It's quite a big step to invest in all the measuring equipment and computer programmes needed to design a crossover.
I wonder how many DIY speaker builders have done this and how much a setup costs, from basic to advanced.
Can anyone answer these questions?
I wonder how many DIY speaker builders have done this and how much a setup costs, from basic to advanced.
Can anyone answer these questions?
Not really. A couple of hundred is all you need. It's the learning curve that's expensive. Pretty much like buying a basic electronic piano 🙂
I can sum up what I needed to get me started...
- Professionally calibrated microphone: € 114,32
- Phantom power/mic pré amp: € 120,00
- Measurement software, REW: free of charge
- Simulation software: Vituixcad: free of charge
- Simulation software: Xsim: free of charge
- DSP software DRC-FIR: free of charge
- Mediaplayer JRiver: about ~ € 25,--
My own spare time, lots of it: free of charge... most of it documented here...
I already had a fast PC, so that's outside of this scope.
- Professionally calibrated microphone: € 114,32
- Phantom power/mic pré amp: € 120,00
- Measurement software, REW: free of charge
- Simulation software: Vituixcad: free of charge
- Simulation software: Xsim: free of charge
- DSP software DRC-FIR: free of charge
- Mediaplayer JRiver: about ~ € 25,--
My own spare time, lots of it: free of charge... most of it documented here...
I already had a fast PC, so that's outside of this scope.
Hi,
If you talk about measuring equipment for loudspeakers:
_ microphone: range from 60 euros to 5000 euros. A 80euros Dayton or similar will be more than ok ( not usb)
_ soundcard: in the 100 euros to 5000 euros range. A Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 at 150 euros will do the job nicely
_ portable pc: in the 400euros to 5000 euros range. Let's say 400euros will bring anything you need to perform acoustic measurements.
_ mic stand and cable: don't go cheap on mic stand! K&M should be in the 60/80 euros range, mic cable ( diy in the 30euros vicinity with Mogami and Neutrik connectors, you can't beat that)
_ Software: REW is free.
_Vituixcad is free.
So if you start with nothng at all let's say 700euros and you are good to go for 90% acoustic measurements you'll ever need ( basic mic may show limits with spl greater than 1pa: 94dbspl).
If on the cheap and you already own an old portable pc... 200euros including an old soundcard and mic stand second hand, and a basic mic and cable.
If you talk about measuring equipment for loudspeakers:
_ microphone: range from 60 euros to 5000 euros. A 80euros Dayton or similar will be more than ok ( not usb)
_ soundcard: in the 100 euros to 5000 euros range. A Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 at 150 euros will do the job nicely
_ portable pc: in the 400euros to 5000 euros range. Let's say 400euros will bring anything you need to perform acoustic measurements.
_ mic stand and cable: don't go cheap on mic stand! K&M should be in the 60/80 euros range, mic cable ( diy in the 30euros vicinity with Mogami and Neutrik connectors, you can't beat that)
_ Software: REW is free.
_Vituixcad is free.
So if you start with nothng at all let's say 700euros and you are good to go for 90% acoustic measurements you'll ever need ( basic mic may show limits with spl greater than 1pa: 94dbspl).
If on the cheap and you already own an old portable pc... 200euros including an old soundcard and mic stand second hand, and a basic mic and cable.
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At the budget end of the scale, well under a ton:
Behringer ECM8000 – Thomann UK
Swissonic UA-2x2 – Thomann UK
Millenium MS 2003 – Thomann UK
And a couple of cables is all the hardware you need. (Presuming you already have a PC, and you're not just accessing the internet to ask this question via your phone)
REW and VituixCAD would be all the software needed to get started and they're both donorware, so no obligatory upfront costs.
Compared to the costs of drivers, XO components, timber, and tools to put it all together, it's nothing really.
EDIT: Note that the very budget mics like the Behringer above don't come with individual calibration files, you have to step up to about 50 quid for the Sonarworks SoundID to get that.
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Hello elviukai
Where are you getting the 10K number from?? You don't need to spend that much for a new pair of good speakers.
I have Revel Performa F206's as a yard stick. They cost less than a third of that all things considered. I was able to get a pair for dealer cost from a friend. You can also purchase floor models or b stock for cosmetic issues.
Then you have the used speaker market that if you are patient and shop around you can do quite well. At all price points.
Hello AllenB
"I have never used a commercial speaker to compare with. Just strive to make it sound like the real thing."
How long have you been doing DIY?? Start young?? I dabbled when I was a teenager but didn't get serious until I was much older. Huge difference with the information and accessible software on the internet from when I was young without it.
