POOH,
The Radian xo designs were always pretty standard dreek as far as that goes. Not something they were ever very good at getting right. I think what I would have heard would have been different than you as I had them make the drivers with paper cones instead of the polypro that they typically build them with. The drivers on the coaxial were typically their smallest pancake compression drivers but with some tweaks they could be made to sound okay.
The Radian xo designs were always pretty standard dreek as far as that goes. Not something they were ever very good at getting right. I think what I would have heard would have been different than you as I had them make the drivers with paper cones instead of the polypro that they typically build them with. The drivers on the coaxial were typically their smallest pancake compression drivers but with some tweaks they could be made to sound okay.
The samples I had were paper, the compression drivers were the typical Radian so-so examples - The 12" was better than the little 8 but not by much. Yes, I agree they can sound OK but not what I want to do with my sound.
POOH,
I agree the Radian compression drivers are just so so as far as sound quality. I don't like their flat Mylar suspension design, I've always thought that has a lot to do with the over damped sound quality. I have seen a friend poke many holes in those surrounds to change the damping of the diaphragms and also drill a small hole in the center of the phase plug and stuff if with something to change the top end resonance. He was an engineer there a long time ago. He would never use the xo designs they did, his were very different than anything they ever did. If you had a paper cone coaxial I would think that was very rare unless they finally went away from the plastic cones as standard, those sounded very soft as you say.
I agree the Radian compression drivers are just so so as far as sound quality. I don't like their flat Mylar suspension design, I've always thought that has a lot to do with the over damped sound quality. I have seen a friend poke many holes in those surrounds to change the damping of the diaphragms and also drill a small hole in the center of the phase plug and stuff if with something to change the top end resonance. He was an engineer there a long time ago. He would never use the xo designs they did, his were very different than anything they ever did. If you had a paper cone coaxial I would think that was very rare unless they finally went away from the plastic cones as standard, those sounded very soft as you say.
That a bummer , I just thought of buying a pair of their 2441/2440 diaphragms thinking they will be better than chinese. Maybe you comment in context of 2 way design with CD going all the way up? I would like to use those 2440 in Edgar 340 hz horn and smooth roll off at 8-10 Khz would be Ok then ?
Original JBL dias are just too expensive to consider at the moment since I invested in another pair with truextent beryllium diaphragms and have rather mixed feelings regarding their sound. They also have mylar soft suspension and I counted on stellar lower midrange performance comparable or better than TAD 4001 , Well compared to 4001 -2441 with truextent beryllium sounds like 1" driver in lower midrange , simply anemic ...
limono,
All the Radian drivers I have had experience with were earlier models with aluminum diaphragms and ferrite magnets and all were 1" exit. I never played with any of the larger exit drivers but the actual suspensions have all been the same. Those designs all originated with the original Rankus Heinz compression drivers and the Emilar and Radians were just later knock-offs when there was a falling out of personalities. The same German tool maker made all the tooling to produce all three companies designs I think. If your only trying to go as high as 8Khz you should be okay, the top end of the Radians got a bit raged up high on all the drivers I've worked with.
All the Radian drivers I have had experience with were earlier models with aluminum diaphragms and ferrite magnets and all were 1" exit. I never played with any of the larger exit drivers but the actual suspensions have all been the same. Those designs all originated with the original Rankus Heinz compression drivers and the Emilar and Radians were just later knock-offs when there was a falling out of personalities. The same German tool maker made all the tooling to produce all three companies designs I think. If your only trying to go as high as 8Khz you should be okay, the top end of the Radians got a bit raged up high on all the drivers I've worked with.
I lived with TAD 4001 for a while and appreciate what you are saying here re the truextent 2440/41 low midrange. The TAD is really a great driver. If I were you I'd look at the original 2440/41 aluminum. I like the 2440 best - to go a step further I have a pair of the early original Community M200s that I feel is better than the TAD and JBL in the midrange, they are sweet. Low compression, ultra low distortion, no phase plug to speak of and non-metallic diaphragm. I'd sell those for less than the cost of JBL replacement phrams.
Wow ! 😱
19995 U$S
I'm sober?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jensen-Conc...&otn=4&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=4751108645652395598
Not at all. The woofer done is actually big enough to work with a low crossover point for the 1.4" compression driver. And the efficiency of the 18" is so high, you still end up with good sensitivity on open baffle. Superbly dynamic!
But like all the P.Audio coax drivers I've heard from 8" up, there is always a slight harsh edge that's hard to get rid of. It too often wants to remind you it's a PA driver. The 18" worked better than any of others, tho.
Yes, I like the Tannoys, too.
Pano,
I would guess the actual diameter to the edge of the 18" driver would be about 15" or a little bit more before the surround. So looking at it that way and if the cone shape is the waveguide that would as you say give you a pretty good loading for the compression driver to cross over to the 18" cone but I would wonder about the top end of the cone where cone cry is starting to happen. It always seems to be you have to compromise somewhere in these coaxial designs.
ps. My kid has been there in Hawaii for a bit over a week and has already started his classes, he has already been up in the copter a few times learning to hover. I was surprised they would be doing actual flight so fast. I figured a few months of class work before any flight but boy was I surprised.
