.
If you or any others have a pair to spare for experimentation (as did JimR with the F120A) , we're game.
From what I have seen at Hobby Hifi this driver could really be a dream for "Mr. Phaseplug" planet10. There is a very steep break-in of the off-axis-response at 5kHz and everything that comes above 10 kHz seems to be a (relatively well-damped) narrow-band resonance of the magnesium dustcap at 20 kHz.
Any idea where to get hobby hi-fi in the U.S.?
I'd sure like to see that article...
I can't afford another pair to "experiment" with; and being these cones at least look and feel different that "regular" fostex drivers I'm rather apprehensive about experimentation...
Maybe just painting the "Bud dots"?
And experiment with the (reversable) notch filter...
-Interesting point (to me) is otherwise how they are "warming up," to the point I actually like a small PP amp better than my favorite (warm) SET.
r
I'd sure like to see that article...
I can't afford another pair to "experiment" with; and being these cones at least look and feel different that "regular" fostex drivers I'm rather apprehensive about experimentation...
Maybe just painting the "Bud dots"?
And experiment with the (reversable) notch filter...
-Interesting point (to me) is otherwise how they are "warming up," to the point I actually like a small PP amp better than my favorite (warm) SET.
r
serenechaos said:
It`s the second harmonic that results from a strong asymmetry (like in an SE amp compared to PP).
Thanks! I hadn't heard it called K2 before.
That's the effect I'm talking about though.
The "pleasant warming" of an SE amp (doubling/octave sound of second harmonic) is too much with some material @ this time; apparently because the driver is having the same affect on its own...
That's the effect I'm talking about though.
The "pleasant warming" of an SE amp (doubling/octave sound of second harmonic) is too much with some material @ this time; apparently because the driver is having the same affect on its own...
In my neighborhood, we use the letter F but then you have to decide how to number the fundamental and its harmonics. Do you start with zero or 1 for the fundamental?
For example, if the "first harmonic" is one octave above the fundamental, should it be F1 (1 for first) or F2 (2 being an even number)? F2 seems more reasonable because a plucked string divided in two yields the harmonic in question.
(It looks like the German system starts with K1 as the fundamental, and K2 is the first harmonic.)
For example, if the "first harmonic" is one octave above the fundamental, should it be F1 (1 for first) or F2 (2 being an even number)? F2 seems more reasonable because a plucked string divided in two yields the harmonic in question.
(It looks like the German system starts with K1 as the fundamental, and K2 is the first harmonic.)
rjbond3rd said:
Academics tend to call the fundamental F1, while musicians tend to call it F0. I try to avoid the issue by talking about fundamentals and overtones. I don't know it this helps or not. There is no standardization.
Bob