Eh? I'm not sure I see a conspiracy here... Then again, I don't follow your posts around, so can't really comment on anything you've posted to other threads. Looks to me like this thread just plain fizzled out. That happens a lot around here... so many threads, so little time. Something's gotta give.
Usually, people just stick to the most interesting threads at the time. Unfortunately, that often means 'uninteresting' (too basic) questions occasionally get ignored. It's not really anyone's intention or any sort of elitism at all - just sort of a natural side effect of having a bunch of variously-skilled people together who have no direct incentive other than goodwill to help each other out. The more skilled / experienced people tend to automatically gravitate together in order to discuss whatever obscure technical challenges they're facing or trying to learn about, while the newbies are left together, unable to answer each other's questions.
As a newcomer, that means you have to be persistent, and maybe do a little extra work. Even though there are plenty of generous folk willing to help out beginners, people still don't like answering questions which have already been discussed. Ideally, the wiki is where you'd find all these answers, but of course, it takes effort to put stuff in there, so it's not as complete as we might like. That means you've gotta search the forums. Next, you've gotta be prepared to keep a thread from going completely dead, or else try and stick to the hot threads. And of course, you've also gotta be prepared to deal with all the colourful personalities here. Despite how they may seem at first, I have come to believe that just about everyone here is making a genuine effort to help each other out, and that includes PD. Eveyone has their own motivations, some of them commercial, but DIY stereo building is certainly not a competitive sport (except perhaps the ego-building aspect). In fact, I'd say it's in the best interest of those with audio businesses to help us hobbyists as much as possible, the only exception of course being the disclosure of certain details about their products. But there is definitely no secrecy surrounding the GainClone!
So, you seem to be equipped with the thick skin and persistence needed to take on these difficulties as part of the learning challenge... I think you'll do well if you continue hangin around here.
Lastly, since you may not be aware, the forum went through a bit of a nasty spell a little over a year ago, with some high-profile personality clashes and a lot of very upset people. But the overall tone here lately has been very positive and constructive, so I think it's best to try and keep that momentum. Posting negative comments and expressing frustration here now is akin to prodding the hornets nest with a stick that ain't long enough - people won't be too receptive of it in light of what's happened in the past. So do be careful what you post, especially since we don't have the benefit of body language and all that subtlety which comes with direct verbal communication.
Usually, people just stick to the most interesting threads at the time. Unfortunately, that often means 'uninteresting' (too basic) questions occasionally get ignored. It's not really anyone's intention or any sort of elitism at all - just sort of a natural side effect of having a bunch of variously-skilled people together who have no direct incentive other than goodwill to help each other out. The more skilled / experienced people tend to automatically gravitate together in order to discuss whatever obscure technical challenges they're facing or trying to learn about, while the newbies are left together, unable to answer each other's questions.
As a newcomer, that means you have to be persistent, and maybe do a little extra work. Even though there are plenty of generous folk willing to help out beginners, people still don't like answering questions which have already been discussed. Ideally, the wiki is where you'd find all these answers, but of course, it takes effort to put stuff in there, so it's not as complete as we might like. That means you've gotta search the forums. Next, you've gotta be prepared to keep a thread from going completely dead, or else try and stick to the hot threads. And of course, you've also gotta be prepared to deal with all the colourful personalities here. Despite how they may seem at first, I have come to believe that just about everyone here is making a genuine effort to help each other out, and that includes PD. Eveyone has their own motivations, some of them commercial, but DIY stereo building is certainly not a competitive sport (except perhaps the ego-building aspect). In fact, I'd say it's in the best interest of those with audio businesses to help us hobbyists as much as possible, the only exception of course being the disclosure of certain details about their products. But there is definitely no secrecy surrounding the GainClone!
So, you seem to be equipped with the thick skin and persistence needed to take on these difficulties as part of the learning challenge... I think you'll do well if you continue hangin around here.
Lastly, since you may not be aware, the forum went through a bit of a nasty spell a little over a year ago, with some high-profile personality clashes and a lot of very upset people. But the overall tone here lately has been very positive and constructive, so I think it's best to try and keep that momentum. Posting negative comments and expressing frustration here now is akin to prodding the hornets nest with a stick that ain't long enough - people won't be too receptive of it in light of what's happened in the past. So do be careful what you post, especially since we don't have the benefit of body language and all that subtlety which comes with direct verbal communication.