I would guess the actual diameter to the edge of the 18" driver would be about 15" or a little bit more before the surround. So looking at it that way and if the cone shape is the waveguide that would as you say give you a pretty good loading for the compression driver to cross over to the 18" cone but I would wonder about the top end of the cone where cone cry is starting to happen. It always seems to be you have to compromise somewhere in these coaxial designs.
ps. My kid has been there in Hawaii for a bit over a week and has already started his classes, he has already been up in the copter a few times learning to hover. I was surprised they would be doing actual flight so fast. I figured a few months of class work before any flight but boy was I surprised.
That's good news! Get them flying right away! Is he flying at Hilo or Kona?
Yes, always chasing the cone cry vs the size of the waveguide in a coax. If you want an interesting and often frustrating crossover challenge, there you have it! 😀
Yes, always chasing the cone cry vs the size of the waveguide in a coax. If you want an interesting and often frustrating crossover challenge, there you have it! 😀
I'll have to look at the address he gave me. I thought it was Hilo but he had me send some mail and it was in Kona. I don't know how far apart they are? He said the campus is really small and is just for the aeronautics classes and helicopter training.
Yes I understand the challenge of trying to make a coaxial work, there just has to be some compromise on one or the other device, there just is no simple answer.
Yes I understand the challenge of trying to make a coaxial work, there just has to be some compromise on one or the other device, there just is no simple answer.
Thought I just post a link to this build thread of a pair of cool hyperboilc FLH with JBL 2220B. Perhaps that could be something for the 416-8B to go in under the 745NeoPbBe/AH-425...?
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Hello Nate, what exactly are your reservations?
Regards, Jack Arnott
Assistance Audio
Jack,
Just so you do know Earl does know who I am and does have my real full name. Not sure why he wrote that originally but he did. I try very hard not to be rude or condescending, not my style. I will however state my opinion and say it is that and also say what I understand when I have real information from my own work.
Just so you do know Earl does know who I am and does have my real full name. Not sure why he wrote that originally but he did. I try very hard not to be rude or condescending, not my style. I will however state my opinion and say it is that and also say what I understand when I have real information from my own work.
I though that we resolved that I was joking - since I did know your name, etc.
Wow, forget an emoticon and the whole world jumps on you. 😀😀😀
Wow, forget an emoticon and the whole world jumps on you. 😀😀😀
Sorry, I should have taken your name out. Not to you specifically. But I agree with post in that, forums I frequent that have rules to use real names only have better behavior on them. Also it gets confusing when some of the members are referred to by their real names, when there is no mention of it in their posts, and one has to be "on the inside" to know these things.
Earl,
We did but obviously Jack didn't catch that and seems to think he has to watch what he says. Or at least that is how I took his last statement, but perhaps there again it is a misinterpretation? I don't condone the rude remarks or off handed insults and I don't think that in these forums they are ever really called for. You never know when someone understands a joke or some slight of vocabulary as so many speak English as a second language. The emoticons do make it much more clear when someone is joking or pulling someone's leg but some just don't seem to want to use them no matter what. English can be bad enough between native speakers with miscommunications when you can't see someone's face and understand how they are using a comment. Something I have learned at work in the past even when sending emails back and forth, you better be real clear your intentions or someone can get there feeling all in a tizzy.
We did but obviously Jack didn't catch that and seems to think he has to watch what he says. Or at least that is how I took his last statement, but perhaps there again it is a misinterpretation? I don't condone the rude remarks or off handed insults and I don't think that in these forums they are ever really called for. You never know when someone understands a joke or some slight of vocabulary as so many speak English as a second language. The emoticons do make it much more clear when someone is joking or pulling someone's leg but some just don't seem to want to use them no matter what. English can be bad enough between native speakers with miscommunications when you can't see someone's face and understand how they are using a comment. Something I have learned at work in the past even when sending emails back and forth, you better be real clear your intentions or someone can get there feeling all in a tizzy.
Jack,
I do know some people's real names that don't use them on here for whatever reasons they choose. I have had some call me by name and I have wondered how they figured it out, but I am not trying to hide who I am. Others I communicate with on a private basis and then I always use my real name. I am talking to a few others for some real collaborative reasons that don't want that to be known for their own personal reasons. There are real professionals like Earl on this forum that just would rather stay anonymous for professional reasons but they do help others a great deal. Some just may not want someone for a professional reason or contractual reasons that they are offering any type of advise outside of what they get paid for. I can't answer for anyone else, I just started on here watching and learning and just came up with a users name, that is just how I've left it, if I change it now someone may not understand that I am the same person without having to put that in every posting. Nothing to hide here, just how it started.
I do know some people's real names that don't use them on here for whatever reasons they choose. I have had some call me by name and I have wondered how they figured it out, but I am not trying to hide who I am. Others I communicate with on a private basis and then I always use my real name. I am talking to a few others for some real collaborative reasons that don't want that to be known for their own personal reasons. There are real professionals like Earl on this forum that just would rather stay anonymous for professional reasons but they do help others a great deal. Some just may not want someone for a professional reason or contractual reasons that they are offering any type of advise outside of what they get paid for. I can't answer for anyone else, I just started on here watching and learning and just came up with a users name, that is just how I've left it, if I change it now someone may not understand that I am the same person without having to put that in every posting. Nothing to hide here, just how it started.