There is some confusion here. Cat5 is ethernet cable. 10mbs. Cat5e is 100mbs higher end wire with better sheilding (all I run here).
Now 75 ohm cable is commenly used for cable tv, and Cb radios. Or airial antennas that use a ballast stepdown from 300 etc. Diff grades of it. My satalite uses R-6 for example. very well shielded. Biggest diff between it and R5 though is the gain loss over distance. Some really highend stuff can do 100' and have the loss of a cheap 10' cable. No kidding. More copper to the wire or more strands (better) the less loss. This kinda 75 ohm cable usually is around $1-2 per foot. Think of it like a water pipe being larger. More water goes through I.E. higher flow rate-less pressure. Pressure to electricity is resistance to flow which with signal like these (antenna's-video) drops gain. small pipe bad. Antoehr note unrelated to the water compairison better grade copper (more pure or special alloys) can also have a major effect.
"I tried using cat5 cable for s-video and I got crappy result. "
Course. Its not carrying the signal right. S-video cable cant be LONG. Its digital. That also means needs right wire material aswell. The problem with digital vs analouge RF cable. (ya know antenna or cable tv, its the threaded end stuff). Is that Rf will just get fuzzy-pixelated etc. resulting in bad reception. Digital is all or nothing. Either the signal gets there intact or its just dropped. DVI is the same..
"I already have vga female and male socket. Its going to be a chalenge to solder cat5 cable to this vga socket huh?"
That will work. No problem wiring a vga plug its super easy. I rewired my vga mon when the cord went bad. Just 15 pins and not all of them are used. First find the wiring scheme-take notes on it. Then tin the pins used first. Then tin the ends of wires. Heat the tinned pin on db15 then quickly insert wire, remove heat let cool second. USE a 15watt iron with fine tip that is in good shape! Move on to next one then. Follow that and you have NO bare wires exposed. Just all nice and tighty connections. Ive made my own psx adaptors by the dozens. Thats a Printer port interface. Its not hard. Just jump into it, take notes of config-and double check EVERYTHING. You'll be fine.
P.S. not all video cable is same. Not all is 75ohm RF. Certainly not S-video as it will weaken the signal TONS-to point of not being useable.
Now 75 ohm cable is commenly used for cable tv, and Cb radios. Or airial antennas that use a ballast stepdown from 300 etc. Diff grades of it. My satalite uses R-6 for example. very well shielded. Biggest diff between it and R5 though is the gain loss over distance. Some really highend stuff can do 100' and have the loss of a cheap 10' cable. No kidding. More copper to the wire or more strands (better) the less loss. This kinda 75 ohm cable usually is around $1-2 per foot. Think of it like a water pipe being larger. More water goes through I.E. higher flow rate-less pressure. Pressure to electricity is resistance to flow which with signal like these (antenna's-video) drops gain. small pipe bad. Antoehr note unrelated to the water compairison better grade copper (more pure or special alloys) can also have a major effect.
"I tried using cat5 cable for s-video and I got crappy result. "
Course. Its not carrying the signal right. S-video cable cant be LONG. Its digital. That also means needs right wire material aswell. The problem with digital vs analouge RF cable. (ya know antenna or cable tv, its the threaded end stuff). Is that Rf will just get fuzzy-pixelated etc. resulting in bad reception. Digital is all or nothing. Either the signal gets there intact or its just dropped. DVI is the same..
"I already have vga female and male socket. Its going to be a chalenge to solder cat5 cable to this vga socket huh?"
That will work. No problem wiring a vga plug its super easy. I rewired my vga mon when the cord went bad. Just 15 pins and not all of them are used. First find the wiring scheme-take notes on it. Then tin the pins used first. Then tin the ends of wires. Heat the tinned pin on db15 then quickly insert wire, remove heat let cool second. USE a 15watt iron with fine tip that is in good shape! Move on to next one then. Follow that and you have NO bare wires exposed. Just all nice and tighty connections. Ive made my own psx adaptors by the dozens. Thats a Printer port interface. Its not hard. Just jump into it, take notes of config-and double check EVERYTHING. You'll be fine.
