Agreed - it is a bit apples to oranges but the unequalised response of my HF10AK/XT1086 combination is far more linear than my 2344/2426 combination. And I accuse the 2344 of being the culprit. I am not talking of the CD drop-off but the wiggles.
But the 2344/2426 is still a fun one to listen too. Although I haven't for a long time because the box it is mounted to is used as a stand for a bigger one which is quite a b....h to move.
Regards
Charles
But the 2344/2426 is still a fun one to listen too. Although I haven't for a long time because the box it is mounted to is used as a stand for a bigger one which is quite a b....h to move.
Regards
Charles
2picoDumbs,
Seems the Faital handles lower cut offs than rhe Beyma. Why not a test with a 1600 hz xo and a 1300 hz ? May you please also tell what your ears prefer between both before you measure cause bias effect, please ?
That's a nice benchmark you are about to do
Just seeing your message now.
Ok test with ears first.
There is one that look fantastic : the 1440 but needs a filter to pad down/flat, the 1k to 3000K to let the spl slow downnaturally after as the datasheet ! Would make on paper an ideal one for a 2 way with a 700 hz XO ! At least according the Faital horn it was measured--- there are no peak and hole in the spl curve on the datasheet above 1K !! 1/2 octace smoothing ??
The 1440 is pretty new so it just needs to proove that it can compete with 10AK in the hf. Guess it will take some time until more people test the 1440. But it definitely could be a great driver. It's just that I think that a 1,4" will always be a compromise in hf.
Edit: That area 1k-3k doesn't look problematic. You will need to measure it with your own horn anyway.
Edit: That area 1k-3k doesn't look problematic. You will need to measure it with your own horn anyway.
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A little bit: "apple and pears comparison"
HF1440 vs HF10AK:
You could not compare these two drivers. The HF1440 is usable (with the right horn) from approx. 500Hz for home use and is only 100dB above 10KHz, while the HF10AK works from 1,5KHz up to 20KHz with nearly 110dB.
HF1440:
HF10AK
HF1440 vs HF10AK:
You could not compare these two drivers. The HF1440 is usable (with the right horn) from approx. 500Hz for home use and is only 100dB above 10KHz, while the HF10AK works from 1,5KHz up to 20KHz with nearly 110dB.
HF1440:
HF10AK
@Barossi of course you are right with the apple and the pears.
It's just that this comparison shows my last dilemma 1" vs. 1,4". It depends on what you want. And I'm going for the 1".
Btw did you already try your HF10AK? What's your impression?
-----
Depends on what you want to achieve and size of the horn and woofer, etc....
Yes i am using the HF10AK right now in my 3way setup from 4,5KHz to 20KHz.
I really like the HF10AK "silky smooth"
It's just that this comparison shows my last dilemma 1" vs. 1,4". It depends on what you want. And I'm going for the 1".
Btw did you already try your HF10AK? What's your impression?
-----
Depends on what you want to achieve and size of the horn and woofer, etc....
Yes i am using the HF10AK right now in my 3way setup from 4,5KHz to 20KHz.
I really like the HF10AK "silky smooth"
Barossi - Are these two curves measure with the same horn? If not, you cannot draw any conclusions from them. An exponential horn will measure quite flat on axis whereas a constant directivity horn (or waveguide, if you prefer) will show a drooping response above about 3kHz when using the same driver. Off axis the power response of the exponential horn will be awful while the CD horn with be (mostly) constant.
This is one of the challenges using compression drivers and horns. Each affect the other. So there is an almost infinite range of possible responses you can get from all of the products on the market (let's not even get started with baffle diffraction effects or angle entry mismatch).
This is one of the challenges using compression drivers and horns. Each affect the other. So there is an almost infinite range of possible responses you can get from all of the products on the market (let's not even get started with baffle diffraction effects or angle entry mismatch).
Only 100 db above 10k for 2.83 V... I hope it is enough in home hifi
My point is the 1440 seems more linear if Eqed on that bump I talked ! the 104k seems having a little rock 'n roll raise above 15 khz that makes its interest in hifi... for old sir as I become to be...
But yes my point is the 1440 seems easier to use in home hifi in a 2 ways. Mr Gedles says the impedance resonance of the driver is not a problem in home hifi... so the H 10AK may certainly be used lower than 1.3k. But as low as 700 hz with massive distorss even with the low spl levels (we rarely needs more than 112/115 dB dynamic short transcients...
