Glitch (my avatar) would say "Don't over think it, just do the job."
I do that from time to time. Let me give you the same advice I gave my clients... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
In my main career one of the bigger problems we used to run into was "Technician Induced Damage" (code: ID-10-T) It was the number 1 cause of repeat calls... because the fools didn't know when to stop fixing things.
The acid test will be to see how evenly they restore our rights when this pandemic thing is over.
The day they announced the "Social Distancing" requirements in Ontario, my phone simply stopped ringing. But that's okay. My pensions keep me going and I no more want to make someone else sick than to get sick myself, so I follow the guidelines and keep a couple of fingers crossed.
I see, Ontario (where I live) has just announced new and very scary figures and apparently we could be in for a one or even two year stretch. People just aren't taking this thing seriously so they had to do something.
Anyway ... back to topic.
You don't strictly need the $100 microphone, either. When I sell an HTPC I install REW and provide a nice PC condenser mic for general testing and personalization.
The trick when using a standard condenser mic. is to understand that most of them have pretty poor low and high frequency responses. Oddly enough this works out to a very close approximation of a C weighted SPL response... if you take your sweep then hit the "Change Cal" button on the left side panel, then select C weighting, it actually gives you a pretty reasonable imitation of accuracy. (The purists will object, but it does work)
I have a proper SPL meter with USB that I can plug in for critical testing.
Ok, that should be a good way to proceed Earl. I do want to refresh something just for my own feeling of saying I am giving the speaker a good shot at performing properly. Selling and buying new speakers when $50 of capacitors would have made a difference would be troubling to me. Still learning this but looks like all the black ones are Electrolytic (Hanlan brand) which are the type most likely to change over time. I think I will change all the electrolytic units on each crossover with an electrolytic of same specifications. That will address the most likely problem areas. Rest of the capacitors are higher quality so should be ok to leave alone until I invent a reason to tinker with them.
Some more pictures just for the history books.
Some more pictures just for the history books.
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Thanks for the pics Ken!
Here's a pic of the 2.8's crossover.
It has a bunch of extra parts when compared to yours.
I figure that explains the speaker slopes seen in the Stereophile review .
BTW, where did you get the crossover schematic for yours ?
You don't by chance have one for the Veritas 2.8 do you ?
Here's a pic of the 2.8's crossover.
It has a bunch of extra parts when compared to yours.
I figure that explains the speaker slopes seen in the Stereophile review .
BTW, where did you get the crossover schematic for yours ?
You don't by chance have one for the Veritas 2.8 do you ?
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That is interesting. As I understand it both speakers used the same mids/tweets. The midrange is cut off lower at 380hz on the 2.8s which I can rationalize but the tweeter is 2.5khz on both designs. Perhaps it is a marketing plan where Energy knew they could obtain better performance in the tweeters of the 1.8s but instead gave the 2.8s their best offering and gave the 1.8s a slightly lesser performance. It would be an interesting trick when a customer is doing A/B comparisons in a sales room between the two designs. Bass is a little deeper, highs are a little smoother so the 2.8 is purchased.
Space may also have created a compromise on the 1.8. Its pretty tightly populated and there is not much room to make the board bigger to fit the base. They would have to mount it to a vertical wall of the cabinet if it was any bigger.
No industry connections or any special skills for me on the crossover drawing. An internet search found it for me on this website. I did search quite a bit for info and didn't come up with much therefore figured I would post what pictures I can. The 1.8 drawing is exact to what I have.
Space may also have created a compromise on the 1.8. Its pretty tightly populated and there is not much room to make the board bigger to fit the base. They would have to mount it to a vertical wall of the cabinet if it was any bigger.
No industry connections or any special skills for me on the crossover drawing. An internet search found it for me on this website. I did search quite a bit for info and didn't come up with much therefore figured I would post what pictures I can. The 1.8 drawing is exact to what I have.
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LPG? I seem to remember their metal dome tweeters not having dispersion/phase
plastic in front of them similar to that look. This is an auto version:
LPG 26NA Aluminum Dome Car Tweeter
I'm really surprised that they would bother to notch the metal dome resonance since it
is above the audible range. I bet they are doing it for better measurements. If you want
a hard dome but with an even higher breakup this corundum dome tweeter might be interesting:
Peerless DA25TX00-08 1" Corundum Dome Tweeter
is above the audible range. I bet they are doing it for better measurements. If you want
a hard dome but with an even higher breakup this corundum dome tweeter might be interesting:
Peerless DA25TX00-08 1" Corundum Dome Tweeter
Assuming "same situation" means you also have Veritas 1.8's , I would advise proceeding with some caution.