No to ignore you ekd, but the whole miniature thing doesn't do it for me. No trip of the ol' trigger, as it were.
Too bad we don't all have a decent machine shop in our garage. 🙁 Of course, if I did, I wouldn't be here, I'd be off makin $$$. 😉ekd said:
I've been trying to figure out how to use my router to mill aluminum, at least just for cleaning up edges. I've already figured out that I'll need the smallest diameter carbide cutters I can get (no larger than 1/4 inch), and that the router will have to run at it's slowest speed (8000 RPM). Even then, the SFM will be right near the limit. Now I have to figure out the best way to feed material past the cutter. Any ideas?
Also, while searching for info on this, I found a handy calculator program. It's called ME Consultant 2.0, and you can download it for free. Has lots of material properties and tool sizes etc built in, so you can just look up whatever info you need. Check here.
I use 1/2" router bit with bearing and template. That's the most convenient and safe way to finish the edges (works well up to 1/4 thickness). And I don't pay that much attention to the proper speed😉
Ever tried 3/8"? That's what I've got my sights on... front panels for my new Aleph-Xs. 🙂 I'd be taking very light passes of course, but you don't think 1/2" cutter is too large? How do the chips look?
I'm not really using router for straight passes, as this is much more efficiently done with table saw and belt sander after.
I'm using router for curves and cutouts and I've been using both small and lrge dia. bits, but it seems to me that bigger one works faster with out any drawbacks. If the speed is high enough, chips look good too😉
I'm using router for curves and cutouts and I've been using both small and lrge dia. bits, but it seems to me that bigger one works faster with out any drawbacks. If the speed is high enough, chips look good too😉
Gentlemen...
I thought this thread *had* fizzled. I saw it as the perfect place to vent my building frustration, among a few people that "knew" me.
Chad, thank you for taking the time to explain the situation here, I had no grasp of this, only a few scattered hints. However, my very first post (after 2 thanking *everyone* for their useful participation in this forum ) that requested info... was ignored. I was not too worried. I tried again. and again.
Twice in this thread, I pointed out that I still needed help. I quit thinking that it was something I was doing wrong, or that it would simply be a matter of giving something before asking for anything. I became confused... and then pi55ed.
I am not saying that my contributions were of any value, but I do firmly believe that I have shown a real willingness to share anything that I think might have value (even to the point of possibly appearing too eager, or worse yet...sycophantic). Anytime. And I believe that until last night, I have managed to convey my thoughts without *too* much of my trademark bluntness (M was the big test).
The fact that I was able to get a question answered for the benefit of someone else (copper tape/pcb trace thickness), within hours... added to my frustration considerably.
If I had known that my post would be seen by more than the few contributors to this thread, I would have worded it (well, tried to)as carefully as I try to do at all other times. The points would have remained, however. As well as the frustration.
The fact that I was allowed to vent here, without being shunned, proves that I had one thing *completely* wrong. I do belong here. And you guys are a he(( of a lot tougher than you look in your Sunday clothes...
Thank you all for taking the time on this one. It will *not* be wasted.
E
P.S. A stick, huh? Why didn't I think of that?!? 😀
I thought this thread *had* fizzled. I saw it as the perfect place to vent my building frustration, among a few people that "knew" me.
Chad, thank you for taking the time to explain the situation here, I had no grasp of this, only a few scattered hints. However, my very first post (after 2 thanking *everyone* for their useful participation in this forum ) that requested info... was ignored. I was not too worried. I tried again. and again.
Twice in this thread, I pointed out that I still needed help. I quit thinking that it was something I was doing wrong, or that it would simply be a matter of giving something before asking for anything. I became confused... and then pi55ed.
I am not saying that my contributions were of any value, but I do firmly believe that I have shown a real willingness to share anything that I think might have value (even to the point of possibly appearing too eager, or worse yet...sycophantic). Anytime. And I believe that until last night, I have managed to convey my thoughts without *too* much of my trademark bluntness (M was the big test).