Any thoughts ? (ok a 3 ways could be the solution but for the ones like I a that dreams of simple good enugh 2 ways, seems the limitaion comes more from the bass cone driver and the horn for the CD.... As said E Gedles again : compression drivers - I believe the right phrase was "the drivers are just comodities"... was one of the numerous thread about horn or speker enclosure iir !
My point is the 1440 seems more linear if Eqed on that bump I talked ! the 104k seems having a little rock 'n roll raise above 15 khz that makes its interest in hifi... for old sir as I become to be...
But yes my point is the 1440 seems easier to use in home hifi in a 2 ways. Mr Gedles says the impedance resonance of the driver is not a problem in home hifi... so the H 10AK may certainly be used lower than 1.3k. But as low as 700 hz with massive distorss even with the low spl levels (we rarely needs more than 112/115 dB dynamic short transcients...
Any thoughts ? (ok a 3 ways could be the solution but for the ones like I a that dreams of simple good enugh 2 ways, seems the limitaion comes more from the bass cone driver and the horn for the CD.... As said E Gedles again : compression drivers - I believe the right phrase was "the drivers are just comodities"... was one of the numerous thread about horn or speker enclosure iir !
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Didn't see your Edit answer : for me it is, at least according my tastes and habits and damped room. There is too much a spl difference between the 1 k/3k hz window I call a bump from what there are before and after, and the high end more than 12 db lost : ok at 1 meter on axis but at 3 or 4 meter 30/40° degrees off axis, it's too much imho. Here the flatness and decay from 4k hz of the 104HK and its little coquetry above 15K is a clear winner and explain to me why it's sounding good enough without having hearing it yet - I mean it's certainly better than good enough in real life if people call it the little TAD I surmise!-
Not sayin that with the Faital 1440 you want to use it from 500/700 hz : the 1k/3k bump has to be tamed for a good sound imho.
let's talk Fourier transform, my point is a good speaker is 200 hz to circa 1k/1.5k more or less flat but few db higher than what is following, a drop plateau of 3 to 5 db between 2.5k and 4.2 k hz circa then a higher plateau til 15k but a little lower (1.5/2.5 dB than the 100hz/1.k hz plateau) . What happen above 15 hz... no idea but I surmise the HF104K to be a winner here but resonant rooms and young ears... While experienced people are saying nothing indeed can beat a 1" in the highs, even expensive coax at several thousand bucks. I don't know myself I try to sketch an affordable good enough high spl two ways a la Calapamos !
That's what I meant and afaik the Faital1440 in the Faital horn could be good enough with a large notch from 1 k to 3k/3.5kz to make a plateau seen by the low end 500 to 1K hz of the driver in the right horn and good enough for what hapen above 4K hz from the Faital graph (a bit optimistic ? I mean it's very smoothhhhhhh !)
600 to 700/800 hz hz is certainly a good hint for a horn with a 15" driver ??? Cause the size ? Tad bi-radial like in mind. Just the faital 15PR400 seems from intuition to have a too light cone for handle both the low bass and climb as high as 700/800 hz without massive cone break ups . E. Gedles better chose heavy stif cones but huge motor iir in the Suma "bookshelves" and the B&C driver.
Anyone used the Hf104K from 700/800 hz in hifi casual context please ?
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I have the HF10AK on the Parts Express B-52 buyout horn. 60x90 constant directivity.
HF10AK in STH100 horn
Hi, attached images from VituixCAD. These are full "spinorama" measurements of hf10ak and sth100 horn on some of my prototype speaker. If I remember correctly it was pretty small enclosure housing sth100 and 8" + inch or two extra panel. Note, there is some DC error on the measurements since I didn't have my soundcard on proper setting when measuring these. This was one of my first measurement sets with ARTA Anyway, have fun!
Hi, attached images from VituixCAD. These are full "spinorama" measurements of hf10ak and sth100 horn on some of my prototype speaker. If I remember correctly it was pretty small enclosure housing sth100 and 8" + inch or two extra panel. Note, there is some DC error on the measurements since I didn't have my soundcard on proper setting when measuring these. This was one of my first measurement sets with ARTA
Anyway, have fun!Attachments
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