Hey folks,
Thanks for a great project. I'm starting construction this weekend on a set of Manzanitas for my mum (that's Aussie for mom) and I have a question before I cut wood. Will extending the wings along to upper edge of the baffle cause an issue? My gut says "probably" but I thought I'd ask. From an aesthetic point of view I'd rather it was there, but sound quality is of higher importance.
I'll be sure to post pic and build details.
Thanks,
Tani.
Thanks for a great project. I'm starting construction this weekend on a set of Manzanitas for my mum (that's Aussie for mom) and I have a question before I cut wood. Will extending the wings along to upper edge of the baffle cause an issue? My gut says "probably" but I thought I'd ask. From an aesthetic point of view I'd rather it was there, but sound quality is of higher importance.
I'll be sure to post pic and build details.
Thanks,
Tani.
exteded upper wing depth
You can extend the wings up to say 4" depth from the rear of the baffle plate with out serious consequences. However, when you do that you change the "F" equal frequency on the Vifa a bit and you start to excite some cavity resonances. Also, the added depth will slightly increase the efficiency of the Vifa. All of these changes are quite subtle, but can be heard. Some will like the small added weight of the Vifa at the low end of it's operating band, but I perceive it as adding a bit of muddiness to the overall presentation. You may want to experiment with a full height set of wings made from minimal material and than compare that to a set with the standard wing and decide for your self which you prefer. Please let us know what you find out!
You can extend the wings up to say 4" depth from the rear of the baffle plate with out serious consequences. However, when you do that you change the "F" equal frequency on the Vifa a bit and you start to excite some cavity resonances. Also, the added depth will slightly increase the efficiency of the Vifa. All of these changes are quite subtle, but can be heard. Some will like the small added weight of the Vifa at the low end of it's operating band, but I perceive it as adding a bit of muddiness to the overall presentation. You may want to experiment with a full height set of wings made from minimal material and than compare that to a set with the standard wing and decide for your self which you prefer. Please let us know what you find out!
More on wing depth
One thing you may consider is making a simple baffle - wing mock-up out of heavy cardboard that includes the wing depth you have proposed. After some listening time cut back the cardboard to the original Manzanita specifications. Listen again for awhile and see what you think.
One thing you may consider is making a simple baffle - wing mock-up out of heavy cardboard that includes the wing depth you have proposed. After some listening time cut back the cardboard to the original Manzanita specifications. Listen again for awhile and see what you think.
Hi John,
Thanks for your reply, though I see now that I failed to explain my question clearly. I wasn't intending on altering the depth of the existing wings, rather I want to add a matching horizontal wing to the top edge of the baffle. I've see at least one build with this addition but I can't remember any info on how it altered the performance.
Can the top edge of the baffle be extended backwards with a "wing" without deteriorating the sound?
Regards,
Tani.
Thanks for your reply, though I see now that I failed to explain my question clearly. I wasn't intending on altering the depth of the existing wings, rather I want to add a matching horizontal wing to the top edge of the baffle. I've see at least one build with this addition but I can't remember any info on how it altered the performance.
Can the top edge of the baffle be extended backwards with a "wing" without deteriorating the sound?
Regards,
Tani.
Top wing?
You can add a shallow top wing, however you will alter the performance of the Vifa Tweeter in the ways I noted in my last post. Again, you want to resist adding side or top wings deeper than about 4". As before, suggest you experiment with card board and reach your own empirical conclusions.
You can add a shallow top wing, however you will alter the performance of the Vifa Tweeter in the ways I noted in my last post. Again, you want to resist adding side or top wings deeper than about 4". As before, suggest you experiment with card board and reach your own empirical conclusions.
Sale time again. This time Parts Express has the GRS 15" woofer on sale for $25 each. If you are going to build the Ultra here's an incentive.
GRS 15PF-8 15" Paper Cone Foam Surround Woofer
GRS 15PF-8 15" Paper Cone Foam Surround Woofer
Build commenced.
Thanks again John, as I'm reasonably time limited I'll stick to your original design for the wings and leave the experimenting for another build.
I made a start on the build with some skilled help. Birch wood ply baffle with vic ash wings. The baffle will get off-white semi-gloss and the wings will be oiled and waxed.
We got the baffles cut and I mounted the drivers to check power requirements and have a little listen. Sound good already, even without wings.
Thanks again John, as I'm reasonably time limited I'll stick to your original design for the wings and leave the experimenting for another build.
I made a start on the build with some skilled help. Birch wood ply baffle with vic ash wings. The baffle will get off-white semi-gloss and the wings will be oiled and waxed.
We got the baffles cut and I mounted the drivers to check power requirements and have a little listen. Sound good already, even without wings.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
GRS 15" EUR version ??
Is this the EUR version of the GRS 15"
Lautsprecher Technik - MHB 15 Inch 8 Ohm Replacement Woofer Speaker
In the Manzanita, instead of the peerless can i use the MBH 12" version ?