The fact that I was able to get a question answered for the benefit of someone else (copper tape/pcb trace thickness), within hours... added to my frustration considerably.
If I had known that my post would be seen by more than the few contributors to this thread, I would have worded it (well, tried to)as carefully as I try to do at all other times. The points would have remained, however. As well as the frustration.
The fact that I was allowed to vent here, without being shunned, proves that I had one thing *completely* wrong. I do belong here. And you guys are a he(( of a lot tougher than you look in your Sunday clothes...
Thank you all for taking the time on this one. It will *not* be wasted.
E
P.S. A stick, huh? Why didn't I think of that?!? 😀
baggystevo82 said:
I don't know why it never ocured to me?
Probably because not being machinist, I don't know what proper end mill really is.😉
aren't those cutters more suited to high feeds for roughing? or are they just used for roughing as they dont leave flat sides to their cut? i would think the cutting force would be higher too, which may not be the best in a had held tool like a router, as the cutting edge is longer. would leave weird maybe good textured finish though.
Steve
Steve
They are used for roughing because the chips come out smaller. The cutting forces are lower because the "single chip" of "a" flute is spread across several "teeth" in several flutes. They noticably reduce loads on a milling machine The finish isn't bad, but its not nearly as nice as a high helix.
As for speeds and feeds, speed is everything you got. WFO anticipating a carbide mill. Maybe 8-10,000 if you are running HSS. Try a little WD-40 for the lube. Stay away from TIN coated tooling.
Peter Daniel's suggestion of a roller is a good one as it controls the depth of cut. You won't be able to find that on a proper end mill.
As for speeds and feeds, speed is everything you got. WFO anticipating a carbide mill. Maybe 8-10,000 if you are running HSS. Try a little WD-40 for the lube. Stay away from TIN coated tooling.
Peter Daniel's suggestion of a roller is a good one as it controls the depth of cut. You won't be able to find that on a proper end mill.
Some truth to it there is..
EKD is though right in some aspects. Unfortunately it is only possible to make a discussion about machining on the level he asks for between reasonably educated and experienced people....and that leaves you with very few people on a board like this.
I hoped for a few more of the machine guys to come out of the closet if the proposed new forum for crafting was made, I though havnt seen it yet, but maybe its on its way.
Another thing to remember when asking for something like a serious discussion of the kind you did, is that those few that actually know what they are doing according to machining (I guess thats the same for electronics and so forth), will mostly do whatever they can to help the beginners/- amateurs, but I doubt if anybody bothers discussing the mere facts. If people dont like an answer and begins to discuss it, with little or no knowledge to back it up....most people give up and let the person claim whatever the person wants to.
Half a year ago I would jump in any discussion that had just a little to to with metalworking, plastics and fibre reinforced plastics. After wasting loads of time on people who think they are gods gift to any of the above mentioned diciplines, but actually hardly being experienced amateurs, I quit doing that.
In machining as well as molding, there is little left for the coincidence, and hence its mostly fact based. If there are some people here that thinks its just a matter of preserving their position here on the board or their egos.....fine, but I for one have better things to do than wasting my time on such.
As it is now, I estimate what the person asking is looking for, and if I believe its actually an answer to a real life problem thats keeping him from progressing, Ill gladly help. On the other hand, if its posted by certain people or its obvious that its hypotetical, I remain silent.
Im quite sure im not the only one here with that attitude, as I know there are a few others here that are well educated and skilled in such matters as well.
Magura🙂
EKD is though right in some aspects. Unfortunately it is only possible to make a discussion about machining on the level he asks for between reasonably educated and experienced people....and that leaves you with very few people on a board like this.
I hoped for a few more of the machine guys to come out of the closet if the proposed new forum for crafting was made, I though havnt seen it yet, but maybe its on its way.
Another thing to remember when asking for something like a serious discussion of the kind you did, is that those few that actually know what they are doing according to machining (I guess thats the same for electronics and so forth), will mostly do whatever they can to help the beginners/- amateurs, but I doubt if anybody bothers discussing the mere facts. If people dont like an answer and begins to discuss it, with little or no knowledge to back it up....most people give up and let the person claim whatever the person wants to.
