For me diy is more tuning speakers to my wishes. I know i can't beat (at the moment, you never know...) the top of neutral speaker, or build the ultimate studio monitor with the little resources and knowledge i have. Even if i posted a while ago about a project to make a what i called "kind of studio monitorl lke speaker". That project is not to make a real top level studio monitor, but a more neutral speaker fit for the purpose, and that fit my budget.
But i like a kind of sound colouration on my speakers, and i don't find those in commercial offerings (at least not at reasonable prices). So i try to build them myself as good as i can. And i enjoy the study and the builds. I like those more than what i can afford in shops. And i also can choose the styling and finish i like as i think most commercial speakers are very ugly in their glossy plastic or veneered cabinets. And a lot of commercial hi end speakers like those ridiculous expensive Wilson Audio speaker are actually not that good engineered, they sound bad to my ears. Idem with coloured sound like the very popular Devore Orang Otangs, they don't sound that good and i know i can do better with the same drivers for a lot less money.
But if i wanted to build a real commercial studio and need real neutral monitors, those won't be diy (at least not by me) because commercial offerings are way better at being neutral, wide dispertion speakers and will fit that purpose better. And the amps won't be tubes or class A like i use at home, but high quality class D as those are more neutral. Companies like Kef, Kii Audio, Genelec and a few more put so much research and skills in their build that i don't think that any diy'er can beat that, and certainly not me.
But i like a kind of sound colouration on my speakers, and i don't find those in commercial offerings (at least not at reasonable prices). So i try to build them myself as good as i can. And i enjoy the study and the builds. I like those more than what i can afford in shops. And i also can choose the styling and finish i like as i think most commercial speakers are very ugly in their glossy plastic or veneered cabinets. And a lot of commercial hi end speakers like those ridiculous expensive Wilson Audio speaker are actually not that good engineered, they sound bad to my ears. Idem with coloured sound like the very popular Devore Orang Otangs, they don't sound that good and i know i can do better with the same drivers for a lot less money.
But if i wanted to build a real commercial studio and need real neutral monitors, those won't be diy (at least not by me) because commercial offerings are way better at being neutral, wide dispertion speakers and will fit that purpose better. And the amps won't be tubes or class A like i use at home, but high quality class D as those are more neutral. Companies like Kef, Kii Audio, Genelec and a few more put so much research and skills in their build that i don't think that any diy'er can beat that, and certainly not me.
Very true. And all the more reason that a DIY speaker builder should use a design by one of the highly regarded experts with that experience rather than trying to create a design himself.
It's still a DIY project with the terrific value proposition of producing a speaker with performance comparable to a commercial product costing as much as ten times the amount the DIYer will pay for the parts himself.
That said, there are still some DIYers who simply want the learning experience of doing their own design. No problem with that as long as they don't expect the same level of performance as they would likely get with a proven design by one of the really experienced people.
Many of the most knowledgeable and experienced speaker builders don't take that approach. Their journey is more of a continuous exploration which doesn't really stop for long enough to take out a can of paint and call a finished design.
The quality of DIY kits/projects is highly variable so your statement can be true for some projects but certainly not for all and quite the opposite of true in many cases.
The potential economic benefit of DIY also increases with larger and more complex speakers (the economic benefit is marginal at best for a budget 2-way bookshelf but potentially huge for a high-SPL, low distortion 4-way)
Finally, DIY can offer you choices of design, construction, color and finish which simply don't exist commercially.
If someone was looking for value-for-money, I wouldn't suggest building your own speakers. It would be much cheaper and easier to buy secondhand speakers and sell on if they don't suit. Rinse and repeat, until you find something you're happy with.
Diy for me is a hobby. I like the fact that there is no perfect speaker, and with every build, I seem to learn something new. I'm always convinced that my next build is going to be my perfect speaker, but it never is
You only have to look at all the loudspeaker measurements over at Stereophile, and all the other places, to see that even designs from well established manufacturers aren't always great, so it shouldn't be a surprise to find that most diy designs aren't that great either. I'm sure there must be more than a few excellent diy designs out there. They can't all be bad, can they?
Diy for me is a hobby. I like the fact that there is no perfect speaker, and with every build, I seem to learn something new. I'm always convinced that my next build is going to be my perfect speaker, but it never is
You only have to look at all the loudspeaker measurements over at Stereophile, and all the other places, to see that even designs from well established manufacturers aren't always great, so it shouldn't be a surprise to find that most diy designs aren't that great either. I'm sure there must be more than a few excellent diy designs out there. They can't all be bad, can they?
Most of my skills are in building tube amps, but I've put together one or two speakers over the years, so I'd class myself as more than a beginner but less than a "designer" when it comes to crossovers and matching units. I could only use online calculators to construct a crossover, which might work after a few experiments but wouldn't be up to commercial quality.