To the best of my knowledge, Ken never did buy and install the SEAS tweeters ( or if he did, he's never mentioned it here ).
( Chris at ) Solen did recommend the SEAS 27TBFC as an electrical replacement // it's still uncertain if it physically fits or what may be required to make it fit ( you'll need to check that out for yourself ).
Crossover mods ?? My simulations show that one can drop in that SEAS and start listening ( a minor mod > a disconnection of a one capacitor might be required if you find the replacement is "too bright" ) .
To the best of my knowledge, Ken never did buy and install the SEAS tweeters ( or if he did, he's never mentioned it here ).
( Chris at ) Solen did recommend the SEAS 27TBFC as an electrical replacement // it's still uncertain if it physically fits or what may be required to make it fit ( you'll need to check that out for yourself ).
Crossover mods ?? My simulations show that one can drop in that SEAS and start listening ( a minor mod > a disconnection of a one capacitor might be required if you find the replacement is "too bright" ) .
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Assuming "same situation" means you also have Veritas 1.8's , I would advise proceeding with some caution.
To the best of my knowledge, Ken never did buy and install the SEAS tweeters ( or if he did, he's never mentioned it here ).
( Chris at ) Solen did recommend the SEAS 27TBFC as an electrical replacement // it's still uncertain if it physically fits or what may be required to make it fit ( you'll need to check that out for yourself ).
Crossover mods ?? My simulations show that one can drop in that SEAS and start listening ( a minor mod > a disconnection of a one capacitor might be required if you find the replacement is "too bright" ) .
Sorry I should have been more specific. Yes I have a set of Veritas 1.8's. Funny enough a friend of a friend gifted them to me. I have tried reaching out to Ken to see what he actually did and if he went with the SEAS. I've heard nothing. Wouldn't it be something if these were actually Ken's speakers? I know... doubtful...
OK, so I'm just going to do a bit more leg-work and double check measurements as well. at cursory glance I'm thinking it should fit. I believe the biggest difference is the magnet diameter which is probably no more than 3mm difference, likely less. When I pulled the driver assembly out I believe there's enough play to put in without having to ream out the baffle.
From the looks of it, the drivers are on back-order at Solen. Perhaps I'll touch base with them today or tomorrow. I'm not in a rush to get them however, as I needed another set of speakers like a hole in the head. HOWEVER, they're known to sound great.
Once acquired I'll pop the tweeters and and give them a listen. As one of the tweeters is good, I'll continue searching for a match but the SEAS will have to work for now. If it's too bright then we can revisit the cap mod. Pretty simple undertaking. Which cap specifically are we talking about?
It's the 1.5uF cap ( in the tweeter section ) that's part of a series LCR that's paralleled over a 4.7 ohm resistor.
- The LCR is setup as a PEQ boost that's centered at around 9.7khz).
It's that parametric EQ that might not be needed ( it's definitely a matter of taste, +/or hearing loss
) . - I'd personally keep it active for my 66yr /old ears > though I'd be inclined to shift it upwards a bit for a higher center frequency > 1uF instead of 1.5uF would likely do it by shifting the center frequency up to 11.9 khz .
PS; Ken lives in the prairies > so it would be quite a story if you ended up with his speakers.
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It's the 1.5uF cap ( in the tweeter section ) that's part of a series LCR that's paralleled over a 4.7 ohm resistor.
- The LCR is setup as a PEQ boost that's centered at around 9.7khz).
It's that parametric EQ that might not be needed ( it's definitely a matter of taste, +/or hearing loss
- I'd personally keep it active for my 66yr /old ears > though I'd be inclined to shift it upwards a bit for a higher center frequency > 1uF instead of 1.5uF would likely do it by shifting the center frequency up to 11.9 khz .
PS; Ken lives in the prairies > so it would be quite a story if you ended up with his speakers.
Sounds good. I just wrote Solen to see when they expect stock. I'll acquire a set when they are available.
In regard to the XOver I'll wait and see how it sounds. I'm only in my late 30s so hopefully my hearing is still OK...It may require the change. Any recommended caps to replace with? I could order from Solen at the same time.