P.S. not all video cable is same. Not all is 75ohm RF. Certainly not S-video as it will weaken the signal TONS-to point of not being useable.
Altec,
Thats a very good information. You know, I had this experience with my PJ which is very hard to believe that is why I am very interested in cable.
Composite input of my pj is much better than my s-video input. I notice that whenever I tried to use s-video, screen door effect is very evident. I cannot maximize the use of sharpness adjustment in the lcd controller. But with composite input, the image is sharper bec i can make use of sharpness control set to maximum without any ghosting. The screen door is only noticeable when looking at the screen from about 5 feet. But the screen door effect is smoother.This sharpness adjustment I notice helps in brightening up even the image background giving more detail.
Even with VGA input, the image using composite input is more appealing to me. The sharpness control in dindvd platinum software even if you set to maximum, is inferior than composite input i terms of brightness and sharpness. Color is deeper in vga though.
Vga is filmlike or looks flat but image using composite looks vibrant. You will notice that in the picture i am posting.
RG-6 cable is doing wonder to this composite input. I tried different brand and luckily found that fits my need.
I am still trying to prove that composite input is crappy so meaning my pj will look much better if i can find a solution to my problem.
I had tried replacing s-video cable with RG-6 cable and still I screen door effect is very evident. The white looks good though.
I only tried power dvd as other dvd software. Any other recommendation?
Any recommendation on s-video cable brand or cable material?
Thanks a lot.
Hertz
Thats a very good information. You know, I had this experience with my PJ which is very hard to believe that is why I am very interested in cable.
Composite input of my pj is much better than my s-video input. I notice that whenever I tried to use s-video, screen door effect is very evident. I cannot maximize the use of sharpness adjustment in the lcd controller. But with composite input, the image is sharper bec i can make use of sharpness control set to maximum without any ghosting. The screen door is only noticeable when looking at the screen from about 5 feet. But the screen door effect is smoother.This sharpness adjustment I notice helps in brightening up even the image background giving more detail.
Even with VGA input, the image using composite input is more appealing to me. The sharpness control in dindvd platinum software even if you set to maximum, is inferior than composite input i terms of brightness and sharpness. Color is deeper in vga though.
Vga is filmlike or looks flat but image using composite looks vibrant. You will notice that in the picture i am posting.
RG-6 cable is doing wonder to this composite input. I tried different brand and luckily found that fits my need.
I am still trying to prove that composite input is crappy so meaning my pj will look much better if i can find a solution to my problem.
I had tried replacing s-video cable with RG-6 cable and still I screen door effect is very evident. The white looks good though.
I only tried power dvd as other dvd software. Any other recommendation?
Any recommendation on s-video cable brand or cable material?
Thanks a lot.
Hertz
"Any recommendation on s-video cable brand or cable material?"
http://www.dvdcity.com/monster/monster-s-video.html
Read all that on the page and youll be ready to buy some pro cable. And its all true I'll tell ya from first hand experience.
Monster cable is what I recomend if you want best pic possible without over spending. I use the stuff on my Home theatre and pc connections. Great co with a solid and reasonably priced product.
"S-video components can deliver pictures with incredible resolution, when S-video connections are used. Composite video connections deliver images full of "dot crawl" and color inaccuracies that use of S-video connections prevents. "
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/S_Video.html
"Short for Super-Video, a technology for transmitting video signals over a cable by dividing the video information into two separate signals: one for color (chrominance), and the other for brightness (luminance). When sent to a television, this produces sharper images than composite video , where the video information is transmitted as a single signal over one wire. This is because televisions are designed to display separate Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C) signals. (The terms Y/C video and S-Video are the same.)"
"Most midrange and premium video equipment provide the additional option of using Y/C video connections. The Y/C (or S-video) cable is terminated at each end with a four-pin DIN connector. Although it may appear to be a single cable, internally it has two 75 ohm coax or twisted pair cables to carry the separate Y and C signals."
See its twisted pair 75ohm. Which means two put together wont work right. Its like cat5E net cable must be exactly = length due to sperated signals. Twisted pair is = lenght and = resistance the hole way through. Pluss twisted to reduce interference. Pretty hard to make a good one at home. Most attempts will end in pretty poor results unless really short cable.
