speculation
I'm looking forward to "learn by doing" in the near future after I clear some other projects.
As Lynn suggested using various sized triangles, I'm thinking of placing the longest of those directly under the legs of the basket. My speculation is that position would reduce backwave interference where it is needed most.
Any thoughts?
I'm looking forward to "learn by doing" in the near future after I clear some other projects.
As Lynn suggested using various sized triangles, I'm thinking of placing the longest of those directly under the legs of the basket. My speculation is that position would reduce backwave interference where it is needed most.
Any thoughts?
Hi Ed,
I would consider Dave's (Planet10) suggestion of some modeling clay on the basket legs (see his web site for photo's) and use some of that felt to cover the spider.
It would also help dampen any ringing sounds induced by wearing metal helmets!
I think I'll try some on my beanie! 😉
I would consider Dave's (Planet10) suggestion of some modeling clay on the basket legs (see his web site for photo's) and use some of that felt to cover the spider.
It would also help dampen any ringing sounds induced by wearing metal helmets!
I think I'll try some on my beanie! 😉
c2cthomas said:
Moray James posted (on the Full Range Forum IIRC) about a successful experiment where he put a series (shelves) of "floating" annular felt pieces between the cone & the spider. Awefully fiddly with a small driver, but bigger drivers would be easier.
dave
BudP said:
yup, the combination of GSEP and EnABl was certainly for me a case of "exponential synergy"
how the krap can a few grams of acrylic paint and magnet wire make any kind of improvement?
There are those who want, those who don't; those who care, those who don't; those who learn, those who don't; those who understand, those who don't. what can we say?chrisb said:
soongsc said:
on rereading my above post, it's clear that the "humor" might have been missed - for the record, I'm a huge fan and early adopter of the two mentioned tweaks .
I'm waiting for the limited release autographed, hemp fiber T-shirt
chrisb said:
With an EnABL pattern, of course!
We do have as store here on Maui that sells clothes made of hemp. My wife has several from the store.
I wonder if GSEP is what is happening when you ground the basket to the - terminal on the driver?
happy.gringo said:
That has been speculated, and it certainly makes sense. And with the number of vinage drivers that actually provide a terminal on the basket, it has been a known concept for a long time. Bud has just taken it further.
dave
Another customer has just received his EnABLed drivers (the prototypes for the new version of the P10 FE127)....
dave
from Eddie Vaughn (who has a set of Fonkens) http://www.vaughnaudio.com/
dave
from Eddie Vaughn (who has a set of Fonkens) http://www.vaughnaudio.com/
Just another comment re the EV comment above... Chris got Eddie on the phone and it appears Eddie's comments above are restrained... he is quite incredulous that those little rust spots can make the difference they do 🙂
dave
dave
Hi Bud,
I've been looking at the CSD response differences between the before and after ENABLE was applied. In the after shots the FR and CSD look rougher, but the way I'm interpreting the differences, it looks to me like the driver has less smoothing.
Trying to explain more clearly, if you look at the responses of the treated cones first it looks like the original measurements have had smoothing applied to the data. I'm guessing that the increased roughness of the FR and CSD responses is actually the increased data delivery that seems to go with the cone treatment.
Just some random thoughts on a Sunday morning...
Gary
Gary P's DIY page
I've been looking at the CSD response differences between the before and after ENABLE was applied. In the after shots the FR and CSD look rougher, but the way I'm interpreting the differences, it looks to me like the driver has less smoothing.
Trying to explain more clearly, if you look at the responses of the treated cones first it looks like the original measurements have had smoothing applied to the data. I'm guessing that the increased roughness of the FR and CSD responses is actually the increased data delivery that seems to go with the cone treatment.
Just some random thoughts on a Sunday morning...
Gary
Gary P's DIY page
Hi Gary,
Isn't it strange? Larger peaks, steeper angles of attack. Arguable phase alterations, without notable increases in equivalent averaged frequency response. Seemingly, every test showing that EnABL just makes the awful reality even uglier to behold.
