First time posting on these forums. I have a need to replace a cheap crossover (electrolytic capacitors etc) homemade from a design by Wilmslow Audio many years ago. Can't identify from the components what type of filter it has as the inductors have no label and the caps are of different values.
I am upgrading the tweeter from middle of the road Morel to the Seas T35C002 and pairing it with my Seas W22EX001 woofer.
My dilema is the crossover freq and order type. The freq response ranges as recommended are tweeter: 1500-25000 and woofer 30-2000. With the overlap being narrow I don't know where to start. I'm a novice when it comes to crossover design but I can build and use the calculators. I know it will not be accurate without cabinet respoonse readings etc. Just need a start point.
The cabinets are 45litre floorstanders tuned to 35hz at the present. Cabinet could be expanded to 53litres by removing false floor. Tweeter is mounted back from woofer for time alignment.
Can someone here give advice on the best filter to choose along with crossover frequency. Many thanks.
I am upgrading the tweeter from middle of the road Morel to the Seas T35C002 and pairing it with my Seas W22EX001 woofer.
My dilema is the crossover freq and order type. The freq response ranges as recommended are tweeter: 1500-25000 and woofer 30-2000. With the overlap being narrow I don't know where to start. I'm a novice when it comes to crossover design but I can build and use the calculators. I know it will not be accurate without cabinet respoonse readings etc. Just need a start point.
The cabinets are 45litre floorstanders tuned to 35hz at the present. Cabinet could be expanded to 53litres by removing false floor. Tweeter is mounted back from woofer for time alignment.
Can someone here give advice on the best filter to choose along with crossover frequency. Many thanks.
Welcome to the forum!
I suggest you post photos of the crossover board and supply links to the driver specs.
I suggest you post photos of the crossover board and supply links to the driver specs.
Already looked them up! 😀
Woofer:
E0022-08S W22EX001
T35 Tweeter:
E0055-06 T35C002
It's a SEAS TRYM :
TRYM
But the TRYM uses this one.
E0011-06 T25CF002
Shouldn't need much design change. The tweeter is 6dB louder than the one in the TRYM. Adjust the attenuator appropriately.
Few designs at Madisound too:
SEAS Brand Archives - Madisound Speaker PDF Library
Once you do the bass filter, the rest falls into place. our wilbur-x has done a lot with that woofer:
Seas TRIM (W22EX001 + WG)
Woofer:
E0022-08S W22EX001
T35 Tweeter:
E0055-06 T35C002
It's a SEAS TRYM :
TRYM
But the TRYM uses this one.
E0011-06 T25CF002
Shouldn't need much design change. The tweeter is 6dB louder than the one in the TRYM. Adjust the attenuator appropriately.
Few designs at Madisound too:
SEAS Brand Archives - Madisound Speaker PDF Library
Once you do the bass filter, the rest falls into place. our wilbur-x has done a lot with that woofer:
Seas TRIM (W22EX001 + WG)
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Thank you for responding. I don't wish to replicate what was there before as i'm changing the tweeter to the T35. I'm looking for advice based on the frequency responses of the drivers I will be using. Fresh start basically.
Woofer Seas W22EX001 30-2000 and Tweeter Seas T35C002 1500-25000.
E0022-08S W22EX001
E0055-06 T35C002
Many thanks
Thank you system7 for that. Looks great and I could easily opt for the Millenium tweeter. Would this xover be suitable for my cabinet which is 45litre.? Great response thank you.
Woofer Seas W22EX001 30-2000 and Tweeter Seas T35C002 1500-25000.
E0022-08S W22EX001
E0055-06 T35C002
Many thanks
Thank you system7 for that. Looks great and I could easily opt for the Millenium tweeter. Would this xover be suitable for my cabinet which is 45litre.? Great response thank you.
No need to reinvent the wheel.
Madisound say this :
That's about 45L.
That's about 48L.
I think you'll breeze this. Tweeter attenuator must be around 6R plus 6R in the Trym circuit. The T35 is a more capable tweeter but quite pricey.
The Madisound designs will need some note-taking to sort out but seem to do the same thing.
Madisound say this :
That's about 45L.
That's about 48L.
I think you'll breeze this. Tweeter attenuator must be around 6R plus 6R in the Trym circuit. The T35 is a more capable tweeter but quite pricey.
The Madisound designs will need some note-taking to sort out but seem to do the same thing.
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A big thank you system 7. You've been immense help to me. I feel that I know where i'm going with this project now. Wow 🙂🙂🙂
Tell us how you get on! L2 and C2 might as well be 0.2mH and 4.7uF in my opinion. More convenient values.
These are wilmslow PCBs I used:
Lot of drilling and zip ties and 20A tinned copper employed:
These are wilmslow PCBs I used:
Lot of drilling and zip ties and 20A tinned copper employed:
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I will let you know how it all works out but it'll be a while as the cabinet is getting a new baffle and rear. The timber won't be with me until around Christmas. So many thanks for the help.
