look at power handling and xmax, two are made by professional audio manufacturers, the last one is high price, with traditional "old time" mateials tailored to diy enthusiats and hifi.
the cone is very lightweight paper, and a paper surround. The ditortion rises much earlier then the 6nd430.
It is much less rugged, and the cone has more resonant modes since there is little damping.
Paper surrounds does not like all weather conditions, are relatively fragile.
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/mid-woofer/793-supravox-165gmf-mid-woofer-6-5-8-ohm-70-wmax.html
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/m...d-6nd430-16-mid-woofer-6-16-ohm-500-wmax.html
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/m...und-6nd430-8-mid-woofer-6-8-ohm-500-wmax.html
@Arez great links! I see what you mean. That Supravox might be great at lower listening levels but falls apart when driven hard. The cone is probably made of delicate angel wings 😊
The 18 sound looks like the one to beat. So now my choice is between
18 sound 6nd430 and
Beyma 6g40nd
The 18 sound looks like the one to beat. So now my choice is between
18 sound 6nd430 and
Beyma 6g40nd
@Arez I've spent some more time on the that great Italian website. The data from the Dayton ps180 looks very nice. It doesn't have enough power but it rekindled my interest in the larger ps220
Also the Hivi M4N looks amazing. It is too insensitive and doesn't handle enough power but I may check out the M6N. That one may still not handle enough power and is less sensitive than I would like......but the hivi driver looks sooooooo damn clean! And cheap and readily available where I am.
So now the contenders are:
Dayton ps220
18 sound 6nd430
Beyma 6g40nd
Hivi M6N
Really tough to find the right compromise.
Also the Hivi M4N looks amazing. It is too insensitive and doesn't handle enough power but I may check out the M6N. That one may still not handle enough power and is less sensitive than I would like......but the hivi driver looks sooooooo damn clean! And cheap and readily available where I am.
So now the contenders are:
Dayton ps220
18 sound 6nd430
Beyma 6g40nd
Hivi M6N
Really tough to find the right compromise.
Had a deeper look at the hivi unit. I found a Dayton with reasonably close T/S parameters in loudspeakerdatabase and power handling looks poor, especially in the higher frequencies.
So the Hivi M6N is out. Still a great driver for lower spl scenarios. For it's price it looks stupendously good. I would definitely use them for some bookshelf speakers.
So I am back to these three candidates:
Dayton ps220
18 sound 6nd430
Beyma 6g40nd
So the Hivi M6N is out. Still a great driver for lower spl scenarios. For it's price it looks stupendously good. I would definitely use them for some bookshelf speakers.
So I am back to these three candidates:
Dayton ps220
18 sound 6nd430
Beyma 6g40nd
Also was measured and evaluated by zaph audio.
I'd choose that one from those 3 options.
It is a well tested, good performing, well behaved 6" mid/midwoofer, available for a reasonable amount of money.
Also B&C, Faital, Sica, PHL, Lavoce, SB Audience, SB acoustics, Wavecor, BMS, Scanspeak etc can have suitable driver. Take your time in choosing.
Take a look at the SB Satori MR16P-4 for example.
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/satori/satori-mr16p-8
Also be aware Beyma has a larger selection of drivers available then what they're webpage shows.
Outddors, car audio etc. USspeaker.com has a good selection of the 6".
http://www.zaphaudio.com/index.html
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements
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After some more tinkering and deliberating I have the following concept for my thankfully not MTM high SPL all first order open baffle speaker. Thanks to everyone steering me away from MTM. I have seen the light.
+2800hz ESS Heil with foam inserts to improve vertical dispersion
700-2800hz 6" 18Sound 6nd430
175-700hz 12" p audio sn-12mb II
Below 175hz 2x locally sold rebadged version of b&c 18tbw100 (higher QTS than the b&c) in very shallow H frame
+2800hz ESS Heil with foam inserts to improve vertical dispersion
700-2800hz 6" 18Sound 6nd430
175-700hz 12" p audio sn-12mb II
Below 175hz 2x locally sold rebadged version of b&c 18tbw100 (higher QTS than the b&c) in very shallow H frame
looks like a nice setup - i think the 18sound could be swapped by a more midrange-oriented speaker
I found this driver from a major local PA speaker company. It is almost identical in T/S parameters to the Beyma 8MI100.
Except for the lowly pump frame it looks very nice. Is this midrangy enough?
I like the goldilocks T/S parameters. Decent xmax combined with good extension and modestly high QMS for lively sound but not super high as many shouty full rangers. And at 23USD the price is goldilocks too. I even dig the cone colour.
I ordered one sample so I can measure how it does on distortion and off axis behavior. I don't know if it has anything like demodulation rings. Hell, I don't even know if those are a must have for high fidelity. Even the Beyma 8MI100 documentation doesn't mention demodulation rings. I guess if they sound good it's all good.
If the response is really as extended as the graph promises I could probably reduce my 4 way to a 3 way.
+2400hz ESS Heil with foam inserts to improve vertical dispersion
300-2400hz 8" Kane e200q (similar to Beyma MI100)
Below 300hz 2x locally sold rebadged version of b&c 18tbw100 (higher QTS than the b&c)
Or will the jump from 18" to 8" be too big to sound balanced?
+2400hz ESS Heil with foam inserts to improve vertical dispersion
300-2400hz 8" Kane e200q (similar to Beyma MI100)
Below 300hz 2x locally sold rebadged version of b&c 18tbw100 (higher QTS than the b&c)
Or will the jump from 18" to 8" be too big to sound balanced?
With a 12” woofer dedicated to midbass?……yes………I think you’re 100% correct. I stand by my recommendation of the B&C 8pe21 here……although marketed as an 8”, it has the directivity of a 6.5” driver yet still has the power handling and SPL to deliver on a project this size.
Isn't that too much of a blanket statement? Doesn't that depend on things like cone weight, motor strength and Inductance? The local version of the 18TBW100 is flat to 1500hz and hardly peaks after that.
Also the 300Hz is not set in stone...could be 200 or 250 and for the woofer I would experiment with higher order crossover & asymmetric crossover.
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I ran into this video from a car audio guy comparing the 8pe21 to the 18sound 8m400 and to my ears (and his) the 18sound is the better driver.........as far as can be judged through YouTube and with horrendous music.
And another one
yes.....but in this case, it's directivity that will be a problem.......plus it's a SUBwoofer with a ribbed cone...........the measurements as sighted listening road map ends here......or at least should.............
Not sure about this.
The local version has
- Frequency range 40-1500Hz
- Sensitivity 97dB
- MMS 166gr
- Frequency range 35-1000Hz
- Sensitivity 94dB
- MMS 268gr
The measured technical performance and peoples use/experience all over the diy audio forums etc, points to the opposite.
There are multiple reasons why you might think so.
The 8m400F has a much wider range it reproduces, not that it does so nicely and clean. Might tend to sound better then the 8PE21 unfiltered sure because of it's extended frequency response and other things.
Confirmation bias included.
it measures like a trainwreck in several areas. The 8MB500 is a better driver if 18S 8" are considered only.
https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/m...-sound-8m400f-mid-range-8-8-ohm-320-wmax.html
I will get the drivers anyway so I can a/b 3 way and 4 way with mini dsp to find out. I already have suitable 12 & 15" bass drivers at hand anyway. The p audio sn12-mbII and the p audio 15BM500.
The test midrange is in the mail. I just need to find some time to visit a shop in another town where I can test the 18tbw100 against a few other local drivers. There is another cheaper stamped frame driver that I cannot find parameters for but from the frequency response it seems to have very high qts, fs and sensitivity.