Thanks!!!
I'll get back to about the cap thing within the next day or two ( I'm got a plumbing project on the go right now so need to concentrate on that ).
I do have some thoughts that I'll lay out for you.
Any idea if you can remove the plastic/grill without it pulling out the diaphragm and VC? Obviously that front housing will have to come out, but I'm hoping it's not somehow attached... ??
Tweeter Removal ?
There are some clues ( left by Ken ) within the first page of this thread .
I imagine that the protective screen is held in place by the large tear-drop shaped trim ring// gasket ( but I don't really know ) .
That mesh/screen won't have anything to do with how the tweeter is a-fixed or mounted to the baffle board .
There are some clues ( left by Ken ) within the first page of this thread .
I imagine that the protective screen is held in place by the large tear-drop shaped trim ring// gasket ( but I don't really know ) .
That mesh/screen won't have anything to do with how the tweeter is a-fixed or mounted to the baffle board .
Sorry. I should have been more clear, I'm referring to the the replacement tweeters. I'm concerned that if I remove the decorative plastic ring, the diaphragm/vc will come with. I'm not sure if it's a complete assembly. Obviously this decorative ring will have to come off before installing into/onto the teardrop shaped baffle for the speakers.
You need to get the replacement tweeter before you worry ( fixate ) about how to mount it.
The front faceplate ( of the replacement tweeter ) likely holds the diaphragm ( and most times the protective screen ) in place .
I imagine that you'll need to only remove the protective screen while then replacing the front faceplate ( of the new tweeter ) before mounting it onto the existing baffle board.
The existing hole in the baffle board may ( or may not ) need to be enlarged to accommodate any replacement tweeter.
You can see that the existing hole is a tight fit ( around the magnetic assembly ).
The front faceplate ( of the replacement tweeter ) likely holds the diaphragm ( and most times the protective screen ) in place .
I imagine that you'll need to only remove the protective screen while then replacing the front faceplate ( of the new tweeter ) before mounting it onto the existing baffle board.
The existing hole in the baffle board may ( or may not ) need to be enlarged to accommodate any replacement tweeter.
You can see that the existing hole is a tight fit ( around the magnetic assembly ).
I'm not sure what the best way to upload photo on here is but I dismantled the assembly and took some photos. It kind of fills in some of the gaps in photos that Ken took. Essentially the mesh grill of the assembly pops off (rather easily) then you unfasten the 4 screws that hold the tweeter to the assembly plate. The plate is plastic, with a hole the size of the diaphragm. I suspect there will be some modification required.
The big question will be if the decorative ring can come off the SEAS tweeter and not take the diaphragm with it. I've emailed Solen looking for feedback but haven't heard anything yet.
The big question will be if the decorative ring can come off the SEAS tweeter and not take the diaphragm with it. I've emailed Solen looking for feedback but haven't heard anything yet.
Yes, I should update this. I went with the SEAS unit. Did not change anything on the crossover except a few caps on the midrange section because they were easy to come by. Didn't modify the tweeter section at all. Don't mind the sound, don't find the tweeters too forward. Certainly nothing noticeable to me but perhaps a frequency response test would say otherwise.
I made an adapter panel with some Hdpe I had laying around. The proper way to do all this would be to make a panel from wood so a recess could be cut in the front for the tweeter and the midrange needs to be recessed into the rear of the adapter panel. The midrange is not recessed into the speaker cabinet therefore this must be allowed for in the adapter panel. Therefore my use of hdpe is far from a quality change over. Keep in mind I was doing this through the scamdemic crap and businesses were not all open to the public or unwilling to have some one walk in the door to get a small item done. I don't have a router so did not have the ability at the time to do it myself and also a custom shop was off the table also. So I compromised.
I don't think you can remove that front plate from the SEAS tweeter. I wanted that option but looking at it myself I don't think it is possible.
The midrange dome is now exposed to risk of damage. The best I can come up with is either get some metal grill material and press a piece at home to create a cover or get something like a 4" speaker grill and screw into to the adapter panel.
I can always redo the adapter panel with wood in the future. With the grill cloth in place what I have now is out of sight so out of mind.
