Against what metric? When comparing the bass content in this one directly against the other video? Because that's the only context I'm referring to.turbodawg said:
If that doesn't suffice, then how about differentiating against the first video using this video instead?
Ryan's Basement DJ setup 2 - YouTube
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Yes, we like the look of you system a lot. The main concern is if it will be loud enough for what we are looking for - I think out tops may be a little more powerful than yours. I really wish we could somehow hear these various systems side-by-side.
Thanks for posting all the details of your system. We are still considering that or something similar. The comment you made about the Infinity drivers in a previous post really peaked our interest. With our desires for dual systems that could make it more affordable.
We have our hi-pass set @45hz, our lo-pass set @100hz, both at 24db per octave LR. It sound right, but we are just getting very little sound under about 50hz. We have tried setting the hi-pass to 40hz and moderate volume, and there still isn't near the low-end we would like.
Just looking at specs and things like that, it is very hard for us to visualize what something sounds like. We have tried talking to some local DJ's, but when we tell them we are starting a DJ business, they suddenly clam up. The Guitar Center and other local music/sound shops have not been very helpful either. We want to do this right, we are just confused about what the best solution is.
Ahhhh-Haaaaahhhhhh!
I just discovered the "plot" tab in WinISD. What an amazing program. Now I can directly see how speaker size/speaker efficiency/cabinet size/cabinet tuning relate to each other. I was having a hard time visualizing that, and I was wondering how you guys were coming up with these numbers. That "plot" tab really clears up a lot of areas of confusion for me.
Don't worry though, I am not going to try to design my own cabinet. I still need lots of advice. Thanks everyone.
I just discovered the "plot" tab in WinISD. What an amazing program. Now I can directly see how speaker size/speaker efficiency/cabinet size/cabinet tuning relate to each other. I was having a hard time visualizing that, and I was wondering how you guys were coming up with these numbers. That "plot" tab really clears up a lot of areas of confusion for me.
Don't worry though, I am not going to try to design my own cabinet. I still need lots of advice. Thanks everyone.
Interesting. What makes you say that the EV's are louder than my peaveys...? I think it's likely to be the opposite.
Fair enough, and yes, it can certainly can be difficult looking at specs only when sizing something up.
If you're dead set on tapped horns, I'd give the TH112 strong consideration. I'm quite certain that one or two of those would deliver what you're after...granted, they are not a small cabinet by any stretch of the imagination...getting usable sub-bass SPL's out of a horn never is. Should be at least a couple units floating around on Solaris or SB by now.
Looks interesting, but big.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TH-112-spec-sheet11.pdf
My pair of ported 15's will very closely match one of those in output and extension, while being 30 lbs lighter and 1/3rd smaller in volume total (in two separate boxes). However, power needed is 2400w vs. 800w.
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^TH112 as In the Danley Sound Labs TH112?
Or the version that I made which is smaller and digs about as low which I call the PAL12?
Also, if it's not mentioned. High passing with LR as opposed to BW will cut some extension off of your bottom end. Could be the reason your setup sounds even more anemic in its current bandpass.
If the OP is on a tight budget, I don't think he will be able to squeeze in the price of two DSL TH112's...
Or the version that I made which is smaller and digs about as low which I call the PAL12?
Also, if it's not mentioned. High passing with LR as opposed to BW will cut some extension off of your bottom end. Could be the reason your setup sounds even more anemic in its current bandpass.
If the OP is on a tight budget, I don't think he will be able to squeeze in the price of two DSL TH112's...
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Well, I am still learning, but this is what I came across when I checked it out:
EV ELX112:
Sensitivity: 94db
Max SPL: 132db
Continuous Power: 250 watts
Woofer diameter: 12"
Electro-Voice ELX112 12-inch two-way full-range
Peavy Impulse 100
Sensitivity: 96db
Max SPL: 125db
Continuous Power: 175 watts
Woofer diameter: 10"
http://assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/impulse100.pdf
It seems to me that the EV speakers may be a little more "heavy duty" than the Peavy ones and should be able to get louder. Also, you are crossing over at 180hz, which seems pretty high. I have been told by numerous people that the lower you can crossover, they better.
Please let me know if I have misunderstood this - I am still trying to learn to compare specs and what they mean. Thanks
Wow, that looks very nice. But at this point it is bigger and more expensive that what would be ideal for us (and it weighs substantially more than I do).
Thanks for your suggestion.
We are still considering you PAL12. I love the 15" width and the low-end you seem to be able to get out of it.
Thanks for the tip on the Butterworth filter. We will try that and see if it helps. I learn a few new things everyday! Thanks for taking the time to help.
What music styles do you play?
Most EDM (say 90%) is good with 40 Hz and up, lower frequencies not needed, though in some cases it can add to the sound. The other 10% needs 30 Hz and up.
45 - 50 Hz and up type of cabinets will aid the kick but might sound "thin".
I do not think you're limited.
Best regards
Available designs:
So far
Turbo's ported Dayton 15". Small and good output. Needs more power.
My pal 12. Bigger, decent output and good efficiency.