Composite signal can run on s-video and then is converted at end eliminating all of gains though at same time. Only thing composite offers over RF is it seperates sound from the pic info. S-video takes it to next level! Yes they are both analouge but diff types of it. Yur problem is this.....And I have some free cheap s-video here and they are right. It looks crap in compairison.
"Unfortunately, poorly designed "free in the box" S-video cables often use poor construction materials, Wispy wire and inferior shielding which can result in signal degradation that can ruin your picture. Performance suffers even more when mediocre S-video cables are run longer than just a few feet."
this is cause Chroma(color) and luminance(brightness) signals are seperated. They need to be = at the output end. Meaning same clean signal, same strength at end or problems arise like horrible picture.
"Hey, need clarification aAltec. S-video is analog right?"
Yea, Im sorry it was a brain fart. ROFLMAO Been a bad day-I threw my lower back out yesterday and my mind isnt withit! LOL. Sorry for the confusion I caused.
Heres lots of video signal info though targeted at NTSC format you should find it helpfull as far as cable properties are concerned.
http://www.cybertheater.com/Tech_Archive/YC_Comp_Format/yc_comp_format.html
hope that helped ya some.
http://www.dvdcity.com/monster/monster-s-video.html
Read all that on the page and youll be ready to buy some pro cable. And its all true I'll tell ya from first hand experience.
Monster cable is what I recomend if you want best pic possible without over spending. I use the stuff on my Home theatre and pc connections. Great co with a solid and reasonably priced product.
"S-video components can deliver pictures with incredible resolution, when S-video connections are used. Composite video connections deliver images full of "dot crawl" and color inaccuracies that use of S-video connections prevents. "
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/S_Video.html
"Short for Super-Video, a technology for transmitting video signals over a cable by dividing the video information into two separate signals: one for color (chrominance), and the other for brightness (luminance). When sent to a television, this produces sharper images than composite video , where the video information is transmitted as a single signal over one wire. This is because televisions are designed to display separate Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C) signals. (The terms Y/C video and S-Video are the same.)"
"Most midrange and premium video equipment provide the additional option of using Y/C video connections. The Y/C (or S-video) cable is terminated at each end with a four-pin DIN connector. Although it may appear to be a single cable, internally it has two 75 ohm coax or twisted pair cables to carry the separate Y and C signals."
See its twisted pair 75ohm. Which means two put together wont work right. Its like cat5E net cable must be exactly = length due to sperated signals. Twisted pair is = lenght and = resistance the hole way through. Pluss twisted to reduce interference. Pretty hard to make a good one at home. Most attempts will end in pretty poor results unless really short cable.
Composite signal can run on s-video and then is converted at end eliminating all of gains though at same time. Only thing composite offers over RF is it seperates sound from the pic info. S-video takes it to next level! Yes they are both analouge but diff types of it. Yur problem is this.....And I have some free cheap s-video here and they are right. It looks crap in compairison.
"Unfortunately, poorly designed "free in the box" S-video cables often use poor construction materials, Wispy wire and inferior shielding which can result in signal degradation that can ruin your picture. Performance suffers even more when mediocre S-video cables are run longer than just a few feet."
this is cause Chroma(color) and luminance(brightness) signals are seperated. They need to be = at the output end. Meaning same clean signal, same strength at end or problems arise like horrible picture.
"Hey, need clarification aAltec. S-video is analog right?"
Yea, Im sorry it was a brain fart. ROFLMAO Been a bad day-I threw my lower back out yesterday and my mind isnt withit! LOL. Sorry for the confusion I caused.
Heres lots of video signal info though targeted at NTSC format you should find it helpfull as far as cable properties are concerned.
http://www.cybertheater.com/Tech_Archive/YC_Comp_Format/yc_comp_format.html
hope that helped ya some.
Oh by the way note this part
"The practical differences in quality between component video and Y/C video is noticeable but not dramatic. You should never use composite video with a DVD player if it can be avoided. Composite video will generate several unnecessary format conversions that will unavoidably create Y/C separation artifacts that are dramatic. (Y/C separation artifacts will be explained later.)"