I made an adapter panel with some Hdpe I had laying around. The proper way to do all this would be to make a panel from wood so a recess could be cut in the front for the tweeter and the midrange needs to be recessed into the rear of the adapter panel. The midrange is not recessed into the speaker cabinet therefore this must be allowed for in the adapter panel. Therefore my use of hdpe is far from a quality change over. Keep in mind I was doing this through the scamdemic crap and businesses were not all open to the public or unwilling to have some one walk in the door to get a small item done. I don't have a router so did not have the ability at the time to do it myself and also a custom shop was off the table also. So I compromised.
I don't think you can remove that front plate from the SEAS tweeter. I wanted that option but looking at it myself I don't think it is possible.
The midrange dome is now exposed to risk of damage. The best I can come up with is either get some metal grill material and press a piece at home to create a cover or get something like a 4" speaker grill and screw into to the adapter panel.
I can always redo the adapter panel with wood in the future. With the grill cloth in place what I have now is out of sight so out of mind.
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@Ken, thanks so much for updating and PM'ing me. I looked at a lot of photos of the SEAS drivers and it appears you are correct that you cannot remove the front plate.
I like what you did with the custom plate, looks very presentable. Perhaps with some more customization the original grill can be put back in but like you said will require router-ing.
I wrote Speaker Exchange in FL. They just wrote back and said they could repair my bad tweeter for $100 USD + shipping. Not a bad price considering I got the speakers for free. Presumably I'd mail both tweeters down so they could match impedance.
Given what you know now, what route would you recommend? I greatly value your opinion because you know what the speakers sounded like before AND after the mod.
I like what you did with the custom plate, looks very presentable. Perhaps with some more customization the original grill can be put back in but like you said will require router-ing.
I wrote Speaker Exchange in FL. They just wrote back and said they could repair my bad tweeter for $100 USD + shipping. Not a bad price considering I got the speakers for free. Presumably I'd mail both tweeters down so they could match impedance.
Given what you know now, what route would you recommend? I greatly value your opinion because you know what the speakers sounded like before AND after the mod.
Yes, with wood you should be able to router a groove for the original mesh grill to fit into, I was thinking about that too except that tweeter faceplate gets in the way. I beleive that is why I wanted the option to remove that faceplate. Another option I was thinking of is 3d printing the adapter I stead of doing wood. Never pursued it as I didn't have a shop near me to take the original unit to and tell them my thinking. But should be possible.
I beleive Speaker Exchange wanted the complete assembly with midrange installed. At that point I got concerned with shipping. A guy would need to build a wood box to properly mount the assembly to ensure safe transport. That is certainly the easy route. I was exposed to a vast expanse of information as shown in this thread by pursuing the DIY method. For that I am grateful and glad I went that route even if results (I obviously compromised in my execution) could be better going the Speaker Exchange route.
So it ultimately depends on if SE is giving you just the tweeter for you to mount or if they are going to fit the tweeter into the existing sub assembly. And if they do fit it into the sub assembly, are they making compromises in the tweeter performance to accommodate the mounting requirements. I don't know. I wasn't able to find something to fit the module. Perhaps they will build the module frame too. I don't know, talking with them I wasn't confident they knew exactly what the implications were, or I wasn't explaining it properly, or they were giving canned responses. Ask Speaker Exchange all the questions you need to satisfy yourself, use my posts as a guide but don't assume I have it all figured out or asked them the right questions or explained myself properly.
I beleive Speaker Exchange wanted the complete assembly with midrange installed. At that point I got concerned with shipping. A guy would need to build a wood box to properly mount the assembly to ensure safe transport. That is certainly the easy route. I was exposed to a vast expanse of information as shown in this thread by pursuing the DIY method. For that I am grateful and glad I went that route even if results (I obviously compromised in my execution) could be better going the Speaker Exchange route.
So it ultimately depends on if SE is giving you just the tweeter for you to mount or if they are going to fit the tweeter into the existing sub assembly. And if they do fit it into the sub assembly, are they making compromises in the tweeter performance to accommodate the mounting requirements. I don't know. I wasn't able to find something to fit the module. Perhaps they will build the module frame too. I don't know, talking with them I wasn't confident they knew exactly what the implications were, or I wasn't explaining it properly, or they were giving canned responses. Ask Speaker Exchange all the questions you need to satisfy yourself, use my posts as a guide but don't assume I have it all figured out or asked them the right questions or explained myself properly.