Hi Alan,
As you have them sitting around, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the ACAs with the Halcyons. I wired them in parallel mono this morning and amazed. I feel like I have plenty of power, still haven't run out of steam and the volume is at enjoyable floor shaking listening levels. I tried a single ACA in stereo, experienced some undamped bass so went straight to parallel mono this morning. Made sense with the load dipping below 4 ohms in places.
More thoughts later. Gladiator soundtrack is pumping to get them woofer cones moving. I need to get some work done and dig out from a foot of snow. This storm waited until nightfall to do its worse which is fine by me. I love bad weather. Makes it all ok to stay in and listen to good music on a good system.
As you have them sitting around, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the ACAs with the Halcyons. I wired them in parallel mono this morning and amazed. I feel like I have plenty of power, still haven't run out of steam and the volume is at enjoyable floor shaking listening levels. I tried a single ACA in stereo, experienced some undamped bass so went straight to parallel mono this morning. Made sense with the load dipping below 4 ohms in places.
More thoughts later. Gladiator soundtrack is pumping to get them woofer cones moving. I need to get some work done and dig out from a foot of snow. This storm waited until nightfall to do its worse which is fine by me. I love bad weather. Makes it all ok to stay in and listen to good music on a good system.
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Glad to know you are up and running. I went to Home Depot for the first time in 6 months at least for some electrical, and while I was there I picked up the sonotubes I need for the halcyon build. It was the only thing I lacked.
However, after reading the last few posts, I think I will inspect my foam and also the stuffing and possibly order some more based upon your experiences. I would have to shortchange the cabinet after spending a small fortune on the crossover.
I have also decided to put connectors on the crossover and cabinet so I can directly drive the drivers if I want to experiment with a different crossover or active on at least.
I am really encouraged that my Halcyons will do what I want them to do for my system based upon the comments here.
-david BTW
However, after reading the last few posts, I think I will inspect my foam and also the stuffing and possibly order some more based upon your experiences. I would have to shortchange the cabinet after spending a small fortune on the crossover.
I have also decided to put connectors on the crossover and cabinet so I can directly drive the drivers if I want to experiment with a different crossover or active on at least.
I am really encouraged that my Halcyons will do what I want them to do for my system based upon the comments here.
-david BTW
Some further notes after listening all day yesterday:
1. the level of detail is amazing. I was not expecting this even with looking at the frequency response. The use of "Halcyon" and Curt Campbell's write up had me recalling some of the whizzer cone systems I played with as a kid, sounding "whole" but missing that "air" in the top end.
2. I found they do best pointed at the ears. Stereo image becomes very solid once toed in appropriately. I have no acoustic treatments and bare wood floors so results may vary.
3. No contest with the Dynaudios, not even in the imaging nor the top end. I don't think I ever learned to set the Dynaudios up and probably had them on too high of stands. The Halcyon's have an amazing level of detail, air and authority, definitely effortless compared to the Dynaudios and make the room disappear even with eyes open.
4. I changed too many things but had to. The Dynaudios are powered so stand-alone amplification needed to be added. The ACAs provide enough volume to keep me happy but did manage to make the system sound "hard" when I increased the SW gain to see how loud they'd go. No ability to hear how other amplification would sound currently. After experiencing a single ACA in stereo mode Sat night, I went straight to parallel mono on Sunday. The bass tightened up nicely but the E-string on bass guitars is sticking out. Not sure if it is the room interaction or the stuffing. The stuffing is an easy experiment that I'll try later this week.
5. I got something to burp yesterday. Not sure if it was port noise or over-excursion. Going to stuff the rest of the stuffing in there and give it another listen.
6. The shine on the ports drove me nuts. I know you want smoothness to attempt to keep things laminar but with the sharp edge on the intake side, I didn't think it mattered that much. Took some 220 grit sandpaper to the ports. Once the weather warms up, will hit them with some flat black rattle can. They are simply pressed in so easy enough to remove to paint and add stuffing.
7. I didn't have speaker cable either so I braided together 4 strands of 20 ga. hookup wire I use on my preamp projects to make 6 foot runs. Amazed at the results. There was a blizzard going on so I couldn't run out to Home Depot or Ace to pick up some zip cord.
8. Speaking of hookup wire, Madisound was generous providing 4 extra feet from the 18' stated in the kit write-up. I still used it all and it was tight.
9. Madisound was not generous on the foam (as previously noted by Alan). The sheet they provide was not the specified 1" and I had enough to line the tube with a channel for the hookup wire and a 1" thick circular plug in the back of the tube. I've ordered 1" foam from Amazon (probably the same seller as Alan bought from) but currently running with the Madisound provided foam. Will do my best to provide a comparison once redone but I'm very impressed with the sound as it is.
10. I bolted the crossover board to the bottom of the main cabinet and drilled holes for the hookup wire (see picture). I ran the wire from the bi-amp cup for input and didn't even bother with the pedestal cup. I'd do without the pedestal cup cutout if I did it again. Somewhere here, I'll make a cover. I don't have the ease of switching like Alan has but given a soldering iron and some time, I can switch over to an active x-over.