"The practical differences in quality between component video and Y/C video is noticeable but not dramatic. You should never use composite video with a DVD player if it can be avoided. Composite video will generate several unnecessary format conversions that will unavoidably create Y/C separation artifacts that are dramatic. (Y/C separation artifacts will be explained later.)"
Thanks for the links. I earned a lot of valuable information in those sites.
When using a composite input, my lcd comb filter filter will separate a single signal to chroma and luma (y/c).
When using s-video, comb filter is not used. S-video is better because of lesser electronics involve to produce a picture.
i can hypothesize for the moment that my lcd comb filter is doing an excellent job that is why composite is better than my s-video input. but I have to buy that monster s-video cable first to finally prove it. Luckily that cable is locally available.
When using a composite input, my lcd comb filter filter will separate a single signal to chroma and luma (y/c).
When using s-video, comb filter is not used. S-video is better because of lesser electronics involve to produce a picture.
i can hypothesize for the moment that my lcd comb filter is doing an excellent job that is why composite is better than my s-video input. but I have to buy that monster s-video cable first to finally prove it. Luckily that cable is locally available.
HIghly recommended dvd " Kenny Logins- Outside from the Redwoods".
Should'nt we have a survey of better made or crappy dvd so that we have an idea how our pj will perform knowing the quality of dvd disc?
I mean a reference dvd for diypj! Its going to help a lot of newbies knowing whether how their pj will perform under good and bad disc.
Should'nt we have a survey of better made or crappy dvd so that we have an idea how our pj will perform knowing the quality of dvd disc?
I mean a reference dvd for diypj! Its going to help a lot of newbies knowing whether how their pj will perform under good and bad disc.
Attachments
Hey Hertz,
Sometimes the default setting for DVD software are designed for CRT monitors or for other reasons may not be at ideal setting for your LCD. Also the LCD itself should have some controls to adjust for color.
If you really want to make a high end VGA cable heres how to do it for a reasonably low price.
First the twisted pairs in CAT5 are to reduce inductance in the wire for long runs. you can accomplish the same thing by separating the wires by some distance. I don't know how many wires are actually used in the VGA connector. Probably not more than 5. So you can get 5 runs of shielded coaxial cable of 75 ohm variety and tape them to a foam core or old garden hose and space them apart as far as possible. Then solder all of the shield together at the connectors. Use silver bearing electronic solder because regular solder is not a very good conductor.
The only differnce between cat5 and cat5e is that cat5e is certified for running at higher frequncy needed for 100 mbs and the dialectric on the wire is higher quality which allows for higher frequency signaling.
Hezz
Sometimes the default setting for DVD software are designed for CRT monitors or for other reasons may not be at ideal setting for your LCD. Also the LCD itself should have some controls to adjust for color.
If you really want to make a high end VGA cable heres how to do it for a reasonably low price.
First the twisted pairs in CAT5 are to reduce inductance in the wire for long runs. you can accomplish the same thing by separating the wires by some distance. I don't know how many wires are actually used in the VGA connector. Probably not more than 5. So you can get 5 runs of shielded coaxial cable of 75 ohm variety and tape them to a foam core or old garden hose and space them apart as far as possible. Then solder all of the shield together at the connectors. Use silver bearing electronic solder because regular solder is not a very good conductor.
The only differnce between cat5 and cat5e is that cat5e is certified for running at higher frequncy needed for 100 mbs and the dialectric on the wire is higher quality which allows for higher frequency signaling.
Hezz
Hezz,
Thanks for that suggestion regarding using 5 runs of 75 ohm cable as vga cable. It think it is a good idea and I will try it also.
By the way, I can't believe myself that over tightnening of my RG-6 cable clamp support will reduce the image brightness, sharpness and color.
The following images is going to be a feast for your eyes.
Can't belive it myself. i believe I am approaching CRT like images or maybe I am just dreaming now.
Thanks for that suggestion regarding using 5 runs of 75 ohm cable as vga cable. It think it is a good idea and I will try it also.
By the way, I can't believe myself that over tightnening of my RG-6 cable clamp support will reduce the image brightness, sharpness and color.
The following images is going to be a feast for your eyes.
Can't belive it myself. i believe I am approaching CRT like images or maybe I am just dreaming now.
