I had a ghost in the machine, once. It packed a big sting. But maybe it was just a spirit in the material world, I dunno.
Made sense to me, but I cannot PROVE what they say.
Not your job to prove their claims, that's their job. Your job, if you were an honest practitioner, is to prove YOUR claims.
And what CLAIMS do I have to PROVE SY? That I find that SN62 solder is really, really good sounding, even if it is not the most expensive? However, I do strongly recommend mechanical cleaning the wires or contacts in advance, if possible, if they are not gold plated. Must I PROVE THIS?
Blanks for telescope mirrors are annealed for years before grinding, for good reasons. Why use the term "break-in" which ends up being simply applied mindlessly to everything in audio?
I prefer the term "Beechwood aged".
Scott when you say "annealed" does that mean a series of heating and cooling cycles, or just storage at some (room?) temperature? I have never ground a mirror and have no knowledge of the materials.
Break-in is a subjective experience and it cannot be PROVEN, by usual measurements or double blind tests.
But John, surely if break-in makes an audible difference, then it can be detected in unsighted listening and measured (by which I mean "detected by measuring instruments", not necessarily a quantitative measure).
I prefer the term "Beechwood aged".
Scott when you say "annealed" does that mean a series of heating and cooling cycles, or just storage at some (room?) temperature? I have never ground a mirror and have no knowledge of the materials.
IIRC there is a long slow cool down period with controlled temperature all the way down for the best blanks, this was to eliminate any trapped strain. Corning's decision to stop making Pyrex caused a temporary run on blanks in the amateur astronomy community, not unlike Toshiba JFET's. Someone finally got all the IP and started in again, or so I heard.
There are some interesting studies around showing how Pyrex acts like a liquid at room temperatures at very microscopic levels.
EDIT - labor of love
After cooling several months, the finished mirror blank was transported by rail to Pasadena, California.[13][14] Once in Pasadena the mirror was transferred from the rail flat car to a specially designed semi-trailer for road transport to where it would be polished.[15] In the optical shop in Pasadena (now the Synchrotron building at Caltech) standard telescope mirror making techniques were used to turn the flat blank into a precise concave parabolic shape, although they had to be executed on a grand scale. A special 240-inch 25,000 lb mirror cell jig was constructed which could employ five different motions when the mirror was ground and polished.[16] Over 13 years almost 10,000 pounds of glass was ground and polished away reducing the weight of the mirror to 14.5 tons.
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No, individual changes at this level are usually lost in extensive testing.
By lost I assume you also are affected, that is you can no longer hear them either.
No, individual changes at this level are usually lost in extensive testing.
When you say "lost" do you mean "not audible"?
The differences are not necessarily gone, just covered over by the test procedure. Of course, it is a matter of opinion that there are real differences in audio equipment, or whether it is actually interchangable. I believe in the sonic differences being there, and in being able to intelligently discuss with others who hear the same differences.
The differences are not necessarily gone, just covered over by the test procedure.
How can that happen? Do the test procedures somehow 'modify' your hearing?
Of course, it is a matter of opinion that there are real differences in audio equipment.
That where I fully and completely disagree. If it's 'opinion' then my 'opinion' that there's no difference has the same value as your 'opinion' that there is one.
But that's not what I want. I want to know if there is or is not a difference, for real, not someone's 'opinion', whoever he is - recalling that people's perceptions are totally unreliable, gullible, prejudiced and easily influenced. Mine, yours, anybodies.
Jan
The differences are not necessarily gone, just covered over by the test procedure.
bollocks. Either there is a discernible difference or their isn't. A test procedure can be designed to be unobtrusive such that it is controlled for in the process.
Of course, this may well not be the case in the situation of Bybees where the quantum nature of the mechanism gives rise to the Schroedinger's Cat effect.
Or we could agree that we listen in the real world, not in a quantum one.
Well, we do. You may be different. Depending on fee.
I believe in the sonic differences being there, and in being able to intelligently discuss with others who hear the same differences.
So, which is it - intelligent Ie displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment, or religious ie limited to the True Believers - those who "hear the same differences"?
