Hi Freddi,
Box is 17x21x64 w/ 4.25x15.6 throat and 15x15.6 mouth. Mat'l is18mm Birch ply.
Hornresp says that max one way excursion will be 10mm at 41 Hz and 200 watts, useable from 32 Hz to 90 Hz with 400 watts.
I am thinking about building the box as shown, knowing that I'll have to add bracing. The driver is loaded in thru the mouth, so I hope that I don't have to put bracing there.
Box is 17x21x64 w/ 4.25x15.6 throat and 15x15.6 mouth. Mat'l is18mm Birch ply.
Hornresp says that max one way excursion will be 10mm at 41 Hz and 200 watts, useable from 32 Hz to 90 Hz with 400 watts.
I am thinking about building the box as shown, knowing that I'll have to add bracing. The driver is loaded in thru the mouth, so I hope that I don't have to put bracing there.
Hi Don - not a bad box size for output - sim shows ~101dB @31Hz 1pi @2.83v.
some TH sim using expansion and aspect lilke William's 30Hz example have a 6dB dip that seems hard to remove - what's the best ways to juggle that out? (driver selection?) - someone asked about TH for Beyma 15K200 and I can't get one really smooth
will regular 7 ply birch work ok for some TH?
some TH sim using expansion and aspect lilke William's 30Hz example have a 6dB dip that seems hard to remove - what's the best ways to juggle that out? (driver selection?) - someone asked about TH for Beyma 15K200 and I can't get one really smooth
will regular 7 ply birch work ok for some TH?
Hi Freddi - After using AkAbak and Hornresp to shrink this monster, I determined that this box was the largest I could tolerate.
With a conical tapped horn, you've only got 5 variables (S1, S4, L12, L23, L34) and the driver. S2 & S3 are not variables, as they can be calculated from the others. Now comes the hard part, finding a driver that is close enough to ideal for the 5 variables to tweak the horn into something you would want.
Regular 7 ply birch has voids and tends to delaminate at the edges. With luck, the voids won't be where they can cause problems, but do you really want to depend on luck?
I'm not an expert, this is only my second large cabinet. I found the following website to be very helpful:
http://speakerplans.com/index.php?id=guide
With a conical tapped horn, you've only got 5 variables (S1, S4, L12, L23, L34) and the driver. S2 & S3 are not variables, as they can be calculated from the others. Now comes the hard part, finding a driver that is close enough to ideal for the 5 variables to tweak the horn into something you would want.
Regular 7 ply birch has voids and tends to delaminate at the edges. With luck, the voids won't be where they can cause problems, but do you really want to depend on luck?
I'm not an expert, this is only my second large cabinet. I found the following website to be very helpful:
http://speakerplans.com/index.php?id=guide
HI Don - thanks - -
might it be advantageous in some tapped horn to space the driver and truncate throat area?
Best,
Freddy
might it be advantageous in some tapped horn to space the driver and truncate throat area?
Best,
Freddy
Sabbelbacke said:
Hi Sabbelbacke,
Nothing particularly exciting to report this time - for the sake of completeness the functionality of the Wavefront Simulator tool has been extended to work with tapped horns. Previously the simulator simply defaulted to a point source when a tapped horn design was being considered. The new feature does not have any practical application as far as I can see 🙂.
The latest release of Version 16.20 is Product Number 1620-070719.
Kind regards,
David
hi i had a small querry about horn loaded speakers
I once thought of designing Horn loaded speaker but then i thought how will i open it or repair it or how will i change the driver if it gets broken, or if some wires get loose
speaker will be invisible??
the only solution i think is to load the horn in the rear of the speaker, and keep front end of speaker outside.... But will that work nice ????
Don Snyder - design
i think design is nice, external motor will keep driver cool, BUT wont the front n rear wave cansel each other, i mean there has to be some specific length of horn to invert front wave by 180 degress so that it can be fixed with rear wave ????, i like the design, pls. help i m considering this for my next to next woofer box design 😉
N yes , can ny 1 suggest me a nice s/w to simulate these horn loaded enclosures, untill now i m use to WINISD
I once thought of designing Horn loaded speaker but then i thought how will i open it or repair it or how will i change the driver if it gets broken, or if some wires get loose
speaker will be invisible??
the only solution i think is to load the horn in the rear of the speaker, and keep front end of speaker outside.... But will that work nice ????