Rob 🙂
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It seems you forget to list one thing, "a reference speaker". Without a reference speaker, we can never know if a newly built speaker is good or bad. If it sounds bad, it would be because of the room, source, or the other audio equipments, and if it's good, you'll never know how good it is. In my opinion, the value of the audio equipments is relative, not absolute.
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Personally, i think any speaker above 10-20k euro per speaker, commercial or DIY, has lost sense of reality in terms of sonic expectations.
(By speaker, i mean even including any amplification and processing, if the speaker is self-powered.)
I can see spending many many multiples of that sum on a room to house the speakers....but there's only so much one can spend on drivers, cabinets, and electronics that can actually keep improving SQ.
Anything past 10-20K euro for a single speaker surely has to be for increasing egoic value, and not really increasing SQ.... imho.
Agree with all posters who say knowledge is key to DIY, along with the ability to make good repeatable measurements, understand the measurements, and understand how to address/correct/use the measurements to make a better speaker.
Huh, seems like the same keys for commercial, doesn't it?
Maybe the biggest difference between DIY and commercial, is testing facilities, both for design (anechoic chamber for example), and quality control (Klippel for example).
Well, add in the ability to make your own drivers i guess.
When i see a speaker costing silly amounts of money, i figure somebody just funded the manufacture's anechoic chamber...if the purchaser was lucky enough to get anything beyond massive bling 😛
(By speaker, i mean even including any amplification and processing, if the speaker is self-powered.)
I can see spending many many multiples of that sum on a room to house the speakers....but there's only so much one can spend on drivers, cabinets, and electronics that can actually keep improving SQ.
Anything past 10-20K euro for a single speaker surely has to be for increasing egoic value, and not really increasing SQ.... imho.
Agree with all posters who say knowledge is key to DIY, along with the ability to make good repeatable measurements, understand the measurements, and understand how to address/correct/use the measurements to make a better speaker.
Huh, seems like the same keys for commercial, doesn't it?
Maybe the biggest difference between DIY and commercial, is testing facilities, both for design (anechoic chamber for example), and quality control (Klippel for example).
Well, add in the ability to make your own drivers i guess.
When i see a speaker costing silly amounts of money, i figure somebody just funded the manufacture's anechoic chamber...if the purchaser was lucky enough to get anything beyond massive bling 😛
@plasnu I didn' have one. A reference speaker that is. I did own a reference headphone though, to ((be able to) judge tonality.
Yep, @ plasnu too,
I've read John Dunlavy say his 'reference' for comparing his speakers, was the Sony MDR-7506 headphones. Which gives great credence to phones, and inexpensive ones at that imo !
I still keep 3 commercial setups running for comparisons...Acoustat-X electrostats , Meyer UPA1p's (theater type box) and MTS4a's (think House of Blues mains-type box.)
Oh, and of course a trusty MDR-7506 🙂
I was just going to mention headphones. A very good, very neutral pair can be bought for $200 - $500.
Some are close ( and not nescesserely pricey). I used to have some Akg and Audio Technica which was nice. Akg was 271 iirc (very neutral - my prefered soundwise-but fragile. They lasted 10 years i think.) Audio Technica were built like a tank ( i used them for djing and cues in studio mainly, i think the ref were Ath50. Bought them in 1998 and they still are going strong! Very impressive).
7506 i have too but only because it is a 'standard' most everybody know. But i dislike their high mid emphasis and i can't withstand them longterm ( unconfortable to me).
Some Beyer and Sennheiser were ( are) good too.
7506 i have too but only because it is a 'standard' most everybody know. But i dislike their high mid emphasis and i can't withstand them longterm ( unconfortable to me).
Some Beyer and Sennheiser were ( are) good too.
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I agree krivium, i find the 7506 overly forward, overly bright.
I can't stand any headphone for very long, even the open type like Stax.
Besides, if all you do is hear bass, without any bodily sensation no matter how slight the sensation...well, it ain't bass in my book !
It is not the same anyway and will never be ( without some tweak anyway) : without inter aural bleeding you can't have the same feeling as we listen usually.
In studio we use them for frequency response check. It should give an hint on what they can ( potentially) be good for.
But like every gear better be used to them anyway...😉
And i agree with Mark about bass. That said if you are used to the pair you own it might be way better bass than loudspeakers badly located in an awful room! Lol.
In studio we use them for frequency response check. It should give an hint on what they can ( potentially) be good for.
But like every gear better be used to them anyway...😉
And i agree with Mark about bass. That said if you are used to the pair you own it might be way better bass than loudspeakers badly located in an awful room! Lol.
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