Hi all,
Here is a OT post I made over on the Walsh thread too. I post it here because it is close to my audio heart and I want others to know about it. Here is a contact link to the man behind this post.
http://www.recone.com/c8pssclassifieds/templates/template1.asp?action=addetail&adid=37
Dale Harder is the real deal. He has been repairing, rebuilding and making brand new Walsh Ohm F and A drivers for 30 years! I have spent a couple of hours with him on the phone. This is the man you want to have rebuild your Ohm F's. He no longer calls them Ohm anything, at least for his new production, out of deference to Ohm, who he has worked with in the past.
He has forwarded to me some high resolution pictures and I have put them up on my google photo site, along with the rest of the pics of the EnABL process, as applied to alleged pistonic direct radiators.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvin...alAllMetalOhmFS
The workmanship looks to be really excellent. Makes me very very jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And, yes, of course I am discussing the EnABL process with him. After all, it was a pair of Ohm F's that launched that funny pattern. EnABL was originally intended as a proper termination for Walsh drivers. That it also properly terminates pseudo pistonic drivers, just shows that Lincoln Walsh knew exactly what he was talking about.
Bud
Here is a OT post I made over on the Walsh thread too. I post it here because it is close to my audio heart and I want others to know about it. Here is a contact link to the man behind this post.
http://www.recone.com/c8pssclassifieds/templates/template1.asp?action=addetail&adid=37
Dale Harder is the real deal. He has been repairing, rebuilding and making brand new Walsh Ohm F and A drivers for 30 years! I have spent a couple of hours with him on the phone. This is the man you want to have rebuild your Ohm F's. He no longer calls them Ohm anything, at least for his new production, out of deference to Ohm, who he has worked with in the past.
He has forwarded to me some high resolution pictures and I have put them up on my google photo site, along with the rest of the pics of the EnABL process, as applied to alleged pistonic direct radiators.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvin...alAllMetalOhmFS
The workmanship looks to be really excellent. Makes me very very jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And, yes, of course I am discussing the EnABL process with him. After all, it was a pair of Ohm F's that launched that funny pattern. EnABL was originally intended as a proper termination for Walsh drivers. That it also properly terminates pseudo pistonic drivers, just shows that Lincoln Walsh knew exactly what he was talking about.
Bud
Just a note to let you all know about a three part EnABL tutorial, now completed, over on the Hawthorne Audio forum. Pages 8 and 9.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21618#21618
Most of the information can be found in this monster, but I took pity on the newbies over there..... and on the rest of you too.
Bud
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21618#21618
Most of the information can be found in this monster, but I took pity on the newbies over there..... and on the rest of you too.
Bud
Duo said:It works for me
yes , but like this :
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/NewWalshDriversFromDaleHarderPlusSomeOriginalAllMetalOhmFS
Hi All FR8c
I have finished the Hemp Acoustics FR8's. What I learned about whizzers and their control, at least the one on these speakers, also lifts the caution on using Soongsc's extra cone and whizzer mid rings.
After careful sleuthing around with various straws stuck in ears, and laughter, from those not involved in this important work, the culprit is the whizzer shelf. I suspect that the mid whizzer pattern (okay, mad whizzer pattern) aggravated an inherent problem. The result was a high frequency "crinkle" that on sharply defined and rudely recorded "modern" music provided an uncomfortable, sharp, shriek.
The small part in question had gloss coat on both sides, pattern blocks on the front and used to be stiffly attached to the whizzer body. I unbent the crease at joint of whizzer and shelf, first by bending the ledge up about 20 degrees and then over bent it by depressing it that much. This took care of the shriek, but also caused some time alignment issues with mids and somewhat fuzzy high frequencies.
I reapplied gloss to the back side only of the now easily moved ledge, with a double tamped brush, flattened it out and let it set for 24 hours. Then I went looking for rubber cement, only to find that babies had been found eating the stuff, or something equally icky, so it had been banned, and none was to be had..... What I did discover was an acrylic glue, that once dry, is slightly tacky and slightly thick and very nice at damping high frequencies, very evenly.
Stuff is sold in craft supply stores in the US as Zig Memory System 2 Way Glue. It is mfg. in Japan by the KURETAKE Co. Ltd. It is distributed in the US by EK Success in Clifton NJ. It's major claim to crafter fame is that it starts out blue and turns clear after it is dry.
A double round wetting, with the easy to use built in foam applicator, nailed all of the naughty bits, without ruining the whizzer output. After a two hour dry and tack period, I applied a thin coating of Gloss and eight hours later, it is just about perfect. I will be certain of it by tomorrow, but there will have to be some major chemical changes to mess up what has come through.
I realize this is a VERY fiddly process, that sounds like you could really screw it up, and it is true, you could. But you would have to be deliberately aiming at doing so. Even if the high frequencies are still a bit hot by tomorrow, I am quite sure another application of each material will take care of the problem.
