Hi Sabbelbacke,
Thanks for the welcome! Due to other commitments, my posts will probably be few and far between, unfortunately 🙂.
I hope so. That was certainly the intention 🙂.
Keep an eye out for Version 16.00 to be released in the next few days. As a result of my tapped horn investigations I have discovered that I can improve the Combined Response tool, which should help with back-loaded horn and vented-box enclosure performance predictions.
Kind regards,
David
Thanks for the welcome! Due to other commitments, my posts will probably be few and far between, unfortunately 🙂.
Sabbelbacke said:
I hope so. That was certainly the intention 🙂.
Keep an eye out for Version 16.00 to be released in the next few days. As a result of my tapped horn investigations I have discovered that I can improve the Combined Response tool, which should help with back-loaded horn and vented-box enclosure performance predictions.
Kind regards,
David
Hy David.
Nice to hear about even more improvements in hornresp 🙂 I´ll be checking your download site every minute now 🙂
About mutual coupling: I´m not sure if it´s the right term since I´m not a native speaker. My understanding is, that mutual couping refers to the effect that excursion is lowered in a tapped horn due to the pressure-coupling on the frontside of the driver. AFAIR, Abakak so far didn´t take this into account, so excursion modeled in Akabak should be higher than in reality.
It also was mentioned here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1215426#post1215426
Could you clarify on this?
Thanx for your help !!
Nice to hear about even more improvements in hornresp 🙂 I´ll be checking your download site every minute now 🙂
About mutual coupling: I´m not sure if it´s the right term since I´m not a native speaker. My understanding is, that mutual couping refers to the effect that excursion is lowered in a tapped horn due to the pressure-coupling on the frontside of the driver. AFAIR, Abakak so far didn´t take this into account, so excursion modeled in Akabak should be higher than in reality.
It also was mentioned here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1215426#post1215426
Could you clarify on this?
Thanx for your help !!
Sabbelbacke said:
Hi Sabbelbacke,
The Hornresp tapped horn model takes into account the pressure and volume velocity on each side of the driver diaphragm, and the acoustic path connecting the two sides. The diaphragm displacement is derived on this basis. Hope this helps.
Incidentally, Version 16.00 has now been released.
Kind regards,
David
i just found out about this forum, and im too tired to read through all the prior posts in this thread, but i have done a few projects with tapped horns. The one's i'm using currently are 22 Hz with high excursion subwoofers. Elemental Designs 19Ov.2 actually. I'm sure i'll be back on here in a day or two with pictures and such. I've never been happier with a subwoofer than i am with the tapped horns. I'm actually looking forward to making some 65ish Hz tapped horns with dedicated mid-bass drivers.
Welcome to the forum 🙂 Looking forward in seeing your pics and projects!
Do you already have a driver suggestion for the 65Hz TH?
Do you already have a driver suggestion for the 65Hz TH?
I have been playing with Hornresp and som MDF lately.
I dont like having the magnet protruding out inte the hornpath like in a TH115. So I built a small chamber back of the driver, I hope it doesnt affect the tuning of the horn that much.
I just ran short on MDF so its not finisht yet.
I dont like having the magnet protruding out inte the hornpath like in a TH115. So I built a small chamber back of the driver, I hope it doesnt affect the tuning of the horn that much.
I just ran short on MDF so its not finisht yet.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Nice Banas in the background 🙂
Where do you put the driver in the design? Looks like the driver works on a closed chamber, which would resold in a front loaded horn.
Where do you put the driver in the design? Looks like the driver works on a closed chamber, which would resold in a front loaded horn.
The horn was not complete. Here is a updated picture.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is the horn in Hornresp.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
for my 65 Hz horn, i was considering the 8 inch Dayton RS225-4, though i would like something with a slightly higher Fs and perhaps less mounting depth since I would like to mount these in the doors of my pick-up truck.
here are some pictures of my most recent tapped horn project-
these are my 30 Hz horns with 12" woofers and in front of them are boards for the 22 Hz horns about to be assembled
they had to be assembled in the room because they ar e much bigger than the door frame.
i actually built them on top of the 30 Hz horns, used as workbenches.
i recessed the magnet to keep total depth of the horn smaller. the driver mounted 10 inches (25 cm) deep.
built inside the room with an air compressor below the second floor window.
theyre very big, as i am 6'2" (188 cm) tall and have my feet flat on the bottom.
at first i layed them on their sides, run off of a Behringer EP2500
last weekend, i took them out of the room, probably for the only time until i have my own house, and traveled 300 miles (480 km) to show them off. Everyone was impressed, and we shook overhead doors in a 10,000 square foot (930 sq m) warehouse with high ceilings and steel walls.