11. I chose the least expensive x-over build w/o electrolytics. Very happy with the result. The plan is to upgrade in the future and listen for the changes. However, with the regular sandcast resistors and Solen cap, these sound phenomenal. Not at all let down with the choice to save a couple bucks.
12. Given the wood floors the speakers sit on, I've found they slide with the slightest pressure. Working on a feet solution with the IsoAcoustics Gaia feet. Will provide a write-up once done. Them damn things are expensive but I liked the results on my Dynaudios.
13. It didn't seem much break-in was needed. I had bought the Alpairs awhile ago as they were going to be the start of a design but then I found Curt Campbell's design. I had run them on the ACAs sans baffles a few months ago when I got the ACAs done to verify working condition. Other than that, the Halcyons sounded authoritative, articulate and detailed on the first hookup. (So, yeah, as I bought the kit, I've got an extra pair of Alpairs sitting around. A nice problem to have.)
All-in-all, very happy and back to enjoying stereo playback like I've experienced with some of my better systems in the past. Thanks for an excellent and fun design Mr. Campbell! Thanks to Bob of Big Wood Studio for the flat pack. And to Alan for the impetus in taking the plunge.
The playlist yesterday:
1. Peter Gabriel - Passion Soundtrack
2. Gladiator soundtrack
3. Dead Can Dance - Toward the Within (live)
4. ELO - Out of the Blue
5. Gorecki's 3rd - Dawn Upshaw
6. Holst's Planets - Mehta/LA Phil
7. The Lumineers - The Lumineers
8. Morricone - The Mission soundtrack
9. Orbison - "Only the Lonely"
10. Orff - Carmina Burana - Jochum/Berlin
11. Puccini - La Boheme - Karajan/Berlin/Pavarotti
12. Atticus Ross - "Panoramic" from The Book of Eli soundtrack
13. Sinatra - In the Wee Small Hours
14. Vangelis - Blade Runner soundtrack
15. Yes - Roundabout
1. the level of detail is amazing. I was not expecting this even with looking at the frequency response. The use of "Halcyon" and Curt Campbell's write up had me recalling some of the whizzer cone systems I played with as a kid, sounding "whole" but missing that "air" in the top end.
2. I found they do best pointed at the ears. Stereo image becomes very solid once toed in appropriately. I have no acoustic treatments and bare wood floors so results may vary.
3. No contest with the Dynaudios, not even in the imaging nor the top end. I don't think I ever learned to set the Dynaudios up and probably had them on too high of stands. The Halcyon's have an amazing level of detail, air and authority, definitely effortless compared to the Dynaudios and make the room disappear even with eyes open.
4. I changed too many things but had to. The Dynaudios are powered so stand-alone amplification needed to be added. The ACAs provide enough volume to keep me happy but did manage to make the system sound "hard" when I increased the SW gain to see how loud they'd go. No ability to hear how other amplification would sound currently. After experiencing a single ACA in stereo mode Sat night, I went straight to parallel mono on Sunday. The bass tightened up nicely but the E-string on bass guitars is sticking out. Not sure if it is the room interaction or the stuffing. The stuffing is an easy experiment that I'll try later this week.
5. I got something to burp yesterday. Not sure if it was port noise or over-excursion. Going to stuff the rest of the stuffing in there and give it another listen.
6. The shine on the ports drove me nuts. I know you want smoothness to attempt to keep things laminar but with the sharp edge on the intake side, I didn't think it mattered that much. Took some 220 grit sandpaper to the ports. Once the weather warms up, will hit them with some flat black rattle can. They are simply pressed in so easy enough to remove to paint and add stuffing.
7. I didn't have speaker cable either so I braided together 4 strands of 20 ga. hookup wire I use on my preamp projects to make 6 foot runs. Amazed at the results. There was a blizzard going on so I couldn't run out to Home Depot or Ace to pick up some zip cord.
8. Speaking of hookup wire, Madisound was generous providing 4 extra feet from the 18' stated in the kit write-up. I still used it all and it was tight.
9. Madisound was not generous on the foam (as previously noted by Alan). The sheet they provide was not the specified 1" and I had enough to line the tube with a channel for the hookup wire and a 1" thick circular plug in the back of the tube. I've ordered 1" foam from Amazon (probably the same seller as Alan bought from) but currently running with the Madisound provided foam. Will do my best to provide a comparison once redone but I'm very impressed with the sound as it is.
10. I bolted the crossover board to the bottom of the main cabinet and drilled holes for the hookup wire (see picture). I ran the wire from the bi-amp cup for input and didn't even bother with the pedestal cup. I'd do without the pedestal cup cutout if I did it again. Somewhere here, I'll make a cover. I don't have the ease of switching like Alan has but given a soldering iron and some time, I can switch over to an active x-over.