Of course, you could just not apply those middle rings, leave off the backside of the whizzer light coating of gloss and just barely touch brush to the underside and top side of the ledge, with gloss coat.
What you would be missing is a quite delightful lightness of air, applied to all instruments uniformly, and a staggering amount of colorful detail and tiny musical sounds that are worth listening to.
I strongly suspect that this material will find it's way to the inner edge, down to the pattern blocks, on whizzer cones, without a ledge, and gloss coated lightly after drying.
I suppose it must be called mass damping, of sorts, but the amount applied is really small, though it does engulf the surface it is applied to. Well, I can leave it to the experts to argue over, once EnABL is a common part of the audioscape and I have shuffled off to someheimers, or some equally appalling old persons malaise.
Bud
I have finished the Hemp Acoustics FR8's. What I learned about whizzers and their control, at least the one on these speakers, also lifts the caution on using Soongsc's extra cone and whizzer mid rings.
After careful sleuthing around with various straws stuck in ears, and laughter, from those not involved in this important work, the culprit is the whizzer shelf. I suspect that the mid whizzer pattern (okay, mad whizzer pattern) aggravated an inherent problem. The result was a high frequency "crinkle" that on sharply defined and rudely recorded "modern" music provided an uncomfortable, sharp, shriek.
The small part in question had gloss coat on both sides, pattern blocks on the front and used to be stiffly attached to the whizzer body. I unbent the crease at joint of whizzer and shelf, first by bending the ledge up about 20 degrees and then over bent it by depressing it that much. This took care of the shriek, but also caused some time alignment issues with mids and somewhat fuzzy high frequencies.
I reapplied gloss to the back side only of the now easily moved ledge, with a double tamped brush, flattened it out and let it set for 24 hours. Then I went looking for rubber cement, only to find that babies had been found eating the stuff, or something equally icky, so it had been banned, and none was to be had..... What I did discover was an acrylic glue, that once dry, is slightly tacky and slightly thick and very nice at damping high frequencies, very evenly.
Stuff is sold in craft supply stores in the US as Zig Memory System 2 Way Glue. It is mfg. in Japan by the KURETAKE Co. Ltd. It is distributed in the US by EK Success in Clifton NJ. It's major claim to crafter fame is that it starts out blue and turns clear after it is dry.
A double round wetting, with the easy to use built in foam applicator, nailed all of the naughty bits, without ruining the whizzer output. After a two hour dry and tack period, I applied a thin coating of Gloss and eight hours later, it is just about perfect. I will be certain of it by tomorrow, but there will have to be some major chemical changes to mess up what has come through.
I realize this is a VERY fiddly process, that sounds like you could really screw it up, and it is true, you could. But you would have to be deliberately aiming at doing so. Even if the high frequencies are still a bit hot by tomorrow, I am quite sure another application of each material will take care of the problem.
Of course, you could just not apply those middle rings, leave off the backside of the whizzer light coating of gloss and just barely touch brush to the underside and top side of the ledge, with gloss coat.
What you would be missing is a quite delightful lightness of air, applied to all instruments uniformly, and a staggering amount of colorful detail and tiny musical sounds that are worth listening to.
I strongly suspect that this material will find it's way to the inner edge, down to the pattern blocks, on whizzer cones, without a ledge, and gloss coated lightly after drying.
I suppose it must be called mass damping, of sorts, but the amount applied is really small, though it does engulf the surface it is applied to. Well, I can leave it to the experts to argue over, once EnABL is a common part of the audioscape and I have shuffled off to someheimers, or some equally appalling old persons malaise.
Bud
UK supplier
Hi All
For those in the UK. model junction online appear to stock the microscale gloss and the poly s clear flat acrylic paint in one store.
Poly S clear flat paint (15ml)...£1.75
Microscale gloss (30ml)..........£1.50
Delivery is............................£3.95
---------------------------------------------
Total...................................£7.20
The company also has 5 packs of hss micro drills which may offset the cost of delivery for me.
However I am going to try some of the local model maker stores in Glasgow before I place an order.
thought this may be of use to the UK subscribers to the thread.
Bud if you get a second could you double check just to make sure this is the right materials?
Regards
JB
Hi All
For those in the UK. model junction online appear to stock the microscale gloss and the poly s clear flat acrylic paint in one store.
Poly S clear flat paint (15ml)...£1.75
Microscale gloss (30ml)..........£1.50
Delivery is............................£3.95
---------------------------------------------
Total...................................£7.20
The company also has 5 packs of hss micro drills which may offset the cost of delivery for me.
However I am going to try some of the local model maker stores in Glasgow before I place an order.
thought this may be of use to the UK subscribers to the thread.
Bud if you get a second could you double check just to make sure this is the right materials?