Danley th112. Pricey. 6 pal 12's would be cheaper than two Danley th112. But no building necessary for Danley boxes. Pickup and enjoy.
Th-18. Many drivers will work from cheap to very pricey. Pretty darn good output capability. Two would be very loud with a lot of power behind them. But at the same time efficiency is great on these as well.
Art's Keystones. Same as above. Slightly larger.
Danley TH-118. Same external dims as TH-18. These again are very pricey but GREAT speakers.
Josh's big othorns Very large. Insane output possible form these. Trailer and big guys needed to lift up and down stairs.
Also, dag has a thread in this forum from a while back where he built "40hz horns". They are tapped horns loaded with lab 15 drivers. He seemed to like the results. I never heard those.
I'd say from what's here you have plenty of options.
There is also the option which Ivan beaver has recommended which is to use a small ported cabinet for say 25-60hz or so and use a TH mini 60 on up. But this requires extra amp channels and extra processing power.
So far
Turbo's ported Dayton 15". Small and good output. Needs more power.
My pal 12. Bigger, decent output and good efficiency.
Danley th112. Pricey. 6 pal 12's would be cheaper than two Danley th112. But no building necessary for Danley boxes. Pickup and enjoy.
Th-18. Many drivers will work from cheap to very pricey. Pretty darn good output capability. Two would be very loud with a lot of power behind them. But at the same time efficiency is great on these as well.
Art's Keystones. Same as above. Slightly larger.
Danley TH-118. Same external dims as TH-18. These again are very pricey but GREAT speakers.
Josh's big othorns Very large. Insane output possible form these. Trailer and big guys needed to lift up and down stairs.
Also, dag has a thread in this forum from a while back where he built "40hz horns". They are tapped horns loaded with lab 15 drivers. He seemed to like the results. I never heard those.
I'd say from what's here you have plenty of options.
There is also the option which Ivan beaver has recommended which is to use a small ported cabinet for say 25-60hz or so and use a TH mini 60 on up. But this requires extra amp channels and extra processing power.
I'd say from that tiny list you have a. Bunch of options. And the list goes on. But unless you have a bunch of building experience and some $ to burn, don't try to create a new design UNLESS any of these don't really fit your needs.
Yes, it's trick question. Take another look at Art's power vs. gain table here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...pact-tapped-horn-sub-dj-pa-7.html#post3667980
EV's peak spl figure is complete BS, likely taken at a +8db frequency peak response peak when briefly driven by 1000w. If you take the peak SPL the same way peavey does, the EV's come in at 124 db.
You can get real world estimates based on the sensitivity and rated continuous power. So for the EV's 250w input, 94 db + 24 db gain = 118 db @ 1m. The peavey's are a bit more sensitive, so on 175w in, 96 db + 22.4 db = 118.4 db @ 1m.
Check out the calculator on this website, about 3/4 of the way down:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-efficiency.htm
Granted, this is just nominal figures not taking into account power compression or many other factors, and the different ways sensitivity can be measured and reported. Nor accounting for the bracing and damping done to my peavey's, which slightly improved sensitivity. For this discussion's sake, they are virtually equal in output.
I was also able to find some pictures of the 12" in the EV, see attached below. From what I can tell, the peavey's use a custom version of the eminence delta 10", which appears beefier than the EV driver. Do not discount the plastic cabs of the peavey, which are quite solid and damp once modified.
There is no "right crossover" point. I use a 180hz lowpass on the subs because it helps with getting a strong midbass and kick drum (100-180hz). The subs themselves are clean well above 200hz. I highpass the mains using a parametric EQ, fairly low Q filter (shallow rolloff), around 100 hz, so there is plenty of overlap, which seems to work well for my system.
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At the moment we are doing college/high school age parties - all the typical stuff you would expect for that age bracket. What impresses these people most seems to be loud bass, not necessarily high-fidelity. We are definitely not limited, there are almost too many choices. We definitely want a solid 40hz, the big question is should be try to go lower.
A trick question, Aaaaahhhhh!!!!!! I had a few of those on a test today that I was ill prepared for.
Thanks for all that info and taking the time to explain it. I am starting to wonder if some of these big pro audio companies employ more marketing staff than engineering.
You mentioned in a previous post that if we wanted to save money we could use the 12" Infinity subwoofers. Would you estimate that two of those would equal one of the Dayton 15" you used in your design? Any other pros/cons from using the Infinities. My brother likes the Infinity idea as we could also use then in our cars/homes.
I just checked out you forum posts for your 4-way active PA. Techno system! Wow, those tops are space age! That is super-cool looking.
Well, let's cross the Danley's off the list for now. That is too much money at this point, and my brother has really taken to building speaker cabinets. We are still evaluating the other options.
My brother picked up a Eminence 15LF-2 real cheap earlier this week, and he is in the process of building one of the SS-15's. That will give us an idea of what a tapped horn can do, and give us something to compare our Titan39 to. If he can get it glued together tomorrow, I may go home on the weekend and check it out. It will also give us time to sit down and talk about our options for the future.
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