A larger horn has higher directivity, once again, the polar is not the same, as a smaller source...I would think that direct energy has higher tactile feedback as well...I will not claim to have a mastery of psychoacoustics....
Large drivers and horns are literally a large source (in comparison to smaller sd systems) so its not so much about if they sound bigger than smaller drivers...that part is literal and inevitable.
Apparent source width - Wikipedia
Large drivers and horns are literally a large source (in comparison to smaller sd systems) so its not so much about if they sound bigger than smaller drivers...that part is literal and inevitable.
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I agree with this thinking.
As a speaker approaches point source, how can a point give spatial clues?
It can't it seems, and that's where i believe synergies can excel.
Their sound seems to collapse and becomes hard to define where it comes from, other than from deep in the horn.
They really do sound smaller in comparison to my regular speakers using the same CD and cone drivers in a M-T or MTM.
The larger mouth makes them sound smaller still.
That's part of what i was trying to describe to Pano, using the terms 'pulling together, tighter, with imaging that extends lower in frequency'.
My expereince differs greatly
I had been listening to a 24 inch diameter horn for the past 5+ years, until the recent 6 months. Previous horn covered 250-6K Hz.
The sound was HUGE !
Textured layers and spatial clues galore.
In the past 6 months I have been experimenting with more typical direct radiator types. Not point source, as the tweeter always calls attention to itself. Odd that, the horn system with a tweeter perched way up high, did not do that.
I have found the smaller the width of the speaker system, the more there is a portrayal of "depth" but still, this depth does not compare to the immense field produced by the 24 inch diameter horn.
Of course, others' experiences may differ yet again.
I had been listening to a 24 inch diameter horn for the past 5+ years, until the recent 6 months. Previous horn covered 250-6K Hz.
The sound was HUGE !
Textured layers and spatial clues galore.
In the past 6 months I have been experimenting with more typical direct radiator types. Not point source, as the tweeter always calls attention to itself. Odd that, the horn system with a tweeter perched way up high, did not do that.
I have found the smaller the width of the speaker system, the more there is a portrayal of "depth" but still, this depth does not compare to the immense field produced by the 24 inch diameter horn.
Of course, others' experiences may differ yet again.
Hi Scott, what were you using above and below the horn that had the huge sound?
Iow, what was the entire speaker arrangement?
It sounds like you had some pretty good C-to-C spacing that gave an integrated sound.
The 'smaller sound' I've been trying to describe, I believe comes from a lack of spatial clues normally provided by speakers with non-coincident driver locations.
I think it also comes from a pattern control that is fairly constant down lower, relative to most designs, simply due to horn size. (48" x 29" etc)
Iow, what was the entire speaker arrangement?
It sounds like you had some pretty good C-to-C spacing that gave an integrated sound.
The 'smaller sound' I've been trying to describe, I believe comes from a lack of spatial clues normally provided by speakers with non-coincident driver locations.
I think it also comes from a pattern control that is fairly constant down lower, relative to most designs, simply due to horn size. (48" x 29" etc)
lol its called stereo! I'm sure you must be talking about just one channel....which if source size was a thing, one channel should be enough to display said affect....a smaller source can't produce the same polar as a large source...its that simple I think. Our ears can interpret this, can we do this with just one ear is a more interesting question at this point.
To another point that I think is under estimated... the haptic side of acoustics.
This ->
Is an "experience" I have seen commented about large woofer systems over and over.....The direct energy is responsible for this....and this also deserves a highlighting, in regards to loud speaker design and would have to be a very important variable in the formula that results in how we interpret source size. Direct energy and the physical stimulation you receive, I would think, is connected highly, where as, perceived volume is can remain the same while the direct and indirect levels can be varied. The experiment would begin with a small speaker combined with a tactile transducer...Maybe large sources (horns and large/many woofers) is in a way its own tactile transducer via direct energy.
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Tuning is definitely important to get the tonal balance right. Interesting that you think it is key for the magic too. Yes, agree that we may need to "see" better into measurements.
Very cool! Do you still have the mold? I still have John Inlow's paper mache horns for the 2" drivers. He built them off a mold too.
Amazing! That must need a big room. Interesting that you can perceive these things even in mono.
I've tried one in my system, mostly experimenting with headphones, and it was ok....but to begin to copy nature we have to acknowledge vibrational energy, no different than the sound form....comes in waves, has phase, etc, etc, and has a directional plot just like a polar, for sound...no less... thus it should in theory start at the source location of the sound....to try to recreate "the real thing".
Room's pretty big i guess. About 33ft x 17ft x 16ft vaulted ceiling. And is pretty open 2/3 it's length into another room 11 ft wide.
Not really treated at all...waay to live acoustically.
But I don't strive for indoor sound anymore.
Some years back i built a big dedicated sound room. 11,000 cu ft. Live-end dead-end. Balanced RT-60 across the spectrum. Early reflection and diffusing treatments, etc.
Truly beautiful sounding, and very quiet room (out in the country).
Was happy as a pig in ***** till i took some of the speakers outdoors for a listen. Moral of my story...i say screw rooms