Regards
JB
Hemp FR8
Bud: nice work as always on the FR8's - exactly how do you get at the back side of the cone, and how many hours of physiotherapy to your wrists and shoulders afterwards?
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/HempFR8
Bud: nice work as always on the FR8's - exactly how do you get at the back side of the cone, and how many hours of physiotherapy to your wrists and shoulders afterwards?
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/HempFR8
JB,
Those are the correct materials, and the various flat colors are also correct. Thanks for posting this information.
Chrisb,
It really is all the same. Once you have made up your mind that you can do it, the process turns out to be little different than on the front, under the whizzer skirt. The inner rings are placed with the nib and quill held radially to the voice coil. So, your nib width choice, becomes that pen nib, whose blade width is closest to the length of an individual block.
You fight the back side conic section pattern into place, after cutting it radially of course. Then go for it. The pen must be used upside down and just a touch to the surface is all that is needed. If your parallax is as spotty as mine, this touching in the right spot will be the only exciting part..... did I just get off topic again?.... and so the pattern is pretty necessary, to control the circumferential placement of blocks and also the diameter of the rings.
Bud
Those are the correct materials, and the various flat colors are also correct. Thanks for posting this information.
Chrisb,
It really is all the same. Once you have made up your mind that you can do it, the process turns out to be little different than on the front, under the whizzer skirt. The inner rings are placed with the nib and quill held radially to the voice coil. So, your nib width choice, becomes that pen nib, whose blade width is closest to the length of an individual block.
You fight the back side conic section pattern into place, after cutting it radially of course. Then go for it. The pen must be used upside down and just a touch to the surface is all that is needed. If your parallax is as spotty as mine, this touching in the right spot will be the only exciting part..... did I just get off topic again?.... and so the pattern is pretty necessary, to control the circumferential placement of blocks and also the diameter of the rings.
Bud
Re: UK supplier
Hi JB,
I'm also in Glasgow - and have been trying to get the italic pen nibs without success. Have you a source for these?
I did find ...
http://www.scribblers.co.uk/acatalog/speedball_nibs.html
but they don't seem to have the angled ones.
Alan H
justblair said:
Hi JB,
I'm also in Glasgow - and have been trying to get the italic pen nibs without success. Have you a source for these?
I did find ...
http://www.scribblers.co.uk/acatalog/speedball_nibs.html
but they don't seem to have the angled ones.
Alan H
Re: Re: UK supplier
There is a new store opened at the Easterhouse Fort called Hobby craft (they have stores eleswhere in the UK, and a terrible website). They sell pin nibs and holders in packs for less than £10. They are not the same brand that Bud refers to, however I think they have something suitable. I was in for christmas pressies and I spotted them. However I was working from a rather poor memory of a rather lengthy thread.
I also bought them out of their own brand compartment boxes, 18 compartment cases are 99p - I've never been so organised!
I have not checked Millers craft supplies in Glassford street, but from being in before I would be suprised if they dont have them.
ps if you are in Glasgow, perhaps we could organise a listening night?
Alan Hope said:
There is a new store opened at the Easterhouse Fort called Hobby craft (they have stores eleswhere in the UK, and a terrible website). They sell pin nibs and holders in packs for less than £10. They are not the same brand that Bud refers to, however I think they have something suitable. I was in for christmas pressies and I spotted them. However I was working from a rather poor memory of a rather lengthy thread.
I also bought them out of their own brand compartment boxes, 18 compartment cases are 99p - I've never been so organised!
I have not checked Millers craft supplies in Glassford street, but from being in before I would be suprised if they dont have them.
ps if you are in Glasgow, perhaps we could organise a listening night?
Here are two suppliers of A series pen nibs. They do ship internationally. Most prepackaged SpeedBall nibs have at best, one A series tip. You can use the rest, but only for the most straight forward pattern applications.
http://www.dickblick.com/zz209/09/ Scroll down a page to the order sheet where you can purchase singles or many of a given size. Also they are out of stock until after christmas.
http://www.allartsupplies.com/item.php?articleId=1534 Probably the most promising, as you can get a boxed set, 1 of each pen, for a reasonable price. No comments made on availability.
Bud
http://www.dickblick.com/zz209/09/ Scroll down a page to the order sheet where you can purchase singles or many of a given size. Also they are out of stock until after christmas.
http://www.allartsupplies.com/item.php?articleId=1534 Probably the most promising, as you can get a boxed set, 1 of each pen, for a reasonable price. No comments made on availability.
Bud
Re: Re: Re: UK supplier
Millers don't have them. I've still to try the Art-School shop - they're the sort who would order them in for us. I'll keep you posted.
Might be on for a listening night ... some way off yet though, I've got Sachikos to build first.
Thanks Bud. Might come to that if I can't easily source them locally.
justblair said:
Millers don't have them. I've still to try the Art-School shop - they're the sort who would order them in for us. I'll keep you posted.