i absolutely love them, especially with movies. I have another pair of the same 18 inch drivers, and my intentions are to build another pair of horns for the same room at 37 Hz. The most amazing part about tapped horns that i have found is output versus excursion. I've run these subwoofers at their rated power and almost never reach 1/4 of their peak excursion. William Cowan actually modelled the driver for me, and helped me pick out 22 Hz for the first set.
here are some pictures of my most recent tapped horn project-
these are my 30 Hz horns with 12" woofers and in front of them are boards for the 22 Hz horns about to be assembled
they had to be assembled in the room because they ar e much bigger than the door frame.
i actually built them on top of the 30 Hz horns, used as workbenches.
i recessed the magnet to keep total depth of the horn smaller. the driver mounted 10 inches (25 cm) deep.
built inside the room with an air compressor below the second floor window.
theyre very big, as i am 6'2" (188 cm) tall and have my feet flat on the bottom.
at first i layed them on their sides, run off of a Behringer EP2500
last weekend, i took them out of the room, probably for the only time until i have my own house, and traveled 300 miles (480 km) to show them off. Everyone was impressed, and we shook overhead doors in a 10,000 square foot (930 sq m) warehouse with high ceilings and steel walls.
i absolutely love them, especially with movies. I have another pair of the same 18 inch drivers, and my intentions are to build another pair of horns for the same room at 37 Hz. The most amazing part about tapped horns that i have found is output versus excursion. I've run these subwoofers at their rated power and almost never reach 1/4 of their peak excursion. William Cowan actually modelled the driver for me, and helped me pick out 22 Hz for the first set.
Why didn't you reverse mouth the driver, so that the magnet can be seen from the front. This way the extra box for the magnet on the rearside would not be needed.
Best regards,
Walt
Best regards,
Walt
primarily for cosmetics, but also to keep down any disturbance caused by the magnet and frame at the mouth. i assumed inverse mounting would lessen the clean sound these horns tend to have.
mutual coupling
Hello sabbelbacke,
A couple days ago i placed a post (other forum) about how mutual coupling is intergrated in the tapped horn system.
Tom danley explained it very wel, and like David explained it;
pressure and volume velocity are modelled on both sides of the driver (i.e.; sharing the same cavity).
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=hug&n=122797&highlight=tomservo+tapped+horn&r=&session=
Hornrespons does do i very good job in modeling a tapped horn. What would be nice if you only need to change one parameter to see what happens with the system.
It would be easier to find some kind of optimum configuration if you only need to change the lenght where the Tap comes in.
So designing a horn for the front side of the driver (with its parameters; T, lenght, mouth etc..) and fill in the lenght where the Tap comes in. In the programm the lenght would be directly coupled to the acoustic load which is placed on the backside of the driver.
That acoustic load consist of; some kind of front volume (which is hard to define what it`s value really is off THAT point in the horn),
the hornpath to the closed end AND the hornpath to the mouth.
Cheers,
Marcel
Hello sabbelbacke,
A couple days ago i placed a post (other forum) about how mutual coupling is intergrated in the tapped horn system.
Tom danley explained it very wel, and like David explained it;
pressure and volume velocity are modelled on both sides of the driver (i.e.; sharing the same cavity).
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=hug&n=122797&highlight=tomservo+tapped+horn&r=&session=
Hornrespons does do i very good job in modeling a tapped horn. What would be nice if you only need to change one parameter to see what happens with the system.
It would be easier to find some kind of optimum configuration if you only need to change the lenght where the Tap comes in.
So designing a horn for the front side of the driver (with its parameters; T, lenght, mouth etc..) and fill in the lenght where the Tap comes in. In the programm the lenght would be directly coupled to the acoustic load which is placed on the backside of the driver.
That acoustic load consist of; some kind of front volume (which is hard to define what it`s value really is off THAT point in the horn),
the hornpath to the closed end AND the hornpath to the mouth.
Cheers,
Marcel
Hey Marcel,
I already was aware how the physics behind the TH work (not claiming to be able to do the math, though 🙂 ). I only was wondering, if Akabak and hornresp deal with mutual coupling, since you pointed it out here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1215426#post1215426 That Akabak does not take it into account.
David already explained, that hornresp models the excursion of a TH correctly, so I´m satisfied 🙂 So far, most of the models look the same in Akabak, so in contrary to your assumption, Akabak seems to implement mutual coupling.
Did you investigate the feedback approach in Akabak any further?
Cheers Sabbelbacke
I already was aware how the physics behind the TH work (not claiming to be able to do the math, though 🙂 ). I only was wondering, if Akabak and hornresp deal with mutual coupling, since you pointed it out here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1215426#post1215426 That Akabak does not take it into account.
