Not that one, but one with a larger horn that provides good support down to lower frequencies with similar technique would be able to do the job i.m.h.o.Subtweeter's speaker are nice, but why should they sound bigger than Noam's current speakers?
Noam, I think you can easily reproduce the the intesity of brass playing in a live venue: have 8 high SPL speakers and a large room, play them in a large room loud. I fear what you desire will not be reproduced in small rooms.
It's easier to fake a large room in a small space than the other way around. But one has to wonder/decide if you want that kind of SPL level or the sensation it gives.
More direct sound vs indirect will get you half way there, with a very dynamic speaker, but you'd still have to fake the space. You'd need lots of treatment though.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...he-last-twenty-years.8021/page-16#post-197385
That sort of thing... Enveloping is not a quality available in a small acoustic space, but one could either use multichannel upmixing or use IR reverb from real spaces or other reverb tools to mimic this behavior. Kill (absorb) all first reflections first. Read lots of material from David Griesinger to get an idea how it works. (scroll down that page for lots of papers on this subject)
You could start with the current speakers, add room treatment and ambience channels and experiment. Treat the room + speakers as a system. That's where the MEH type of speaker comes in handy.
Floyd Toole said:...
For me, much of the sensation of "dynamics" is delivered by very low frequencies. So I have a seriously capable multiple subwoofer system. Take that away, or tone it down, and things revert to much "smaller" and "ordinary" right away. Reproduction to 20 Hz or below is impressive even if it is not shaking your body, which is is also capable of doing, most often in movies. Many modern music recordings have "organ pedal" frequencies in them, and it is seductive. One wonders if they were heard in the control rooms.
Another factor is directivity and the extent to which the room is energized. Here is where horns often distinguish themselves by putting the listener in a more dominant direct sound field - it is why they are used in professional audio - to address an audience with minimal excitation of the venue. Although at domestic sound levels horns and compression drivers exhibit low distortion, in their professional roles air non-linearity in the throat can generate audible distortion at high sound levels. They found their way into consumer products because of their high efficiency at a time when amplifier power was seriously rationed. That is no longer an issue. I go to live symphonic concerts about a dozen times a year, and it is a very different experience from any stereo rendering of the same music. The real thing is huge, enveloping and crescendos are, to me, "dynamic" even when the sound levels are lower than I can generate at home. The dominant frontal sound of stereo can't do it and turning up the volume doesn't help. A tasteful multichannel upmix is a more satisfying experience, even at moderate sound levels.
...
That sort of thing... Enveloping is not a quality available in a small acoustic space, but one could either use multichannel upmixing or use IR reverb from real spaces or other reverb tools to mimic this behavior. Kill (absorb) all first reflections first. Read lots of material from David Griesinger to get an idea how it works. (scroll down that page for lots of papers on this subject)
You could start with the current speakers, add room treatment and ambience channels and experiment. Treat the room + speakers as a system. That's where the MEH type of speaker comes in handy.
Active modular speakers seem the more practical approach for venues?There could be room for a whole family of TheLoudspeakers.
On a tangential note, are there any kissa-type venues in Hamburg/Berlin/Germany?
thanks, I’ll check the work of David.https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...he-last-twenty-years.8021/page-16#post-197385
That sort of thing... Enveloping is not a quality available in a small acoustic space, but one could either use multichannel upmixing or use IR reverb from real spaces or other reverb tools to mimic this behavior. Kill (absorb) all first reflections first. Read lots of material from David Griesinger to get an idea how it works. (scroll down that page for lots of papers on this subject)
Funny that I never stumbled on the MEH technique before, google doesn’t really provide information about it either.
on a second note, I listened to the TL2 yesterday with the impressions of the concert still relatively fresh in my mind and boy, those speaker deliver on dynamic! I am complaining on a very high Niveau
I always wanted to visit Hamburg and especially visit the Steinway factory. I would have applied for a job on the spot!I think there are some more options for large, private run acoustic venues. Like the warehouse, which historically was host for the non-HiFi sound systems since the invention of the night club. In the city I live in (Hamburg, DE) many of such structures exist, used in various roles, of which some can be adopted to dual use. If you find the right combination, rent should be manageable. There could be room for a whole family of TheLoudspeakers. 😀
Talking about big places reminds me of the time me and my wife searched for a new house and stumbled on a villa near Freiburg. It was for sale for around 1,8M (way way above our budget) but we couldn’t resist and visited. On entering I knew it’s a lost case, the place was huge! With 380sqm! the best was a single room, 70sqm with beautiful curved high ceiling (highest point 5m). It was an indoor swimming pool… I would have build a subwoofer of that pool and make the ultimate listening hall… a dream indeed🙂
We have a jazz house in Freibur, not sure about kissa typeActive modular speakers seem the more practical approach for venues?
On a tangential note, are there any kissa-type venues in Hamburg/Berlin/Germany?