Half a year ago I would jump in any discussion that had just a little to to with metalworking, plastics and fibre reinforced plastics. After wasting loads of time on people who think they are gods gift to any of the above mentioned diciplines, but actually hardly being experienced amateurs, I quit doing that.
In machining as well as molding, there is little left for the coincidence, and hence its mostly fact based. If there are some people here that thinks its just a matter of preserving their position here on the board or their egos.....fine, but I for one have better things to do than wasting my time on such.
As it is now, I estimate what the person asking is looking for, and if I believe its actually an answer to a real life problem thats keeping him from progressing, Ill gladly help. On the other hand, if its posted by certain people or its obvious that its hypotetical, I remain silent.
Im quite sure im not the only one here with that attitude, as I know there are a few others here that are well educated and skilled in such matters as well.
Magura🙂
That is a particularly interesting attitude and one that, as I think more about life, seems like a good one to exercise in most cases.
Are they really thinking about doing that? Sweet.
I guess I do question authority quite a bit more than I ought to, I know I'm only young and only have 5 or 6 years of experience in this field under less than ideal conditions, and I apologise if I appeared a little over stubborn at times.
I think ekd I may have missed your question (I havent had constant access to a computer recently), or maybe it was just something I couldnt answer, or there was something more appealing to answer at that time.
The point where you stop needing help is when you stop needing diyaudio! Probably something that will never happen for most of us, if not all. Just be more persistent in your questioning if you're having problems getting answered, and maybe just get a bit more specific if you get no replies, that often helps. Like rather than asking 'how can I improve this' youd probably have more luck on this forum asking something like 'if i change this component will it be good or worthwhile'. That's just my experience and observations though, could be completely wrong, hehe. Either way I don't think ranting on about conspiracies and such is the answer, though a few of your points may be valid, these are just the nature of human discussions, particularly online as someone pointed out earlier when you cant interact completely with the people you're talking to.
Steve
The use of the word "conspiracy" (twice now) had me confused till I re-read the post. I did not intend to say that there was a concerted effort here. I was pointing out the natural tendancy of humans to try to slow down others, rather than get "faster" themselves.
I see it all the time... I've been racing, one thing or another, for over 35 yrs, and was into competitive shooting for a while (Machismo Central). I just did not expect to see it here (no finish line, no target rings...).
I am just smart enough to realize that I am not going to change human nature... But...
I do find it a bit bothersome when anyone tries to take on the appearance of being above all that (guru... an all knowing and benevolent distributor of needed knowledge), while picking and choosing who gets the help (based on personality, or any of the above "list"). I have no illusions that I somehow have an inborn right to anyone's time/knowledge... but you can bet on one thing...
If I see someone running around with a home-made coat hanger and glitter halo, and suspect that it is more about image than intent...
It is all I can do not to knock it off their head. I have that right, I have spent more of my time and money doing volunteer work and mentoring (NOT in electronics... Smarta55!! 😀 ) than you would ever believe. And met my share of self appointed (and heavily self promoted) "gurus".
I'll get more specific here, if asked, but I think we all get the point. And this thread does not need any more of my rambling...
E
I see it all the time... I've been racing, one thing or another, for over 35 yrs, and was into competitive shooting for a while (Machismo Central). I just did not expect to see it here (no finish line, no target rings...).
I am just smart enough to realize that I am not going to change human nature... But...
I do find it a bit bothersome when anyone tries to take on the appearance of being above all that (guru... an all knowing and benevolent distributor of needed knowledge), while picking and choosing who gets the help (based on personality, or any of the above "list"). I have no illusions that I somehow have an inborn right to anyone's time/knowledge... but you can bet on one thing...
If I see someone running around with a home-made coat hanger and glitter halo, and suspect that it is more about image than intent...
It is all I can do not to knock it off their head. I have that right, I have spent more of my time and money doing volunteer work and mentoring (NOT in electronics... Smarta55!! 😀 ) than you would ever believe. And met my share of self appointed (and heavily self promoted) "gurus".
I'll get more specific here, if asked, but I think we all get the point. And this thread does not need any more of my rambling...
E
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