David already explained, that hornresp models the excursion of a TH correctly, so I´m satisfied 🙂 So far, most of the models look the same in Akabak, so in contrary to your assumption, Akabak seems to implement mutual coupling.
Did you investigate the feedback approach in Akabak any further?
Cheers Sabbelbacke
Hai,
Like TD mentioned in his reply, mutual coupling is only a issue
when radiation takes place in free space ("the outside") and not when drivers are radiating in the same cavity like a tapped horn.
An example where mutual coupling is taken into account is in a vented box system between the direct radiator and the vent. It alters somewhat of the bahavior of the system.
When i read TD`s reply i dropped the mutual coupling issue.
The only thing what bothers me is that you can`t find out what the real acoustic load is seen by the driver AT the Tap.
Do you know howmuch frontvolume, horn and throat area the backside of the driver sees when connect it along a hornwall? I can`t.
Cheers,
Marcel
Like TD mentioned in his reply, mutual coupling is only a issue
when radiation takes place in free space ("the outside") and not when drivers are radiating in the same cavity like a tapped horn.
An example where mutual coupling is taken into account is in a vented box system between the direct radiator and the vent. It alters somewhat of the bahavior of the system.
When i read TD`s reply i dropped the mutual coupling issue.
The only thing what bothers me is that you can`t find out what the real acoustic load is seen by the driver AT the Tap.
Do you know howmuch frontvolume, horn and throat area the backside of the driver sees when connect it along a hornwall? I can`t.
Cheers,
Marcel
Re: mutual coupling
Hi Marcel,
As I understand it, you would like to be able to specify a closed-throat conical or exponential horn, nominate the distance separating the two tap points, and then adjust the distance from the horn mouth to the closest tap point without the flare profiles of the three sections changing as a result of the tap points being moved.
I will have a look and see what I can do. It may take a week or so to come up with something. I will let you know how I get on.
Thanks for the suggestion 🙂.
Kind regards,
David
Marcello said:
Hi Marcel,
As I understand it, you would like to be able to specify a closed-throat conical or exponential horn, nominate the distance separating the two tap points, and then adjust the distance from the horn mouth to the closest tap point without the flare profiles of the three sections changing as a result of the tap points being moved.
I will have a look and see what I can do. It may take a week or so to come up with something. I will let you know how I get on.
Thanks for the suggestion 🙂.
Kind regards,
David
Hello David,
My idea was slightly different.
Simply designing a front loaded horn (assuming that in the tapped horn the driver is at the closed end) and just filling in the lenght from the closed end to the Tap (backside) in the horn.
When the lenght is filled in the system all the other assumptions
(throat area at Tap, frontvolume, hornpath to mouth and closed end) would be calculated from that point.
You could also give this lenght a equivalent frequentie (1/2 wavelenght) where the front- and backside are driving the horn fully in phase.
Leaving the horn where it is and just playing with the lenght could be very usefull to see the system response could be very usefull.
By the way: thanks for answering the question on the AA-board
about compression ratio.
Cheers,
Marcel
My idea was slightly different.
Simply designing a front loaded horn (assuming that in the tapped horn the driver is at the closed end) and just filling in the lenght from the closed end to the Tap (backside) in the horn.
When the lenght is filled in the system all the other assumptions
(throat area at Tap, frontvolume, hornpath to mouth and closed end) would be calculated from that point.
You could also give this lenght a equivalent frequentie (1/2 wavelenght) where the front- and backside are driving the horn fully in phase.
Leaving the horn where it is and just playing with the lenght could be very usefull to see the system response could be very usefull.
By the way: thanks for answering the question on the AA-board
about compression ratio.
Cheers,
Marcel
Marcello said:
Hi Marcel,
Thanks for the clarification. I think I've got it right now 🙂. For a horn of fixed length, you would like to be able to change the length of the acoustic path between the two sides of the driver diaphragm (length L23 in the Hornresp tapped horn model), without altering the location of the throat side of the diaphragm relative to the closed throat, and without altering the flare rate of the horn? Length L34 to be automatically recalculated as necessary.
As far as answering the compression ratio question is concerned - no problems 🙂.
Kind regards,
David
Re: mutual coupling
Hi Marcel,
Just letting you know that a ‘Tapped Horn Wizard’ tool has now been added to Hornresp. The tool enables the tap position to be adjusted without altering the overall horn length or flare.
Kind regards,
David
Marcello said:
Hi Marcel,
Just letting you know that a ‘Tapped Horn Wizard’ tool has now been added to Hornresp. The tool enables the tap position to be adjusted without altering the overall horn length or flare.
Kind regards,
David