Story time>
I think at 2018 I was (again) at the HighEnd Munich sister show at the mariott hotel.
I sat in a room alone with the mighty Magico m6 (flagship at the time-220,000USD) surrounded by tec.... I think Total DAC. I sat there struggling to stay, not really understanding why I am so bored, people went and go (fast)... eventually I gave up as well, frustrated.
The next room was packed with people so I went inside sat down and gogled at disbelief, felt like Im hearing real music. The problem was that my mind couldn't accept the fact that in front of me where two Audionotes? or urangutangs? shoved all the way in the corners of the room with their paper Membrane, running by tubes. My Hi-Fi views were broken and I understood that I don't understand nothing.
since then my favorites at shows where very often high Efficiency, paper membrane and tubes.
Lucky me Troels Gravesen tried his talent on the same philosophy.
Stenheim-PA drivers in stiff Alu enclosure
this Vox olimpian needs no intreduction
The Lorenzo labs... awsome speaker and seems to be very similar to the TL2
Kawero Kaiser acoustics using audio tocology and mundorf super tweeter, not PA nor high efficiency but has beautiful sound
Referring to the pics of the 'TLS' cabinets.
WOW.
I mean, what other words can be uttered that have any more meaning.....
I also have a love for high sensitivity paper cones.
WOW.
I mean, what other words can be uttered that have any more meaning.....
I also have a love for high sensitivity paper cones.
So, the nice visitors have left and it's time to write about our impressions of the
TL2 VS FAITAL 3WC-10 bothe designed by Troels Gravesen.
Equipment used:
-Line Magnetic LM216A 38watt tube integrated amp
-BEL CANTO DAC2.5
-Bluesound node streamer
We where a group of four and spent 4 hours of listening. I am writing as a group since we all concluded basically the same.
We started with the TL2- The Loudspeaker II
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker-2.htm
This speaker made music GRAND effortlessly.
Nothing seems to really put him out of his pace, dramatic dynamics swings, intense or intimate on demand and completely free of strain and stress across the spectrum.
The Horn+10inch kombo made drums and trumpets a blast, fast fast loudspeaker.
Voices were a treat as well, giving a beautiful very realistic timber, especially by man vocals.
Woman voices sopran seems to be especially free of strain, especially at high notes, no ringing, no distortion, air and freedom.
The conclusion
The most holographic, electrostatic like, life like speaker I had, and must be one of the best I've heard.
FAITAL 3WC-10 (Berillium ver.) http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-10.htm
Well, a very different animal from the TL2. The Faital was giving a good fight after the TL2 were unconnected.
The Faital excel in gorgeus midrange and fantastic snappy dynamic range. Very very detailed sound and true of timber.
Voices were a treat!!!
Where it felt short of the TL2 was at ease of presentation, scale obviously and the top and bottom felt in comparison restraind, cut off.
Nevertheless, I would probably be very very happy with the Faital , especially since it costs a fourth of a level one TL2.
After listening to the Faital we switched back to the TL2 and the sense of atmosphere and presence where back in the room. Size matters after all.
Disadvantages of TL2: I think that the BMS 18inch felt a bit loose and would probably profit from more power, maybe I'll bi-amp them, maybe not.
All in all a very enjoyable and insightful for us four.
Ps. 4 hours of listening is loooooong (for me) yet we agreed that there was absolutely no fatigue, a virtuous of both the TL2 and the Faital.
TL2 VS FAITAL 3WC-10 bothe designed by Troels Gravesen.
Equipment used:
-Line Magnetic LM216A 38watt tube integrated amp
-BEL CANTO DAC2.5
-Bluesound node streamer
We where a group of four and spent 4 hours of listening. I am writing as a group since we all concluded basically the same.
We started with the TL2- The Loudspeaker II
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker-2.htm
This speaker made music GRAND effortlessly.
Nothing seems to really put him out of his pace, dramatic dynamics swings, intense or intimate on demand and completely free of strain and stress across the spectrum.
The Horn+10inch kombo made drums and trumpets a blast, fast fast loudspeaker.
Voices were a treat as well, giving a beautiful very realistic timber, especially by man vocals.
Woman voices sopran seems to be especially free of strain, especially at high notes, no ringing, no distortion, air and freedom.
The conclusion
The most holographic, electrostatic like, life like speaker I had, and must be one of the best I've heard.
FAITAL 3WC-10 (Berillium ver.) http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-10.htm
Well, a very different animal from the TL2. The Faital was giving a good fight after the TL2 were unconnected.
The Faital excel in gorgeus midrange and fantastic snappy dynamic range. Very very detailed sound and true of timber.
Voices were a treat!!!