Don Snyder - design
i think design is nice, external motor will keep driver cool, BUT wont the front n rear wave cansel each other, i mean there has to be some specific length of horn to invert front wave by 180 degress so that it can be fixed with rear wave ????, i like the design, pls. help i m considering this for my next to next woofer box design 😉
N yes , can ny 1 suggest me a nice s/w to simulate these horn loaded enclosures, untill now i m use to WINISD
Attachments
Tapped horns for dummies
a few questions from someone trying to get their head around the basics of the concept.
What T/S specs make a driver suitable for a tapped horn?
Is there an ideal "slope" for the interior baffle (expansion rate)?
Can a tapped horn be designed for a suitable driver without special software or a degree in mathematics?
Is building a tapped horn without careful design likely to result in disaster?
What effect does the changing the size of the opening have?
Is there any advantage in using multiple smaller (8 inch) drivers?
2 medium (10 inch) drivers? 1 large driver?
Would a more even response be acheived by having 2 different angled baffles and drivers in one cabinet? see the rough sketch, vents out the bottom. Probably feindishly difficult to model.
a few questions from someone trying to get their head around the basics of the concept.
What T/S specs make a driver suitable for a tapped horn?
Is there an ideal "slope" for the interior baffle (expansion rate)?
Can a tapped horn be designed for a suitable driver without special software or a degree in mathematics?
Is building a tapped horn without careful design likely to result in disaster?
What effect does the changing the size of the opening have?
Is there any advantage in using multiple smaller (8 inch) drivers?
2 medium (10 inch) drivers? 1 large driver?
Would a more even response be acheived by having 2 different angled baffles and drivers in one cabinet? see the rough sketch, vents out the bottom. Probably feindishly difficult to model.
Attachments
Re: Tapped horns for dummies
So far, that´s not discovered in full extend. It seems that drivers with a fairly high fs work better, resulting in a smoother frequency response.OzMikeH said:
So far most dedigns use a conical flare function, since it´s most easy to build. Of course, others are possible, too. hornresp and Akabak are capable of doing conical and exponential types. Theoreticaly, Hyperbolic and others should work, too. You can do some tweaking with the frequency response in Akabak and hornresp if you differ flare rate on the first and last segment from flare rate of the main part.
Well, it´s mostly trial and error so far, but hornresp and Akabak are very useful tools to keep it quite simple.
Like al transducer cabinets: Just building some random box and putting some random speaker in it mostly results in garbage, same here.
The more area the hornmouth has, the more seinsitivity you gain.
My guess is that general rules of picking a speaker for a special application apply here, too. Bigger drivers (and ones with heavy cones) have more difficulties moving fast than small ones. Just like when you compare 2x10" with a 15". on the other side - bigger drivres ususaly are build for subwoofer applications where high excursion rates are common. If you find a small driver with the same xmax-capacity as a big one and use as many small ones to add up Sd to the big driver - you can get it to work (assuming that the overall quality of the compared drivers is the same and the resulting TSP are euiqvalent)
You should´t mix two tunings or allignemts in one box, since phase and pressure difference will start interact with each other and mostly cancel each other out.
Hi Amit_112dB,
Tapped Horns are designed so that the front and rear wave sum to boost the output above the 1/4 wave cutoff. Remember, the two sides of the speaker cone are 180 Deg out to begin with, so delaying the front wave by an additional 180 Deg allows them to sum.
I'm no expert on Tapped Horns, but thankfully Danley, McBean and Cowan are! See Danley's white paper and download Hornresp v16 (a freeware simulation of Tapped Horns).
See:
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
http://www.users.bigpond.com/dmcbean/
Tapped Horns are designed so that the front and rear wave sum to boost the output above the 1/4 wave cutoff. Remember, the two sides of the speaker cone are 180 Deg out to begin with, so delaying the front wave by an additional 180 Deg allows them to sum.
I'm no expert on Tapped Horns, but thankfully Danley, McBean and Cowan are! See Danley's white paper and download Hornresp v16 (a freeware simulation of Tapped Horns).
See:
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
http://www.users.bigpond.com/dmcbean/
Thank a lot don
Don
i have downloaded the s/w, will try getting my hands on it tomorrow.
hey, the link you gave is not working, might be because of my office firewall, can you please check 1ce if the link is correct or not?
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
Don
i have downloaded the s/w, will try getting my hands on it tomorrow.
hey, the link you gave is not working, might be because of my office firewall, can you please check 1ce if the link is correct or not?
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
Hi Amit_112dB,
Yep, that's the right URL
Danley's site has been very slow, and PDF's are always slow. Try again later.