Maybe Yamaha GF-1, fully active is really nice for dynamicsSo, bass I guess is the (easier?) Problem, the intensity of the horns is probably impossible to reproduce
But thats also music problem, no one really makes a mix that could achieve full realism
BTW, look what a friend just found sitting there in a tattoo shop in Japan, how cool is that!
Since the hype around listening bars happened—Resident Advisor for example created a mini series of videos, available from youtube—there spawned some audio-centered music bars in my city. But despite using large horn speaker systems, it's still much more related to classical DJ-ing and not comparable to the Japanese audio culture—sadly so. On top, I question the quality of their system. In short, nothing comparable that I know of, no.On a tangential note, are there any kissa-type venues in Hamburg/Berlin/Germany?
Working on a carousel for shoes and jackets.... just looks like the set of horns I'm searching for
I visited one in Berlin today. People were talking loudly over the music and I was relegated to some bar stools near the entrance well outside the direct radiation area of the A7s. I visited alone, tables were only assigned to groups. So it was indeed a waste of time.Since the hype around listening bars happened—Resident Advisor for example created a mini series of videos, available from youtube—there spawned some audio-centered music bars in my city. But despite using large horn speaker systems, it's still much more related to classical DJ-ing and not comparable to the Japanese audio culture—sadly so. On top, I question the quality of their system. In short, nothing comparable that I know of, no.
Those are the speakers that I have, connected to my home theater rig. Although my Arcam has eight channels, I only use two. It is more than enough. Although, I do fantasize about adding some other speakers for surround sound. The SOT A7s throw a very nice enveloping sound field all by themselves.BTW, look what a friend just found sitting there in a tattoo shop in Japan, how cool is that!View attachment 1158782View attachment 1158781
At one time, I did have the horns mounted to the top. I took the time to be sure that I time aligned the drivers. My wife did not appreciate the Frankenstein look. They are currently flipped with the horn inside the air hole.
What is nice, is that I have them connected by an inter-connect to my main system. When I upgrade my main system, the sound of the theaters also benefit from that upgrade.
Inside, they are all original, including the quarter inch phono jacks.
One of these days I would like to rebuild the cross over, although I have no idea of how to do that.
Could you imagine if I connected the SOT A7 and the TL2 in the same room? Ha, ha, ha ha ha ha ha. (evil laugh.)
Because both systems are connected, I can play the same music on both systems at the same time. When no one is at home, I turn up the SOT in the other room, on the same floor, to energize the whole house, and it works kind of like a subwoofer to my main system.😎
Damn mate! Altec and TL2?? would be awesome if you could give us a comparison when your done 👍
Meanwhile I was being absolutely obsessed with this new loudspeaker form that stuck in my head since the Mahler concert.
I've been working a bit more on it... Looks promising I think.
Would it work?
Looks a lot like the those guys- One of best of show in munich- Forgot the name
Meanwhile I was being absolutely obsessed with this new loudspeaker form that stuck in my head since the Mahler concert.
I've been working a bit more on it... Looks promising I think.
Would it work?
Looks a lot like the those guys- One of best of show in munich- Forgot the name
Attachments
Those were Tune Audio Epitomes. Your shape also reminds me of a rotated Viva Audio Nuda. The horizontal dispersion would be awfully narrow.
Last edited:
Maximax77 thanks, I haven’t seen the viva audio Nuba until you mentioned it. I guess this is how they solved the horizontal dispersion. Clever.
Ill try to spend more time listening to them at the upcoming Munich, maybe I could squeeze some information about them.
Ill try to spend more time listening to them at the upcoming Munich, maybe I could squeeze some information about them.
A narrow angled dimension like the horizontal above will only be narrow at higher frequencies. The mouth is a smaller size in the width so it will lose control and go wide at some middle frequency, overtaking the vertical.
BTW, how do you think Tune audio go around this problem of narrow dispersion?Those were Tune Audio Epitomes. Your shape also reminds me of a rotated Viva Audio Nuda. The horizontal dispersion would be awfully narrow.
Thank you Allen B for your input. It seems I cannot quote the last message I get, heres how it's looks on my smartphone, any idea how to fix it?

Not being able to quote the last post is a feature to prevent needless duplication in a thread, but yes, sometimes we need to quote a specific part of the previous thread and if you select any text, you should see a quote option...
So, more fun project is ready .... new (better?) Plinth for my denon dp1800.
The idea was to completely decoupling the arm from the noisy motor... so I used memory foam and some alternating materials to lower (in theory) vibration.
The mdf is covered with epoxidharz (resin)
And I alternated mdf with so called HPL vollkern plates.
The idea was to completely decoupling the arm from the noisy motor... so I used memory foam and some alternating materials to lower (in theory) vibration.
The mdf is covered with epoxidharz (resin)
And I alternated mdf with so called HPL vollkern plates.
Attachments
Attachments
- Home
- Loudspeakers
- Multi-Way
- Building process - The loudspeaker 1