Might be on for a listening night ... some way off yet though, I've got Sachikos to build first.
BudP said:
Thanks Bud. Might come to that if I can't easily source them locally.
pen and brush technique
Posted this on the Hawthorne Audio thread...so including it here also.
These two tips may help those of us who are practicing to be great EnABLers. Hopefully I've illustrated the concepts in a way that is translatable to use in EnABL techniques.
Tip 1) I know some of the blocks are very short in length. This may help with the longer ones. Learned this in a mechanical drawing class about 35 years ago.
Tip 2) It can be difficult to paint with consistent and even brush strokes. This seems to be important since Bud's description of his gloss coating technique includes many single strokes of the brush. I learned how to paint houses from a master when I was in college doing a summer job--Jay painted stuff all over Vietnam while he was in the Army. He taught me how to evenly apply paint and varnish with straight and consistent brush strokes. There are two rules:
There may be a few bonuses that come along with using these tips!
Posted this on the Hawthorne Audio thread...so including it here also.
These two tips may help those of us who are practicing to be great EnABLers. Hopefully I've illustrated the concepts in a way that is translatable to use in EnABL techniques.
Tip 1) I know some of the blocks are very short in length. This may help with the longer ones. Learned this in a mechanical drawing class about 35 years ago.
- To help yourself draw a straight line don't watch the tip of the pen as you draw. Focus on the point that is the end of the line as the pen moves from the starting point. You can practice on paper by drawing a line to connect two points. Start out doing this with the two points about an inch apart and increase the length as you get better. Place your pen on the starting point, shift your focus to the ending point, and move the pen from the starting point to the ending point while maintaining your focus on the ending point.
Tip 2) It can be difficult to paint with consistent and even brush strokes. This seems to be important since Bud's description of his gloss coating technique includes many single strokes of the brush. I learned how to paint houses from a master when I was in college doing a summer job--Jay painted stuff all over Vietnam while he was in the Army. He taught me how to evenly apply paint and varnish with straight and consistent brush strokes. There are two rules:
- Rule 1 - Move the brush away from your heart--never toward it--no matter where the stroke begins in relation to your heart. (basically you just have to remember to always be extending/straightening your arm during the stroke.) This applies for up, down, and sideways brush strokes. Overhead painting is never recommended, but if you must, follow a modified rule and stroke away from your face.
Rule 2 - Before you begin the brush stroke, inhale, and then exhale slowly when your're making contact with the surface and while making the stroke. The breath thing may also help with tip #1.
There may be a few bonuses that come along with using these tips!
- Deep breathing helps you stay calm when you're painting the gloss coat on the cone of a brand-new high-cost driver.
Drawing straight lines is essential when sketching a new enclosure design on a cocktail napkin.
Good brush technique helps make the finish on an enclosure or baffle look better.
Thanks Mike.
The scale we are working on is different and the awkward question of "what to do with the elbow" actually is predominate. However your comments about brush direction and breathing are welcome.
To handle a brush full of liquid and apply it to a porous surface, with any hope of evenness, certainly requires both a patterned regimen of body movements and a calm and alert mind.
Getting anxious and eager to finish is just going to cause you to loose focus and will allow Murphy a perfect opening. So practice what Mike is presenting, off of a cone you care about, until you are serene in your understanding of how Sable hair brushes, liquids and porous surfaces interact, while you brush from your heart.
Bud
The scale we are working on is different and the awkward question of "what to do with the elbow" actually is predominate. However your comments about brush direction and breathing are welcome.
To handle a brush full of liquid and apply it to a porous surface, with any hope of evenness, certainly requires both a patterned regimen of body movements and a calm and alert mind.
Getting anxious and eager to finish is just going to cause you to loose focus and will allow Murphy a perfect opening. So practice what Mike is presenting, off of a cone you care about, until you are serene in your understanding of how Sable hair brushes, liquids and porous surfaces interact, while you brush from your heart.
Bud
I'm not Bud
far from it...I asked the forum for expressions of interest for such a kit. The response was "limited". Send me a pm to discuss.
glue & pva are the same, available locally
I would think a brush would be also
The patterns can be printed using a routine found here:
http://pharm.kuleuven.be/pharbio/gpaper.htm
A kit might consist of
A2-A5 tips (4) and holder
a bottle of Microscale Gloss coat
Poly Scale Flat (it comes in many colors)
anything else?
far from it...I asked the forum for expressions of interest for such a kit. The response was "limited". Send me a pm to discuss.
glue & pva are the same, available locally
I would think a brush would be also
The patterns can be printed using a routine found here:
http://pharm.kuleuven.be/pharbio/gpaper.htm
A kit might consist of
A2-A5 tips (4) and holder
a bottle of Microscale Gloss coat
Poly Scale Flat (it comes in many colors)
anything else?
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