Where it felt short of the TL2 was at ease of presentation, scale obviously and the top and bottom felt in comparison restraind, cut off.
Nevertheless, I would probably be very very happy with the Faital , especially since it costs a fourth of a level one TL2.
After listening to the Faital we switched back to the TL2 and the sense of atmosphere and presence where back in the room. Size matters after all.
Disadvantages of TL2: I think that the BMS 18inch felt a bit loose and would probably profit from more power, maybe I'll bi-amp them, maybe not.
All in all a very enjoyable and insightful for us four.
Ps. 4 hours of listening is loooooong (for me) yet we agreed that there was absolutely no fatigue, a virtuous of both the TL2 and the Faital.
Now I want to know what happens when you pair the 3WC10's with the 18" woofers acting as subs. I can't get enough of this comparison.
https://www.hypex.nl/product/fusionamp-fa502/159
I use one bridged of these amps per 18" and I can play until the amps go to protect. At that moment the sound level is quite high😉
But honestly the 18"s have more to give. To weak amps.
Whats interesting is that the bass for sure benefits from more power as you mantioned. At normal listening levels the bass is far from "loose", they are rock solid, the mid bass they produce is the best I have heard.
Something to look into is how the impedance of the tube amp works with the woofers in their alignment. It is quite common for tube amps to have impedance variations that result in the bass being not quite what it was intended to be. This might not be a factor but your listening impression suggests that it could. Troels likes using the Hypex plate amps on the bottom for good reason.
BTW really nice job on the design. Maybe I missed it earlier but how are the two halves of the cabinet connected together?
I still have two Hypex modules sitting somewhere in a box... we moved a house recently so it's going to be a long search. I will definitely try it out!
Yep, although, I used to bi-amped my next4 and it felt a bit disconnected, maybe it's just psychological, I will give it a try.
Thanks a lot for the kind words 🙏
The top cabinet has 3 height adjustable spikes. Actually no real use to height adjust the top cabinet, I guess I did it since I tend to complicate things.
In my experience the hardest thing to get right with a bi-amped passive/active is phase. It's one of the essential ingredients in imaging IMO, and there's no guarantee it will work without fine adjustment. That and level matching are my two nightmares.
Finished with the clear coat on both. Time to rest and think about the grill
What about grill color 🤔
What about grill color 🤔
Are those the ones with speaker level input? That should work 👍.
Noam, I think after those photos, half the internet wants to kill you, the other half wants to marry you 
I fear that so few have the skill, dedication, and eye for detail you do.
As for grill colour.
Since the cabinets are super dark grey.
You could match the cabinet colour.
But I think I'd contrast the cabinet colour with black or a medium to dark grey.
I think any other colour choices could look strange.
I fear that so few have the skill, dedication, and eye for detail you do.
As for grill colour.
Since the cabinets are super dark grey.
You could match the cabinet colour.
But I think I'd contrast the cabinet colour with black or a medium to dark grey.
I think any other colour choices could look strange.
Grill colors to consider: pastel pink, mauve, lime green, sky blue, and international orange... 🙂
In this situation those details have been worked out by the designer, so using the same equipment as he did and following the instructions should help to side step those problems.
Heather would break up such a large baffle well, I think. Or another slight pattern.
@fluid For sure, all I mean is you can't just throw an amp on a separate woofer circuit and call it a day. Plus, once you start correcting for the room I'm sure I'm not the only one who collapses down a rabbit hole of minute optimizations, right?
@fluid For sure, all I mean is you can't just throw an amp on a separate woofer circuit and call it a day. Plus, once you start correcting for the room I'm sure I'm not the only one who collapses down a rabbit hole of minute optimizations, right?
In general I completely agree but this speaker was designed to be a hybrid, with the passive crossover coming after to appease the purists 🙂
Sure, I just can't imagine someone who chooses the fully passive version to run with a tube amp is going to want to get into the nitty gritty of room correction, but maybe they do?
IDK, @fluid, the tube community swapping tubes, changing x-over components and washing their incoming power seem to be similar voodoo wizards to the guys who run multi-channel DAC FIR filters to individual amps, just on a different wavelength. Might be easier converts than you think.
Thanks mate! Seems like everything is possible, the only cost is time, lots of time! Ho and good Tools.... very important 😀Noam, I think after those photos, half the internet wants to kill you, the other half wants to marry you
I fear that so few have the skill, dedication, and eye for detail you do.
As for grill colour.
Since the cabinets are super dark grey.
You could match the cabinet colour.
But I think I'd contrast the cabinet colour with black or a medium to dark grey.
I think any other colour choices could look strange.
I think you are right about the grill color, although lime green, lava orange would look so outrageously out of place that it might be even cool. But I think elegant will suit here better.