And yet everyone to date, who has been exposed, has become infected with a complete disregard for these rather obvious proofs that EnABL is just a spoof.
It hadn't occurred to me before, but what if I am really a Magus, and I have secretly embedded an objective consciousness destroying meme, in this innocuous looking pattern of dot's. WOW!
Not exactly different from the rest of what we jumped up monkeys keep coming up with. Perhaps it will turn out to be a useful antidote, to the ever faster is objectively ever better, meme.
Nice to have you back on the audio exploration ocean. Been too long since we had your rudder to help steer with.
Bud
Isn't it strange? Larger peaks, steeper angles of attack. Arguable phase alterations, without notable increases in equivalent averaged frequency response. Seemingly, every test showing that EnABL just makes the awful reality even uglier to behold.
And yet everyone to date, who has been exposed, has become infected with a complete disregard for these rather obvious proofs that EnABL is just a spoof.
It hadn't occurred to me before, but what if I am really a Magus, and I have secretly embedded an objective consciousness destroying meme, in this innocuous looking pattern of dot's. WOW!
Not exactly different from the rest of what we jumped up monkeys keep coming up with. Perhaps it will turn out to be a useful antidote, to the ever faster is objectively ever better, meme.
Nice to have you back on the audio exploration ocean. Been too long since we had your rudder to help steer with.
Bud
EnABL'd HEMP FR8c
As the title says, I've done it. Maybe the first pair?
I was hoping to get a pair done by the master himself, but it didn't come together in time for RMAF (lack of drivers) - so - I did them myself.
The paint used was Testors "Acryl" flat black model paint. A thick and heavy paint that flows pretty well, but dries fast. Too thick for the Speedball calligraphy pens, so several sizes of artists paint brushes where used instead.
The outer ring was easy to do using the Lowther chart as a guide, after scaling it up a bit. The whizzer cone and the center of the main cone were much harder to do. The whizzer is darker than the main done, so the paint is almost invisible on the dark background - which makes it hard to see what you're doing.
The center rings are under the whizzer, so that makes it very difficult to get a guide in place. I did not do a very good job of this, nor did I get the rings as close to center as they should be. A better (flat) guide would have helped. Something to try for the next time.
The Micro Scale Gloss is not available here, so I was going to use regular acrylic gloss coat from my wife's art supplies. Bud advised against it. The Micro Scale Gloss is very hard stuff, made to protect scale models. Artist's clear coat is not. As Bud said "The small hemp cones I treated could easily have gone uncoated and as it is only got one 50% coating. More would have been a disaster." So my FR8s do not have the conformal coating. Thank you Bud, for the warning! (I wasn't crazy about acrylic on hemp, anyway).
Whizzer cone got treatment at the top and bottom. Dust cap got the 6 dash pattern and the PVA drop that dried to a point.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So does it work? Yes it does. But not quite how I thought it would.
There seems to be no change in tonal balance, no real overall change in character.
But: There is a big change in imaging. In my current set-up, the sound tended to stick to the speakers, it never really detached. Now it does. And that's a lovely improvement, for sure. There seems to be more depth to the image, width is about the same but just "better". The speakers disappear, like they do really good high end systems. Far off axis things fall apart, or that is to say, they sound like the untreated version.
Despite my rather clumsy first attempt, the EnABL does work its magic. I would not hesitate to do it again, and hope to find some Micro Scale gloss to try. You can bet the baffles will get a treatment too.
A big "Thank You" to Bud Purvine for providing this information to us. Further work will be done! And the Friday night demo in the Lowther room at RMAF will be quite revealing.
As the title says, I've done it. Maybe the first pair?
I was hoping to get a pair done by the master himself, but it didn't come together in time for RMAF (lack of drivers) - so - I did them myself.
The paint used was Testors "Acryl" flat black model paint. A thick and heavy paint that flows pretty well, but dries fast. Too thick for the Speedball calligraphy pens, so several sizes of artists paint brushes where used instead.