Just one more query. Is the tweeter polarity as drawn on the TRYM schematic correct or should it be reversed?
Just a quick FWIW that the crossover is going to be difficult to pull off. I'm using the Prestige 8" woofers (which have a similar response curve to your drivers) in a 2-way speaker, but am using a pair of 1" compression drivers (1.75" diaphragm) and a crossover just under 1kHz.
Even then, I used a 3rd order lowpass and a "bottomless" notch to make sure the woofer's cone breakup peaks were avoided.
The consequence of running too close to the breakup peak(s) is a "zingy" sound in the midrange, which quickly becomes fatiguing. After trying the L22 units full-range, I knew I had to stomp on that ragged kHz range to get anything good out of them at all.
The 1.5" tweeter you've selected, loaded with a shallow waveguide, might allow a crossover in the ~1.2kHz range, which should give you enough wiggle room to get the woofers under control.
Hope you've got a measurement mic.
Chris
If you have the money to spare for around €1.100 for four drivers, you certainly could pull out the cash for a cheap mike perfectly suitable for this job.
This is a fairly low crossover point, so positive polarity looks right to me.
Two-ways are easy enough in my opinion. The theory:
SEAS have gone for a flattish monitor balance. Madisound have done a similar project with a domestic downward slope on balance. The downward slope usually sounds better in lively undamped rooms.
https://www.madisound.com/library/stacks/LEAP-W22EX-001-D2905-9900.pdf
I think all you will do is adjust for level with resistors in the tweeter. Why reinvent the wheel, guys. This is established territory on that woofer. SEAS Excel drivers are usually far easier than prestige ones.
Nobody does a modern crossover without lots of extra little bits to shape the tone, like the one posted above. But takes lots of careful measurements (listening tests during a brief development period are fraught with error)*. Which is why it seems antique not to have a DSP XO in the loop.
Dunno how many times you read in Toole's 3rd edition his urging to use the tone controls on your amp. Makes sense to start the tweeter loud and add an L-pad. That definitely applies to this kind of new tweeter mod.
B.
* first thing to do is run REW with the existing XO to see the voltages into the drivers and the sound coming out; do not start by placing faith on the miracle of engineering specs
Dunno how many times you read in Toole's 3rd edition his urging to use the tone controls on your amp. Makes sense to start the tweeter loud and add an L-pad. That definitely applies to this kind of new tweeter mod.
B.
* first thing to do is run REW with the existing XO to see the voltages into the drivers and the sound coming out; do not start by placing faith on the miracle of engineering specs
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All good advice guys.
Extensive listening tests will be performed without L pad initially. I'm hoping to borrow the measuring kit (if I can turn on the charm) and i'll take it from there.
I am indebted to you for the very helpful experience based advice without which my project would be so much more difficult.
Extensive listening tests will be performed without L pad initially. I'm hoping to borrow the measuring kit (if I can turn on the charm) and i'll take it from there.
I am indebted to you for the very helpful experience based advice without which my project would be so much more difficult.
Well, both drivers (the Prestige ones I've used and the Excel here) have similar breakup problems above a couple of kHz, which must be addressed in the crossover.
It looks like Seas have used a 2nd order filter with a notch in their design, but I was more cautious and went for a 3rd order filter (with notch) an octave lower.
Chris
Noted chris661. Thank you. I'm already using the W22EX001, have been for several years and haven't had a problem with cone breakup so perhaps my current xover is low enough. Time will tell with the new setup.
I do get a bit cross at people who make things harder than they are. The Seas Excel W22EX001 is not the sort of woofer I like but presents few real problems:
A single notch deals with the resonance. I have seen far worse than that one.
THAT needs far more thought.
SpeakerBuilding.com - Interview with Joachim Gerhard of Audio Physic, Page 1
Joachim Gerhard spotted that the Prestige H1141-08 L15RLY/P looked easy enough to deal with too:
The Sonics Anima:
Why measure a driver when SEAS have already done it for you? 😀
A single notch deals with the resonance. I have seen far worse than that one.
THAT needs far more thought.
SpeakerBuilding.com - Interview with Joachim Gerhard of Audio Physic, Page 1
Joachim Gerhard spotted that the Prestige H1141-08 L15RLY/P looked easy enough to deal with too:
The Sonics Anima:
Why measure a driver when SEAS have already done it for you? 😀
Thanks system7,
I have changed my tweeter choice to match the TRYM. I now have a matched cover as you say Seas have already worked out. My baffle although wider overall than the TRYM will be chamfered very close to the TRYM width. Listening to other opinions or ideas now, however well intended, will only confuse. I will be starting as par Seas TRYM.
I have changed my tweeter choice to match the TRYM. I now have a matched cover as you say Seas have already worked out. My baffle although wider overall than the TRYM will be chamfered very close to the TRYM width. Listening to other opinions or ideas now, however well intended, will only confuse. I will be starting as par Seas TRYM.