Lautsprecher Technik - MHB 12 Inch 8 Ohm Replacement Woofer Speaker
Best regards
Ruferto
Is this the EUR version of the GRS 15"
Lautsprecher Technik - MHB 15 Inch 8 Ohm Replacement Woofer Speaker
In the Manzanita, instead of the peerless can i use the MBH 12" version ?
Lautsprecher Technik - MHB 12 Inch 8 Ohm Replacement Woofer Speaker
Best regards
Ruferto
Alternative Manzanita & Ultra woofers
The basic specs seem OK. However, we need to see a frequency response plot and what the Xmax values are for both woofers to provide a realistic evaluation & possible recommendation. Hopefully the manufacture - distributor can provide them.
The basic specs seem OK. However, we need to see a frequency response plot and what the Xmax values are for both woofers to provide a realistic evaluation & possible recommendation. Hopefully the manufacture - distributor can provide them.
Someone in the diy comunity done the measures for the 12" 🙂
Tiefton-Chassis MHB-12 TSP ? #360customs
How important is it that the baffle be one piece? I have seen some OB designs with each driver mounted on separate boards and i like the look of these. of course the 2 boards are the same size but they have about a half inch space between them.
Baffle requirements
Multiple piece baffles are fine as long as the gap between pieces are kept around 1/16". And the pieces are securely fastened to a rear sub-frame to prevent rattles and buzzes. Can look quite nice if done properly!
Multiple piece baffles are fine as long as the gap between pieces are kept around 1/16". And the pieces are securely fastened to a rear sub-frame to prevent rattles and buzzes. Can look quite nice if done properly!
Hi John, I must say this is a very extensive thread to read through.
I got halve way through and thought I'd ask the question if a ' button' tweeter like the Vifa OX20SC00-04 with the use of a crossover at 4Khz would improve the very top end response, and if it might be of any benefit to the high frequency dispersion in your design.
I plan to build your speaker design as I have most parts on hand and my neighbour is interested too.
Many thanks,
C.M
I got halve way through and thought I'd ask the question if a ' button' tweeter like the Vifa OX20SC00-04 with the use of a crossover at 4Khz would improve the very top end response, and if it might be of any benefit to the high frequency dispersion in your design.
I plan to build your speaker design as I have most parts on hand and my neighbour is interested too.
Many thanks,
C.M
Adding tweeter?
Thank you for your interest in this ever evolving design... Yes, one can add a tweeter if desired... one of the nice aspects of this DIY project. However, to properly integrate a tweeter will require a bit of crossover work. The little 3.5" Vifa is flat (with current trap) past 18K at 30 degrees off axis measured near field on the front side of the baffle. And it is flat at 60 degrees up to around 10K assume the same measurement method. This is similar to a good 1" tweeter.
A 3/4" tweeter can improve slightly on this, but is it worth the work? You would need to determine at what frequency you want to cross and using what order rate. And as soon as you add the tweeter you now have a 3 way with possible efficiency gain in the new mid range band pass. So, some level adjustment may be required on the Vifa 3.5". And that will require adjustments to the current 3.5" crossover components to preserve the current crossover summation with the woofer. And I am just getting started here!
The whole point is that as you can see there can be a LOT of work. Now it is possible for one to add a tweeter with a simple cap and pad resistor and get some improvement in system performance. But it is not likely. But hey, it's yours and you can experiment to your hearts content! Let us know how it goes and good luck!
John
Thank you for your interest in this ever evolving design... Yes, one can add a tweeter if desired... one of the nice aspects of this DIY project. However, to properly integrate a tweeter will require a bit of crossover work. The little 3.5" Vifa is flat (with current trap) past 18K at 30 degrees off axis measured near field on the front side of the baffle. And it is flat at 60 degrees up to around 10K assume the same measurement method. This is similar to a good 1" tweeter.
A 3/4" tweeter can improve slightly on this, but is it worth the work? You would need to determine at what frequency you want to cross and using what order rate. And as soon as you add the tweeter you now have a 3 way with possible efficiency gain in the new mid range band pass. So, some level adjustment may be required on the Vifa 3.5". And that will require adjustments to the current 3.5" crossover components to preserve the current crossover summation with the woofer. And I am just getting started here!
The whole point is that as you can see there can be a LOT of work. Now it is possible for one to add a tweeter with a simple cap and pad resistor and get some improvement in system performance. But it is not likely. But hey, it's yours and you can experiment to your hearts content! Let us know how it goes and good luck!
John
I did this. Adding the tweeter helped treble response in my room.
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/vifa-tc9-plus-helper-tweeter-on-open-baffle/
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/vifa-tc9-plus-helper-tweeter-on-open-baffle/
Thanks John for the prompt reply.
I will indeed 'experiment', loudspeaker design is a tweaker's delight particularly if the foundational work has already been done for you.
The reason for the inclusion of a dome tweeter ( of whatever material make) is that I find 'cone' tweeters tend to have a 'dryness' to their high frequency sound reproduction, where a 'sweeter' character to the HF sound reproduction may be more desirable.
Of course this is all about the subtlety in personal taste, which makes OB design so varied and intriguing.
C.M