Attachments
Hey Happy Man!!!
I just purchased a Proxima Ovation 820 projection panel, and i was wondering if i can achieve good results with it??
For the light engine i will be using:
- 250w MH bulb (4500k)
- mogul base
- balast
- reflector of some kind
For the projection part i will be using:
- dual focus fresnel
- triplet lens
The enclosure will be made of 1/4 mdf.
Tell me what you think!!
good results/bad results.??
I just purchased a Proxima Ovation 820 projection panel, and i was wondering if i can achieve good results with it??
For the light engine i will be using:
- 250w MH bulb (4500k)
- mogul base
- balast
- reflector of some kind
For the projection part i will be using:
- dual focus fresnel
- triplet lens
The enclosure will be made of 1/4 mdf.
Tell me what you think!!
good results/bad results.??
TheNoodPoopler,
I had tried the 250w MH with mogul base before. I had tried a 150w MHN doulble ended lamp by Philips and is much brighter. One reason is the smaller reflector that u can use. We need a point source to project a brighter,sharper and colorful image. I tried my best to improve image for atleast 3 mos using the mogul base but I am unsuccessful. I had posted the result of that and u can see that the image is pathetic. I suggest you use double ended lamp 250w HQI-tsd or HQi-ts NDL.
You may not be able to find a big condenser lens to capture most of the light coming from a big bulb. The use of reflector and condenser lens is highly recommended.
With regards to color quality, The lcd and its controller board quality is a must. I read alot in this forum that proxima ovation is a good one but comparing the sample images with my pj, I believe there is a lot to be desired.
I spend almost $380 dollars including shipping for my lcd.
Your proxima ovation could be a good start. You can produce a nice image with that safely, if you do it right. Play around with the optics and reflector design. Later on i suggest you use a CMV1512 which is cheaper than the one I use and it has xga resolution and higher contrast ratio. You just have to live with a bigger box though.
You may read that I spend so much time about cables also. I can tell u that a good projector will look bad if the right cable is not use or you can improve a lot the image quality by using the right cable. Same is true with audio cables and interconnects. If you are audio-video enthusiast, If the sound is good, the image will appear to look better.
Don't hesitate to ask questions if you want to learn or unsure of something about, Most of the people here like me started out with little knowledge and understanding.
Hertz
I had tried the 250w MH with mogul base before. I had tried a 150w MHN doulble ended lamp by Philips and is much brighter. One reason is the smaller reflector that u can use. We need a point source to project a brighter,sharper and colorful image. I tried my best to improve image for atleast 3 mos using the mogul base but I am unsuccessful. I had posted the result of that and u can see that the image is pathetic. I suggest you use double ended lamp 250w HQI-tsd or HQi-ts NDL.
You may not be able to find a big condenser lens to capture most of the light coming from a big bulb. The use of reflector and condenser lens is highly recommended.
With regards to color quality, The lcd and its controller board quality is a must. I read alot in this forum that proxima ovation is a good one but comparing the sample images with my pj, I believe there is a lot to be desired.
I spend almost $380 dollars including shipping for my lcd.
Your proxima ovation could be a good start. You can produce a nice image with that safely, if you do it right. Play around with the optics and reflector design. Later on i suggest you use a CMV1512 which is cheaper than the one I use and it has xga resolution and higher contrast ratio. You just have to live with a bigger box though.
You may read that I spend so much time about cables also. I can tell u that a good projector will look bad if the right cable is not use or you can improve a lot the image quality by using the right cable. Same is true with audio cables and interconnects. If you are audio-video enthusiast, If the sound is good, the image will appear to look better.
Don't hesitate to ask questions if you want to learn or unsure of something about, Most of the people here like me started out with little knowledge and understanding.
Hertz
Attachments
Hey hertz, good morning. As if you even slept.
I'm working in Manila but i live in New Manila. Recently got a condo that i want to setup a projector. I am all dizzy from all this technical talk, but have a grasp on the theory of this projector thing.
I read somewhere that your lcd was bought abroad. Isn't it possible for me to make my own projector from parts bought here in the Philippines?
Thanks in advance.