11. I chose the least expensive x-over build w/o electrolytics. Very happy with the result. The plan is to upgrade in the future and listen for the changes. However, with the regular sandcast resistors and Solen cap, these sound phenomenal. Not at all let down with the choice to save a couple bucks.
12. Given the wood floors the speakers sit on, I've found they slide with the slightest pressure. Working on a feet solution with the IsoAcoustics Gaia feet. Will provide a write-up once done. Them damn things are expensive but I liked the results on my Dynaudios.
13. It didn't seem much break-in was needed. I had bought the Alpairs awhile ago as they were going to be the start of a design but then I found Curt Campbell's design. I had run them on the ACAs sans baffles a few months ago when I got the ACAs done to verify working condition. Other than that, the Halcyons sounded authoritative, articulate and detailed on the first hookup. (So, yeah, as I bought the kit, I've got an extra pair of Alpairs sitting around. A nice problem to have.)
All-in-all, very happy and back to enjoying stereo playback like I've experienced with some of my better systems in the past. Thanks for an excellent and fun design Mr. Campbell! Thanks to Bob of Big Wood Studio for the flat pack. And to Alan for the impetus in taking the plunge.
The playlist yesterday:
1. Peter Gabriel - Passion Soundtrack
2. Gladiator soundtrack
3. Dead Can Dance - Toward the Within (live)
4. ELO - Out of the Blue
5. Gorecki's 3rd - Dawn Upshaw
6. Holst's Planets - Mehta/LA Phil
7. The Lumineers - The Lumineers
8. Morricone - The Mission soundtrack
9. Orbison - "Only the Lonely"
10. Orff - Carmina Burana - Jochum/Berlin
11. Puccini - La Boheme - Karajan/Berlin/Pavarotti
12. Atticus Ross - "Panoramic" from The Book of Eli soundtrack
13. Sinatra - In the Wee Small Hours
14. Vangelis - Blade Runner soundtrack
15. Yes - Roundabout
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A comment that probably applies to any well done WAW. There are mny out there to have their ears rocked ;^)
Except when you don’t. The B&W vent inspired by sharks (and golf balls).
I would use very pure solid copper wire — typically 24 g up top. A little thicker on the bottom (multiple starnd of above). No cheap zipcord or over the top welding leads..
dave
6sX7,
Excellent write up on your listening impressions. Still early days, so won't be surprised if you have more. 🙂 Thank you for sharing.
From the descriptions provided by yourself and Alanhuth, sounds like a very enjoyable speaker.
Davebtw,
Hopefully you will be able to complete your build soon!
Excellent write up on your listening impressions. Still early days, so won't be surprised if you have more. 🙂 Thank you for sharing.
From the descriptions provided by yourself and Alanhuth, sounds like a very enjoyable speaker.
Davebtw,
Hopefully you will be able to complete your build soon!
This stuff: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G3HH9BX/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glt_fabc_9F51Y5TJ041YW3GHG72P
Other than the sensitivity, it has definitely fulfilled my requirements and then some. Even with the sensitivity, the combination with the ACAs provides ample floor shaking. Colour me happy. 😀
daveBTW, very much not sure if a 300B SET would play well with the Halcyons. The only experience I've had with such an amp was 15 years ago. It had a similar sonic character in the low end as the ACA in stereo mode, more blobby/less slammy.
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Given the expected sensitivity, about 90dB, there hould be sufficien tpower (unless room big and you play real loud), but i could not find a measured impedance curve (are either of the deigners watching with one in their archives?).
dave
Priced for a pair. Shipping is not included and will be a bit of a beast but Bob can chime in on that. The Halcyon
– Big Wood Studio
Flat-Pack speaker kits by Big Wood Studio
That is where i looked first. A chart with the individual drivers is there (useful when designin gthe XO), but, after 3 passes, i cannot see one with drivers & XO together.
dave
dave
If I'm tracking this is the system electrical response with Purple = Impedance and Red = Phase:
Unsure if any of the readers are color blind, curve starting below 5 on the left is impedance and colored purple.
Unsure if any of the readers are color blind, curve starting below 5 on the left is impedance and colored purple.
That is the individual responses of the drivers in the box before XO development. It does not answer our question.
dave
dave
Ah, I'm following now. I had made the assumption it was due to the double peak in the curve. Used to seeing those for ported boxes. Unsure how serial x-overs impact the curve as I've never worked with one until now.
Or maybe I'm not following now. It is labeled as the system response. How can you tell it is the individual drivers, not incl. the x-over?
Yje double peaks could cause an issue, but at those frequencies the speakers damping plays role. If you find the bass a bit wooley you can add more fill damping (polypill/Acoustastuf, not foam) to se eif you can fix it.
The issue i was talking about is the often seen big imedance bump at the XO. If it is there a high Rout amp driving it that peak in the impedance will cause at least a bump in the FR.
dave
The issue i was talking about is the often seen big imedance bump at the XO. If it is there a high Rout amp driving it that peak in the impedance will cause at least a bump in the FR.
dave