The outer ring was easy to do using the Lowther chart as a guide, after scaling it up a bit. The whizzer cone and the center of the main cone were much harder to do. The whizzer is darker than the main done, so the paint is almost invisible on the dark background - which makes it hard to see what you're doing.
The center rings are under the whizzer, so that makes it very difficult to get a guide in place. I did not do a very good job of this, nor did I get the rings as close to center as they should be. A better (flat) guide would have helped. Something to try for the next time.
The Micro Scale Gloss is not available here, so I was going to use regular acrylic gloss coat from my wife's art supplies. Bud advised against it. The Micro Scale Gloss is very hard stuff, made to protect scale models. Artist's clear coat is not. As Bud said "The small hemp cones I treated could easily have gone uncoated and as it is only got one 50% coating. More would have been a disaster." So my FR8s do not have the conformal coating. Thank you Bud, for the warning! (I wasn't crazy about acrylic on hemp, anyway).
Whizzer cone got treatment at the top and bottom. Dust cap got the 6 dash pattern and the PVA drop that dried to a point.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So does it work? Yes it does. But not quite how I thought it would.
There seems to be no change in tonal balance, no real overall change in character.
But: There is a big change in imaging. In my current set-up, the sound tended to stick to the speakers, it never really detached. Now it does. And that's a lovely improvement, for sure. There seems to be more depth to the image, width is about the same but just "better". The speakers disappear, like they do really good high end systems. Far off axis things fall apart, or that is to say, they sound like the untreated version.
Despite my rather clumsy first attempt, the EnABL does work its magic. I would not hesitate to do it again, and hope to find some Micro Scale gloss to try. You can bet the baffles will get a treatment too.
A big "Thank You" to Bud Purvine for providing this information to us. Further work will be done! And the Friday night demo in the Lowther room at RMAF will be quite revealing.
rying to do a stealth install of the pattern is a pain. Even with some experience, my black on black application was a mess (it still worked thou)
On the question of the pattern under the whizzer... there are drivers (FE167 for instance) where it is next to impossible to get under it... how far out can the pattern be put?
dave
On the question of the pattern under the whizzer... there are drivers (FE167 for instance) where it is next to impossible to get under it... how far out can the pattern be put?
dave
Panomaniac,,
When you come to RMAF, try to find a hobby store nearby , or perhaps do this search before you come, and purchase some Poly S flat colors and Micro Coat Gloss before returning home.
Dave, I now have three whizzer's under my belt... or rings, whatever. None of mine had the rings down by the voice coil joint. All three ended up at about 3/5 of the cone depth towards the center. All seemed to work just fine and it may be that they, being under that whizzer and so in a constrained compression area, will work just as Soongsc showed. Actually in the correct spot to break up the major resonance on the main cone. Certainly all three Lowthers lost their shoutyness, and though the A45 could not be said to have very much of this quality to loose, the DX 4 has quite a strong characteristic resonance.
For open cones, I never noticed that it made much difference exactly where the inner cone pattern was applied. My reason for blending the, cone/voice coil cover dome patterns, was for convenience, exactly because it did not seem to matter.
I do not remember ever placing the inner ring set out as far as Soonsgc has shown, deliberately. But, a bunch of the cone drivers I have treated over the years, had a lot bigger dome than was called for and so that inner pattern was out on the cone, at about a 3/5ths distance. Could also be that the larger dome's were specified on purpose, just to be placed at that resonance/storage peak area, and the pattern was then ideally placed for effective control.
Bud
When you come to RMAF, try to find a hobby store nearby , or perhaps do this search before you come, and purchase some Poly S flat colors and Micro Coat Gloss before returning home.
