It is always juggling compromises..... First order is surely a extremely complicating requirement. As I mentioned before my ears usually prefer first order crossovers.
After some more A/B testing I am back to favoring the Heil as tweeter. It just gives a little more realism. Especially with crowds cheering and. Lapping in live recordings it sounds more realistic and spacious.
So this is where I am at now:
So this is where I am at now:
For comparison, my woofers have roughly 15mm xmax and Fs of around 20 Hz... a pair could move same amount of air.. but at a much higher price of course...
This p audio is not my subwoofer but my midwoofer (80-400hz). Below this I will play 4x b&c 18tbw100 with 14mm xmax. They move almost 5x more air than one 15" with 15mm xmax.
My woofers only have an fs of 37hz but DSP can fix that. I can locally get these drivers (rebadged) for around 100 USD.
I am sure there are better woofers out there but those would be many many times more costly. Especially with shipping costs and import taxes added.
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i like your setup for the B&C woofers and the tweeter
the 2 in between are perhaps oke, i miss there the reasoning
the size fits with the search for loudness
for the midrange dispersion is still important in combination with your 1st order filtering - these goals are in contrast with your goal of loudness
the first goals tell me to go about 4.5-5.5 inch your loudness goals tells us go bigger
the higher you can cross the the bigger woofer, the smaller you can go with the midrange - can you bring the crossoverpoint from 400 to 800 or even 1000 hz?
the 2 in between are perhaps oke, i miss there the reasoning
the size fits with the search for loudness
for the midrange dispersion is still important in combination with your 1st order filtering - these goals are in contrast with your goal of loudness
the first goals tell me to go about 4.5-5.5 inch your loudness goals tells us go bigger
the higher you can cross the the bigger woofer, the smaller you can go with the midrange - can you bring the crossoverpoint from 400 to 800 or even 1000 hz?
The Beyma seems to go plenty loud and seems great off axis. I feel it is a good compromise. I could always raise the crossover a little to 500 or 600hz. I even thought about making the speaker a 4.5 way by using two midranges and parallel one with a capacitor to only let it play below 900hz or so.
The Dayton point source looks very nice. Even the 8" version doesn't beam early. I could even see crossing it to the tweeter a little higher....maybe 2500 Hz?
Reviews on this unit are very positive and it is quite affordable. The T/S parameters seem very goldilocks to me.
Does anybody here own these or even better measured them? I would love some opinions on this unit. How do they hold up at higher volumes?
Reviews on this unit are very positive and it is quite affordable. The T/S parameters seem very goldilocks to me.
Does anybody here own these or even better measured them? I would love some opinions on this unit. How do they hold up at higher volumes?
Better take PHL 1130, it was compared with beyma 5g40nd and PHL turned out to be better.
I don't think a 6.5 beyma speaker would be better. So if you can buy it:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-phl-audio-1130-16-ohm-6-5-inch.html
Choose only PRO speakers, here are some tips from Hydrogen Alex message 4:
___https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/4-way-instead-of-3-way.413297/
And his advice for 4 way speakers in the pdf file:
https://dropmefiles.com.ua/ua/ZRKvYw
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looks like your listening axis will be around 130cm from the floor.......if that's ok?.......my seated listening axis is around 100cm and i'm 175cm tall. Remember your AMT has pretty awful vertical directivity so you really don't have much of a window. This thing is set to be around 250cm overall height........that means a 3m ceiling at least.
I have made some foam inserts to increase vertical dispersion of the Heils. By the way I am 200cm tall 😂
But I keep going back and forth between the AMT and the nd3st compression driver and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. The CD sounds more forward and constricted but at the same time smoother and more powerful with more brilliance without harshness.
The AMT gives more sense of space and openness and with certain sounds (like applause) it has more realism. But it also sounds thinner, duller and a little more fatiguing.
Mind you, I only tested in mono and with a less than optimal midrange driver (peerless SDS) so all of this may change when I get closer to a real speaker.
I just ordered the 15" bass drivers but still haven't decided on the midrange.
The 1130 is 16 ohm. The 1120 looks similar but 8ohm. I don't think this driver can go low enough to handle a 1st order crossover at 400 or 500hz. It only has 2mm xmax.
Still looking at the Beyma, the Supravox and the Dayton point source for midrange.
The SB acoustics Textreme drivers look awesome too but they are definitely over budget. If money wasn't an issue I would seriously look at these.
The SB acoustics Textreme drivers look awesome too but they are definitely over budget. If money wasn't an issue I would seriously look at these.
Using a monopole compression driver in an OB has gotta sound unbalanced.......i suppose you plan on a separate rr firing unit if you go that route?
The thin sound from the Heil is the rising response........shape it to flat and it sounds as good as any CD. ........but given the height of this thing and your seated height, i don't think the Heil is the best option.
So 1-2 mm is a normal course of midrange speakers, and if xmax is more, it is already midbass.
Here are reviews of different filter steepness:
6-12 dB/oct: it is clearly audible that the speakers play everything at once, sweepingly overlapping each other in bands. Detail, friability, crystal clarity, precision of timbres, recognizability of instruments - you can forget about these characteristics of sound. The system plays like several closely located broadband speakers, collapsing into a mess - especially at high volumes.Maybe this happens because highly specialized speakers have to play "not their" bands, or maybe because one note is played by several speakers spaced apart in space with the resulting phase problems.
18-24-36-48 dB/oct: as the steepness increases, there is a significant improvement in intelligibility and other important characteristics of the sound. Already at 18 dB/oct the system reaches an acceptable "clarification". Micro details, air, and after-sounds appear. The instruments in the orchestra separate from each other and become themselves, not part of the pudding. "Clarification" reaches its apogee at 48 dB/oct.
18-24-36-48 dB/oct: as the steepness increases, there is a significant improvement in intelligibility and other important characteristics of the sound. Already at 18 dB/oct the system reaches an acceptable "clarification". Micro details, air, and after-sounds appear. The instruments in the orchestra separate from each other and become themselves, not part of the pudding. "Clarification" reaches its apogee at 48 dB/oct.
This is not my experience. Sure, 1st order is way harder to do right. You need drivers that go comfortably way beyond their lower and higher crossover points. Many people scoff at first order because if you just try it it likely won't sound good. It needs careful planning and consideration and more capable and costly drivers.
Depends on the listening distance as well. It is for a very large space. Also the inserts really work. I didn't measure it yet but with white noise it sounds more even when moving off axis vertically.
I was very surprised when my p audio 15BM500 bass drivers were delivered in less than a day. Listened to them for 20 min and am very impressed. Very clean, extended and authoritive. Warm sound without muddiness. For only 60$ a piece they are incredible value. Workmanship looks flawless.
So my driver choice is all set except for the midrange. I spent a few more hours sifting through spec sheets and reading reviews and have 3 final candidates.These three seem to have the best blend of efficiency and power handling over an extended range.
For the Supravox I really wonder what it sacrifices to reach 98db sensitivity?
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