Yep, that's the right URL
Danley's site has been very slow, and PDF's are always slow. Try again later.
Last week I built another tapped horn. This time with a Beyma 12LX60.
Its sounds great! Realy powerfull and dynamic!
Here is som hornresp sims:
And a picture of the layout:
And a picture of the horn standing in my corner:
Thats my 5 year old kid standing next to it.
Its sounds great! Realy powerfull and dynamic!
Here is som hornresp sims:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And a picture of the layout:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And a picture of the horn standing in my corner:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thats my 5 year old kid standing next to it.
And the driver in the mouth:
When I play realy loud, pushing something like 50 -80 watts into it, the cone barely moves att all. Maybe a mm or so. Its strange putting my finger on the cone. My walls are flexing something like 5 mm but the driver is barely moving!
The horn is 204,5 cm high, 39,4 cm wide and 53 cm deep.
Thats 80,5 x 15,5 x 20,8 inches. It must weight around 100 kg.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
When I play realy loud, pushing something like 50 -80 watts into it, the cone barely moves att all. Maybe a mm or so. Its strange putting my finger on the cone. My walls are flexing something like 5 mm but the driver is barely moving!
The horn is 204,5 cm high, 39,4 cm wide and 53 cm deep.
Thats 80,5 x 15,5 x 20,8 inches. It must weight around 100 kg.
Hi Circlomanen,
Good Job!!!
Is that 25mm MDF? Are you adding any bracing? What hi-pass and lo-pass are you using?
Keep up the good work,
~Don
Good Job!!!
Is that 25mm MDF? Are you adding any bracing? What hi-pass and lo-pass are you using?
Keep up the good work,
~Don
way cool Circlomanen ! - in USA, Beyma carry relatively high price - some B&C might work
what's the size of this TH and its mouth opening aspect? - is mouth ~square?
(I like Karlson as their cone excursion is low)
B&C 12 TBX100 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 42 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.1 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .27
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.9
Total Q (Qts) .26
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 37.5 Liters/1.3cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 9.0mm
Reference Efficiency 1.15%
BL Factor 25.5 T-M
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.0823m2
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.6mH
*************
12 PS100 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 44 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.3 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .29
Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.9
Total Q (Qts) .27
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 47 Liters/1.6cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 8.0mm
Reference Efficiency 1.3%
BL Factor 22.5 T-M
Coil Inductance (Le) 2.0mH
***********************************
12 TBX32 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 40 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.3 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .20
Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.11
Total Q (Qts) .19
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 66.2 Liters/2.34cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 10.0mm
Reference Efficiency 2.11%
BL Factor 25.7 T-M
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.055m2
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.72mH
what's the size of this TH and its mouth opening aspect? - is mouth ~square?
(I like Karlson as their cone excursion is low)
B&C 12 TBX100 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 42 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.1 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .27
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.9
Total Q (Qts) .26
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 37.5 Liters/1.3cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 9.0mm
Reference Efficiency 1.15%
BL Factor 25.5 T-M
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.0823m2
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.6mH
*************
12 PS100 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 44 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.3 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .29
Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.9
Total Q (Qts) .27
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 47 Liters/1.6cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 8.0mm
Reference Efficiency 1.3%
BL Factor 22.5 T-M
Coil Inductance (Le) 2.0mH
***********************************
12 TBX32 - 12" HIGH POWER WOOFER
Resonant Frequency (fs) 40 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.3 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .20
Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.11
Total Q (Qts) .19
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 66.2 Liters/2.34cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 10.0mm
Reference Efficiency 2.11%
BL Factor 25.7 T-M
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.055m2
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.72mH
Code:
Good Job!!!Good Job!!!
Is that 25mm MDF? Are you adding any bracing? What hi-pass and lo-pass are you using?
Thats 22 mm MDF. I have one brace. From just above he mouth. You can see the screws on the picture with my kid. Thats were i think its needed the most. Stabilizing the baffel and the big front/mouth.
No Highpass at all. Just a 18dB lowpass at 100 Hz. Thats a bit to high. Im going to build a bandpass XO with 24dB slopes at 25 Hz and 80 Hz soon.
It sound VERY clean and powerfull. That scen where Darla tapps with her finger on the glass-tank in Finding Nemo is realy impressing. I have heard it before on powerfull subs but NOTHING like this! Its just soo clean and well defined.
Thank you!
Johannes.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is a picture of the bracing.