Yes, it does! I used a pair of 830991 per cab in my EMP build. There is a warmness at around 200Hz to deal with, other than that, filtering is straight forward with no notches. They are really dynamic drivers.
I would use those as a mid in a monkey coffin and be very happy.
I would use those as a mid in a monkey coffin and be very happy.
Hello everyone,
I've been pretty quiet lately for personal reasons, but I'm kind of intrigued by this.
Has anyone considered something like the FaitalPro M5N8-80 as a dedicated midrange driver?
Best regards,
Azrael
I've been pretty quiet lately for personal reasons, but I'm kind of intrigued by this.
Has anyone considered something like the FaitalPro M5N8-80 as a dedicated midrange driver?
Best regards,
Azrael
Both polyprop and glassfiber 5.25 hds are available at rumoh.eu for about 60eu
(Glassfiber out if stock but should be available in few days)
(Glassfiber out if stock but should be available in few days)
By the way, audiocomponents are importator in Europe of several brands. A long time ago I baught theme directly some revelators and vifa tweeters.
I asked them if it was possible to baught theme directly the ne149w like befor or if they have a contact to a shop that would be able to sell us this drivers.
I'm waiting for there answer.
I asked them if it was possible to baught theme directly the ne149w like befor or if they have a contact to a shop that would be able to sell us this drivers.
I'm waiting for there answer.
I have a proposal to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
It will enable everyone to listen to the character of the midranges.
stay tuned…
I'd be shocked if the people contributing to this thread (1) don't realize the importance of the xo or (2) don't accept how difficult a good 3-way is.
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Yes.
Most (all?) of these drivers are pretty popular, so I would think we could decide based on a combination of those factors above. I would not THINK we would really need to do much testing of the drivers in-hand. But...
Yes, I have some of these. NE149W-08, SB15NRX2, SB15MFC, Markaudio CHP-90, NE123W.
If we really thought we needed to test them before deciding, I may be willing to buy the SB12MNRX2 and the FaitalPRO 5FE120.
If the group wants to solidify some clear design goals, I am all for it and I will
However, for this project I'm not sure anyone is being that formal.
My quick take:
The OSMC and the newest thread by Andy:
- Format in a Classic 3-way (Monkey Coffing) speaker
- Very specific and high-performance technical goals
- Pick drivers to achieve the goals in (2). Have a price target in mind, but it is flexible and may creep upwards to achieve (2)
- Format in a Classic 3-way (Monkey Coffing) speaker
- Price target range - this has not been a hard limit, but I think everyone has pretty much settled in on $300-$400, closer to $300 is better if possible
- Pick drivers to build the best sounding speaker possible within the target price range. Speaker quality may creep downwards if necessary to achieve the price target in (2). [Thus the selection of the Peerless SLS 12" rather than SB34NRX]
If we do want to test on a test baffle, I can build one and measure midrange drivers.
If we select a midrange without doing that but feel we need to model tweeters on a test baffle I can do that. I probably have all/most of the tweeters we will consider.
You don't need a mod to do that. You can simply edit the opening post yourself!
I posted links to some vendors that sell Peerless in post #90, and #91 of this thread.
I would be not surprised at all.
Many people at diyAudio have been long time listeners/readers, first time callers/writers, to borrow a phrase from radio.
The classic JBL L100 Century, released in 1970 was of made of 3/4” chipboard, had no bracing, little damping.
Anyone who has built their first speaker could suggest why this is far from optimal, for something as large as this (45L for the woofer alone).
And anyone who has designed their own crossover could take a look at the image below and point out several things about that was no ideal with the original tuning, and how the updated crossover by our friend Troels Gravesen has improved things.
Others, still, may be able to suggest further actions that could facilitate an alternative crossover.
eg. If you have to start from scratch, would you take choose a 5" midrange, and crossover at 5KHz?
The reason I say that this because there are many people who have built half a dozen or dozen or more speakers. But apart from building / designing they are also refining their process and methodology along the way.
@5th element , @capslock , @CharlieLaub ,@DcibeL, @fluid , @hifijim, @Juhazi, @vineethkumar01 , among many others I have forgotten about, can tell you
So although the crossover is critical to get things "just right", but it's often the only thing that can be done after the drivers have been selected.
The most advanced designs would start with the acoustics of the room, the project scope and system requirements, selection of speaker concept, before the cabinet size and shape, even before the driver selection.
We have decided on the classic 3-way shape, for better or for worse and we are trying to polish it.
Many people at diyAudio have been long time listeners/readers, first time callers/writers, to borrow a phrase from radio.
The classic JBL L100 Century, released in 1970 was of made of 3/4” chipboard, had no bracing, little damping.
Anyone who has built their first speaker could suggest why this is far from optimal, for something as large as this (45L for the woofer alone).
And anyone who has designed their own crossover could take a look at the image below and point out several things about that was no ideal with the original tuning, and how the updated crossover by our friend Troels Gravesen has improved things.
Others, still, may be able to suggest further actions that could facilitate an alternative crossover.
eg. If you have to start from scratch, would you take choose a 5" midrange, and crossover at 5KHz?