However one solution which I don't think has been mentioned is to buy a cheap older commercial speaker, in my case a 5" 2-way since it's simple and there are mountains of used ones online. Then take the units and crossovers out and house them in a much better enclosure.
What do you guys think of that kind of solution?
However one solution which I don't think has been mentioned is to buy a cheap older commercial speaker, in my case a 5" 2-way since it's simple and there are mountains of used ones online. Then take the units and crossovers out and house them in a much better enclosure.
What do you guys think of that kind of solution?
First of all one could try experimenting with the originals. Leave one as is, and try bracing the other cabinet, changing the in box absorbant, changing the type of capacitors, covering all or part of the baffle with felt, putting a thin gasket between the driver and baffle, put some foam in the reflex port. Other changes, as whacky as you like.
Compare the sound of the 2 speakers at the level you usually listen at. You are unlikely to improve any measurements. But for me (as others have said) the purpose of diy is to make a speaker that gives the sound YOU like.
Just to add, I find making decent looking boxes really difficult. But I can see that a lot of people would get huge pleasure from it.
Compare the sound of the 2 speakers at the level you usually listen at. You are unlikely to improve any measurements. But for me (as others have said) the purpose of diy is to make a speaker that gives the sound YOU like.
Just to add, I find making decent looking boxes really difficult. But I can see that a lot of people would get huge pleasure from it.
You need a workshop or at least a large room with a bench or good table to make speaker boxes. Not practical for city dwellers in smaller apartments (my case).
But there are ways to do it for a simple 2-way. A hollow concrete block is one solution - just put a front and back on it. Another I'm about to try is aluminium 4mm square box section. I have a piece 150x150x530mm. Just need a couple of hole saws to do the cutouts. I can then use a variety of very cheap older 2-way speakers for their units and crossovers and play around with them.
Or you can also strengthen the existing boxes with added outer layers plus bitumen sandwich. Or use an additional 4mm aluminium front to make it very stiff. Loads of creative fun!
Thanks for the reminder. ESLs are the only speakers i have ever built. Long before the internet
It was great fun at the time but also a discovery that electrostats.are not for me. Otoh, if one can live with their limitations diying those is really worthwhile.
No argument here. But there seems to be an obvious technological ceiling. How many diy speakers have cabinets comparable to Wilson, Magico or YG?
I think the outlook on DIY here in this thread is a bit pessimistic...
Horn/waveguide development like that from Marcel (Mabat) is on the forefront of development and may very well have influence on commercial products in years to come. That's just one great example of how DIY can push boundaries. There are lots more, if you look hard enough, where the work done is top notch.
Heck, even some commercial products like D&D originated on this forum with the help or at the very least inspiration of audio pro's like Geddes. Same goes for some Synergy builds seen on the forum, with help from the generous contribution of it's inventor Tom Danley.
With the current tools available to us DIY-ers like kimmosto's Vituixcad, Bwaslo's Xsim, REW, Hornresp etc. as well as all the important info hidden in these forums there is a wealth of information for those that want to find it. Is it a hard road to get it right? Probably, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.
Horn/waveguide development like that from Marcel (Mabat) is on the forefront of development and may very well have influence on commercial products in years to come. That's just one great example of how DIY can push boundaries. There are lots more, if you look hard enough, where the work done is top notch.
Heck, even some commercial products like D&D originated on this forum with the help or at the very least inspiration of audio pro's like Geddes. Same goes for some Synergy builds seen on the forum, with help from the generous contribution of it's inventor Tom Danley.
With the current tools available to us DIY-ers like kimmosto's Vituixcad, Bwaslo's Xsim, REW, Hornresp etc. as well as all the important info hidden in these forums there is a wealth of information for those that want to find it. Is it a hard road to get it right? Probably, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.
Precisely so. And one of the reasons why diy speakers are a viable alternative. They are not that critical in an average living room. And even in a studio control room the reflections of the console ruin the sound quality in a way.
DIYers do not have access to the right R&D facilities to develop optimal speakers. But then again, the research on that has been done 30 to 40 years ago and we have access to the results. Respected companies who performed that research for home hi fi nowadays optimize their designs to adapt in the average design living room. They know the speakers aren’t the weakest link. Companies that do professional stuff on the other hand are still lagging in development, JBL M2’s or Genelec top models, while performing very good, won’t match your design furniture.
And then the small audiophile market. Most of it is quite ill-performing, wonderfully built and ridiculously expensive design. Don’t bother.
Think of this. A very good performing microphone can be had for €500. The measurement equipment adds another few hundred. Accelerometers, BEM/FEM software, even laser interferometry is within reach. We have 3D printing for prototyping. Quite a few build their own CNC tools. We DIYers have access to possibilities that were unimaginable 40 years ago. The speaker stopped to be the weakest link long ago. And DIY (design, not do) is a serious contender if performed properly.