Going a bit offtopic here.
In the end it really depends on the situation, so whatever works best for you! 🙂
Room modes in general can go up as high as roughly 150-200Hz.
If you can position the subs in a symmetrical way (so two in front like a stereo pair), my suggestion would be to even cross those 8 inch woofers even higher.
The thought behind it, is because you have much more control with the subwoofers over room modes, compared to these mid-range woofers.
Which you basically can't to much with in sense of delay/phase etc etc. (bit hard to explain).
I don't really apply a golden rule or advice here, but see it case-by-case basis.
Mostly because rooms can be so widely different, especially in other parts of the world.
Good looking and matching aesthetics is already bonus points even for the sound! LOL 😀 😀
I'm running fully active here, with 10 channels of DSP and tons of power, so I can control all drivers individually as I please 😉
Thank you for the advice.... but true... let's keep on topic 👍
Yeah... aesthetics is quite important for the total experience 😊
Thank you for the advice.... but true... let's keep on topic 👍
Yeah... aesthetics is quite important for the total experience 😊
Yes, but you can't change the delay/phase etc etc etc for a mid-range for room-modes, since this will effect not only the crossover with the tweeter, but also the stereo image.
You don't have that issue with the subwoofers, that's what I mean with "more control".
I guess more freedom in sense of EQ'ing is probably a better word to describe it.
Agreed. I don't EQ for the room above around 400Hz. I absolutely aim for a neutral sound and try to follow all the basic/classic theories 👍
On a different note:
It's great fun to follow the development and release of new drivers and techniques. But many cheaper and older drivers, are definitely still used with great success in many designs.
Do you know how the Dayton Sig version in contrast to the RS, has higher Fs but also heavier cone? Because I was under the impression that a heavier cone usually lowers the Fs. Could it be the difference between a phase-plug and one-piece cone, together with the different coil material?
probably because of stiffer suspension.
The "advantage" is usually a lower vas.
Or just a lot less sexy and fancy answer; measured under different conditions?
If we just compare the 4 ohm RS180 6inch alu version, the Vas is basically identical.
I also don't find the Mms that far off, with 19g vs 18g and even the Cms is not so different.
Fs is 38Hz vs 40Hz, so also not wildly different.
Biggest difference is BL and Qms -> Rms
Rms makes sense, since the SIG has a much more open motor structure.
Voice Coil diameter is smaller, yet it seems to handle power a little better.
(although compare those is never apples vs apples)
Don't know what the magnet diameter is of the RS180, but I think the SIG is just way better optimized.
If we just compare the 4 ohm RS180 6inch alu version, the Vas is basically identical.
I also don't find the Mms that far off, with 19g vs 18g and even the Cms is not so different.
Fs is 38Hz vs 40Hz, so also not wildly different.
Biggest difference is BL and Qms -> Rms
Rms makes sense, since the SIG has a much more open motor structure.
Voice Coil diameter is smaller, yet it seems to handle power a little better.
(although compare those is never apples vs apples)
Don't know what the magnet diameter is of the RS180, but I think the SIG is just way better optimized.
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Good point, I didn't see it was quite so cheap. Doubt it will stay there for lo g after launch!
It might. The RS series increased in price, but they're still firmly in the 'affordable' price bracket. For most of those living outside the UK anyway. 
Soo... what's with the 4 ohm version... and no 8 ohm? I'll just couple them in series for two.... but I still wondered...
Given past form, they might bring an 8ohm model out. I'd assume higher sensitivity from the increased current draw though -it can end up being more practical once step-loss etc. is factored in with drivers of this size.
Ah... so focused on passive constructions first I see...
Again I focused on coupling two in parallel to cover the base range.... since that is also a classic way of covering the lower frequencies with enough volume and baffle-step.
Makes no odds as far as headroom is concerned whether it's passive or active, notwithstanding any minor losses from series / loop R in circuit, & inductor DCR, all of which should be minimised anyway in a quality system (with a handful of exceptions that are unlikely to ever apply with this unit).
True... I just turn a nob, and then the gain is adjusted for each driver, but still I was curious, since where I heard most of the choice between 8 and 4 ohm drivers, was when designing passive filters.
Signature series seems to be able to play in around 2/3 of the volume of RS series, with no apparent loss of spl, when simulated. At what level does air volume seriously start to fight the laws of nature?
Am I missing something?
Less bass extension?
There must be some price to pay?
Am I missing something?
Less bass extension?
There must be some price to pay?
Well, I suppose it is if you view active filter design as 'just turning a [k]nob' (I know you're oversimplifying 😉 ) and with passive filters the impedance is part & parcel. Beyond that -not a lot really other than the costs move about between larger caps & smaller inductors, or visa versa.
I actually have a multi-turn knob on my pre-amp, and I literally just turn and push it a few times to freely adjust the individual volume/gain of each channel. It has 8 individually digitally controlled analog outputs, which follow each other at their adjusted position, as I use the master volume.
So I set the individual volume for the least sensitive drivers to "0"(max) and dial down the rest until the overall level fits - after individual EQ/filter design of course.
Almost all the driver are out of stock at present.... so I have to wait a few weeks anyway.
I still ponder a bit on the design, seeing if the Signature could add to something, or I'll just jump the RS line - since everyone knows that one, and its performance is well documented in a plethora of designs.
So I set the individual volume for the least sensitive drivers to "0"(max) and dial down the rest until the overall level fits - after individual EQ/filter design of course.
Almost all the driver are out of stock at present.... so I have to wait a few weeks anyway.
I still ponder a bit on the design, seeing if the Signature could add to something, or I'll just jump the RS line - since everyone knows that one, and its performance is well documented in a plethora of designs.
Something often overlooked with active designs is that the native sensitivity of each driver still matters as related to dynamic compression. Your lowest sensitivity driver will set the systems linear dynamic ability, so using a very low sensitivity driver is not necessarily a good idea, even if DSP makes it easy to match levels. For a better idea of this, check out Erin's audio corner videos where he shows dynamic compression.
I agree... and I do not do that. I wouldn't try and match a 110dB horn with a 85 dB woofer or something like that. I'm within 2-3dB in most of my designs.
And - 2 x 8" 8 ohm drivers in parallel, fits quite well with the rest of my system. 2 x 8" 4 ohm in series could work too... I might just need a few dB's in relative adjustment to make it all smooth and flat again.
Well, nothing to stop you per se, since you could simply attenuate the horn output rather than boost the lower-sensitivity element, which is usually a better policy anyway in terms of overall level-adjusting. Job-jibbed.
Not that my opinion is worth much -at the moment, I'd be inclined toward the RS series simply because there's more data at present. That may change, but until it does, I personally like the known quantity aspect -probably a reflection of my own financial status and the almost total absence of funds for audio (or anything else) so I can't really afford to take risks. Be that as it may though, for drivers of their type & price, the various aluminium-cone RS180 and RS225 models take some beating, providing you use them properly.
Not that my opinion is worth much -at the moment, I'd be inclined toward the RS series simply because there's more data at present. That may change, but until it does, I personally like the known quantity aspect -probably a reflection of my own financial status and the almost total absence of funds for audio (or anything else) so I can't really afford to take risks. Be that as it may though, for drivers of their type & price, the various aluminium-cone RS180 and RS225 models take some beating, providing you use them properly.
Anyone knows whether Dayton publish datasheets with fresh drivers or if they give them a bit of "play" first? Parameters tend to change with a bit of "exercise".