Reference:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm#Up-Grade_Kits_For_Vintage_Speakers
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm#Up-Grade_Kits_For_Vintage_Speakers
The reason I say that this because there are many people who have built half a dozen or dozen or more speakers. But apart from building / designing they are also refining their process and methodology along the way.
@5th element , @capslock , @CharlieLaub ,@DcibeL, @fluid , @hifijim, @Juhazi, @vineethkumar01 , among many others I have forgotten about, can tell you
- the on-axis is only one part of the sound.
- or that the cabinet shaped in a way “bakes in” how any chosen driver might projection the sound in 3 dimensions.
- controlling the crossover affects only the reference axis- all other axis must follow.
So although the crossover is critical to get things "just right", but it's often the only thing that can be done after the drivers have been selected.
The most advanced designs would start with the acoustics of the room, the project scope and system requirements, selection of speaker concept, before the cabinet size and shape, even before the driver selection.
We have decided on the classic 3-way shape, for better or for worse and we are trying to polish it.
Yes but they have not everything.
Audio components are intermédiate between peerless and soudimport for example (and a lot of europeen resellers)
To put it another way, it changes all at once and you still have to line up competing goals. Therefore...
..I would likely take out drivers in this statement and replace with cabinet acoustic goals and configuration (which really is part of the crossover).
..And even go so far as to say that driver selection isn't necessarily important until you actually need one in your hand (a few details aside), which may be very late in the design process.
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There are many ways to start a speaker build. You can start with performance goals and determine the cabinet and drivers to meet that goal. Or you can start with a cabinet goal and select your drivers to meet that goal. Or you can start with certain drivers and determine the best cabinet to help achieve the best performance. Tradeoffs.
Most of the elements mentioned in the post above were predetermined by post #1 of this project... Our starting point is a Classic 3-way (Monkey Coffin) - with several known suboptimal features. We have a 12" woofer on a wide baffle with a 1" dome tweeter and either a 4" or 5' cone midrange. Once we get drivers selected - and it is possible we need to build a test baffle and measure some different drivers, although I am skeptical that will really be needed - we can discuss what our options are to alleviate some of these suboptimal features.
If we were targeting a more modern reference, maybe we would start with a KEF Blade cabinet.
Hifijim is currently building a speaker that started with a choice of drivers he wanted to work with...and he designs around that.
Here is the JBL L100 Classic (Not the MKii). www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/jbl-l100
Bracing...I think we can improve on this 🙂
And measurements...
Most of the elements mentioned in the post above were predetermined by post #1 of this project... Our starting point is a Classic 3-way (Monkey Coffin) - with several known suboptimal features. We have a 12" woofer on a wide baffle with a 1" dome tweeter and either a 4" or 5' cone midrange. Once we get drivers selected - and it is possible we need to build a test baffle and measure some different drivers, although I am skeptical that will really be needed - we can discuss what our options are to alleviate some of these suboptimal features.
If we were targeting a more modern reference, maybe we would start with a KEF Blade cabinet.
Hifijim is currently building a speaker that started with a choice of drivers he wanted to work with...and he designs around that.
Here is the JBL L100 Classic (Not the MKii). www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/jbl-l100
Bracing...I think we can improve on this 🙂
And measurements...
Personally, I have almost no interest in a classic monkey box speaker. For me, that shape & size just spells old & outmoded.
This doesn't change my interest in following the project through to the end. Once this design is done, I'll likely build a taller slimmer well braced modern enclosure, same VB, with minimal diffraction, around the chosen drivers & crossover that's developed. If a few tweaks are needed in the latter, so be it.
And no, I would not cross at 5khz from a 5" mid to a dome. We have better drivers in both categories now to allow better directivity match, eg lower freq x.
PS -- Recently, I listened extensively to (and measured) a well preserved JBL L112, the better version of the 100. It's bright & forward with almost no bass below 50 Hz. Flat soundstage; not much of one. Lively & dynamic. Thin high bass/lower mid. (About what I'd expect from the L100 FR posted above, and L112 is supposedly much better.) Almost any speaker I built in the last 10+ years sounds better.
This doesn't change my interest in following the project through to the end. Once this design is done, I'll likely build a taller slimmer well braced modern enclosure, same VB, with minimal diffraction, around the chosen drivers & crossover that's developed. If a few tweaks are needed in the latter, so be it.
And no, I would not cross at 5khz from a 5" mid to a dome. We have better drivers in both categories now to allow better directivity match, eg lower freq x.
PS -- Recently, I listened extensively to (and measured) a well preserved JBL L112, the better version of the 100. It's bright & forward with almost no bass below 50 Hz. Flat soundstage; not much of one. Lively & dynamic. Thin high bass/lower mid. (About what I'd expect from the L100 FR posted above, and L112 is supposedly much better.) Almost any speaker I built in the last 10+ years sounds better.
Well, on the one hand you're posting a list of midrange driver and ask us to provide a ranking of these, but we are clueless about the criteria or goals to achieve. The only guide is that the monkey coffin system should be (i) low cost and (ii) "best sounding speaker possible". Based on these rather vague information the only choice for the midrange that seems to make sense is to choose the cheapest part.
On the other hand, I guess there's a bit more than just "cheap" and "best sound" -- but I don't know what. Therefore I am clueless how to contribute to the process of designing the loudspeaker.