Dave, I now have three whizzer's under my belt... or rings, whatever. None of mine had the rings down by the voice coil joint. All three ended up at about 3/5 of the cone depth towards the center. All seemed to work just fine and it may be that they, being under that whizzer and so in a constrained compression area, will work just as Soongsc showed. Actually in the correct spot to break up the major resonance on the main cone. Certainly all three Lowthers lost their shoutyness, and though the A45 could not be said to have very much of this quality to loose, the DX 4 has quite a strong characteristic resonance.
For open cones, I never noticed that it made much difference exactly where the inner cone pattern was applied. My reason for blending the, cone/voice coil cover dome patterns, was for convenience, exactly because it did not seem to matter.
I do not remember ever placing the inner ring set out as far as Soonsgc has shown, deliberately. But, a bunch of the cone drivers I have treated over the years, had a lot bigger dome than was called for and so that inner pattern was out on the cone, at about a 3/5ths distance. Could also be that the larger dome's were specified on purpose, just to be placed at that resonance/storage peak area, and the pattern was then ideally placed for effective control.
Bud
Gary P said:
It would be nice to see the data. Is it possible to look at the first 0.4ms of the CSD with good resolution?
Hi soongsc,
The data I was referring to were the plots posted earlier in the thread. I have not done any measurements myself. I want to try the process on my Beta 8's that are used in my main OB system and measure the results. I have not played much with the CSD measurement capabilities of the ARTA software I have so I'm not sure if ARTA can do what you want.
Gary
The data I was referring to were the plots posted earlier in the thread. I have not done any measurements myself. I want to try the process on my Beta 8's that are used in my main OB system and measure the results. I have not played much with the CSD measurement capabilities of the ARTA software I have so I'm not sure if ARTA can do what you want.
Gary
Hi guys,
Bud: Thanks for all the help. Good to know that the EnABL does not have to be exact - cause mine ain't! I would imagine that a better pattern would have more effect. I will try to find some of the right paint and gloss in Denver.
Dave: The matte black on the hemp cones shows up very well, subtle, but you can't miss it. On the whizzer, tho... It's very hard to see. But that's OK, I didn't have the courage to try the yellow dots like you do. 😱
Gary P: Will you be at RMAF? Hanging out with Lynn? If so, I'd love to say hello!
Soongsc and Gary:
What about Spectrograms (aka Spectrograph). It's a long established method of looking a speech, bird song, music and musical instruments. Has it been used for loudspeaker analysis? I haven't seen it, but haven't searched much.
Spectrograms can tell you a lot. A good speech therapist can actually read words from a graph, that's impressive. Bird song is analyzed this way, with the "accent" of various bird populations clearly shown. Music is often analyzed in this manner.
Just thinking that the spectrogram might show things that are not obvious in other types of graphs. It might show what's going on with the EnABL. It does have the limitation of being a single point (in space) measurement. But complex signals are easy to analyze with a little practice. And steady state signals are not needed, or even desirable.
Bud: Thanks for all the help. Good to know that the EnABL does not have to be exact - cause mine ain't! I would imagine that a better pattern would have more effect. I will try to find some of the right paint and gloss in Denver.
Dave: The matte black on the hemp cones shows up very well, subtle, but you can't miss it. On the whizzer, tho... It's very hard to see. But that's OK, I didn't have the courage to try the yellow dots like you do. 😱
Gary P: Will you be at RMAF? Hanging out with Lynn? If so, I'd love to say hello!
Soongsc and Gary:
What about Spectrograms (aka Spectrograph). It's a long established method of looking a speech, bird song, music and musical instruments. Has it been used for loudspeaker analysis? I haven't seen it, but haven't searched much.
Spectrograms can tell you a lot. A good speech therapist can actually read words from a graph, that's impressive. Bird song is analyzed this way, with the "accent" of various bird populations clearly shown. Music is often analyzed in this manner.
Just thinking that the spectrogram might show things that are not obvious in other types of graphs. It might show what's going on with the EnABL. It does have the limitation of being a single point (in space) measurement. But complex signals are easy to analyze with a little practice. And steady state signals are not needed, or even desirable.
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