I'm working in Manila but i live in New Manila. Recently got a condo that i want to setup a projector. I am all dizzy from all this technical talk, but have a grasp on the theory of this projector thing.
I read somewhere that your lcd was bought abroad. Isn't it possible for me to make my own projector from parts bought here in the Philippines?
Thanks in advance.
Havok,
Please email to me your budget and will tell u the quality of projector that you can make. If you want the best, use cmv1512. If you want a smaller cabinet like mine, use B084SN02. If you you want the smallest one, use the liliput with vga input. As you can see the smaller the lcd, the lesser its image quality. Small lcd with excellent quality is way too expensive.
Fonski,
Yes you can buy an lcd that is locally available. Osram 250w hqi-ts NDL is locally available at Osram Philippines main store located at Libis Quezon City, near the flyover being constructed. You have to hurry to buy the bulb because there are 4 pcs left. The store clerk said that its been there for a long time and only now, i mean me, bought this kind of bulb.
With regards to optics, no locally available parts. But I can sell u fresnel lens, varifocal lens and condenser lens> i am still waiting it to arrive anytime now from abroad. You can buy second hand OHP at HMR but be careful about the projection lens. Its very hard to identify whether its triplet or not unless otherwise marked in the OHP housing. Inspect the fresnel for clarity. Some are really worn out.
Benq,samsung,mags, nec,acer and other brands are available
but i cannot guarantee about the performance because i have not tried it myself. But if you will have time to read other threads, it will help you decide what lcd to use. Be aware that these are 15inc LCD and you will have to live with a bigger cabinet. I think you should buy cmv1512 abroad if ever you will decide to use 15 inch lcd. i saw some post about its performance and it look great.
I broke my Benq 567s. Only used it i think for one week then its gone so i am not really sure if this is better than the one i am using now because i had not optimize my pj then.
If you want my quality of pj, I will have to order in Taiwan for you. If you want to order yourself,you have to prove to them first that you are a capable integrator first so that they wiil give you production sample. But I am still waiting for a group buy of 10 pcs.
before I will order.
for the Liliput, i have already presented my credentials to them and they are just waiting for my order. Actually they say they require minimum 10 pcs but are also willing to give production sample.
I will not guarantee that its better than my pj cause i have not tried it myself.
Hertz
Please email to me your budget and will tell u the quality of projector that you can make. If you want the best, use cmv1512. If you want a smaller cabinet like mine, use B084SN02. If you you want the smallest one, use the liliput with vga input. As you can see the smaller the lcd, the lesser its image quality. Small lcd with excellent quality is way too expensive.
Fonski,
Yes you can buy an lcd that is locally available. Osram 250w hqi-ts NDL is locally available at Osram Philippines main store located at Libis Quezon City, near the flyover being constructed. You have to hurry to buy the bulb because there are 4 pcs left. The store clerk said that its been there for a long time and only now, i mean me, bought this kind of bulb.
With regards to optics, no locally available parts. But I can sell u fresnel lens, varifocal lens and condenser lens> i am still waiting it to arrive anytime now from abroad. You can buy second hand OHP at HMR but be careful about the projection lens. Its very hard to identify whether its triplet or not unless otherwise marked in the OHP housing. Inspect the fresnel for clarity. Some are really worn out.
Benq,samsung,mags, nec,acer and other brands are available
but i cannot guarantee about the performance because i have not tried it myself. But if you will have time to read other threads, it will help you decide what lcd to use. Be aware that these are 15inc LCD and you will have to live with a bigger cabinet. I think you should buy cmv1512 abroad if ever you will decide to use 15 inch lcd. i saw some post about its performance and it look great.
I broke my Benq 567s. Only used it i think for one week then its gone so i am not really sure if this is better than the one i am using now because i had not optimize my pj then.
If you want my quality of pj, I will have to order in Taiwan for you. If you want to order yourself,you have to prove to them first that you are a capable integrator first so that they wiil give you production sample. But I am still waiting for a group buy of 10 pcs.
before I will order.
for the Liliput, i have already presented my credentials to them and they are just waiting for my order. Actually they say they require minimum 10 pcs but are also willing to give production sample.
I will not guarantee that its better than my pj cause i have not tried it myself.
Hertz
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