In my more than 50 years in learning everything that I could about hi fi reproduction, certain repetitive results have occurred that allow me to trust my ears, and often those of my associates when it comes to making the best hi fi quality possible.
I am rarely in charge of an entire project such as a master tape recorder or a preamp, but when I am, I always come out on top. It is like winning races. After awhile you just have to believe that you are more successful than most of your competition. However, this has never come from compromise, but all out assault on the project. It may be possible that I overbuild my designs and the strict cleaning procedures that I demand are not really necessary, but I have never made a truly world class component without this dedication to perfection. I may not make any real profit on my effort, but I do get the reward of customer feedback that is over the top, in some cases. It shows that my efforts were worth the trouble.
I am rarely in charge of an entire project such as a master tape recorder or a preamp, but when I am, I always come out on top. It is like winning races. After awhile you just have to believe that you are more successful than most of your competition. However, this has never come from compromise, but all out assault on the project. It may be possible that I overbuild my designs and the strict cleaning procedures that I demand are not really necessary, but I have never made a truly world class component without this dedication to perfection. I may not make any real profit on my effort, but I do get the reward of customer feedback that is over the top, in some cases. It shows that my efforts were worth the trouble.
I believe in the sonic differences being there, and in being able to intelligently discuss with others who hear the same differences.
This I presume is without those dam objectives muttering about testing regimes such as DBT or anything that will expose the fact that some changes are perceived due to other factors such as exception bias... Been reading some other forums where DBT can not be mentioned, its all opinion with no back up, but at least the participants aren't subjected to a reality check.
How can that happen? Do the test procedures somehow 'modify' your hearing?
That where I fully and completely disagree. If it's 'opinion' then my 'opinion' that there's no difference has the same value as your 'opinion' that there is one.
But that's not what I want. I want to know if there is or is not a difference, for real, not someone's 'opinion', whoever he is - recalling that people's perceptions are totally unreliable, gullible, prejudiced and easily influenced. Mine, yours, anybodies.
Jan
Yes there are measurable issues to break in. For example the power supply electrolytic capacitors sitting on a shelf do lose capacitance. Film capacitors particularly "Mylar" do drop in distortion after a bit of use. Resistor distortion drops a bit after 100 hours of use at 1/4 rated power. I have no idea if semiconductors change from tempering but tubes certainly age.
Then there are some other break in issues that are not picked up with even complex distortion mechanisms. I am trying to finish up my power supply article then I will do one on how to measure issues that are ignored by the hammer only crowd.
ES
Now how does this relate to the O.P. bit of humor about his CC decline?
I can tell you with certainty that the Bybee Music Rail had a most perverse and disturbing effect upon music reproduction of any device inserted into a power supply rail.
I It may be possible that I overbuild my designs and the strict cleaning procedures that I demand are not really necessary, but I have never made a truly world class component without this dedication to perfection.
And subjective reviewers want to hear about that and it does affect their judgement. Sounds like first class marketing to me and has certainly worked for you as the awards show 🙂
And subjective reviewers want to hear about that and it does affect their judgement. Sounds like first class marketing to me and has certainly worked for you as the awards show 🙂
That end of the niche market is all about spinning the story.
Yes there are measurable issues to break in. For example the power supply electrolytic capacitors sitting on a shelf do lose capacitance. Film capacitors particularly "Mylar" do drop in distortion after a bit of use. Resistor distortion drops a bit after 100 hours of use at 1/4 rated power. I have no idea if semiconductors change from tempering but tubes certainly age.
Then there are some other break in issues that are not picked up with even complex distortion mechanisms. I am trying to finish up my power supply article then I will do one on how to measure issues that are ignored by the hammer only crowd.
ES
Now how does this relate to the O.P. bit of humor about his CC decline?
Regarding the resistors I presume this is easily measurable, just curious why it isn't documented outside of audio, as I have noticed resistors used in sensitive analogue designs outside of audio and never heard any one say run the system for a 100 hours to get the resistors distortion levels to stabilise🙂
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