I wouldn't hold your breath, especially for designs with larger drivers. The enclosures are simply too large for a huge segment of the population who are convinced that since everything else can be miniaturised, speakers can too.
I have a design for some of my spare AE TD15X to be ported in a traditional 4th order alignment. Enclosure is about 180L net (going off memory) for the LF. How many people will have a 250L gross enclosure un their living room? I realise you can design with smaller drivers, but they still scale very large compared to a BT speaker many consider more than enough.
+1 that I've periodically 'harped' about for maintaining the 'scale'? 'timbre'? 'inner detail'? of the audio not just up/down, but also when listening at different SPL levels.
I do! After decades of small, boxy-sounding speakers, I figured I could do better.
As do I, and the one I mentioned is 1/2 the last speaker in dimensions; think JTR 215RT but with a Unity in the middle and AE 15s. How many people would realistically be allowed (mostly WAF) to have something like these in a shared room? Some few DIYers, but commercial speakers just as large but look prettier like PBNs would be very small sellers.
Mine were dismantled for the move and now I'm in the design stage for the replacements, but they won't be any smaller, and they were small compared to the large FLH system I had when I lived in this house before.
Don't take this as me trying to stop you from from large speakers, I absolutely encourage them, I was commenting on the point that if AJ's suggestion for larger speakers are coming back, they will still be relatively modest, maybe Klipsch Cornwall at the upper end.
I think the 15PR400s are very good drivers and they were in consideration for a huge system I'm designing for a friend, but he went with 18s as he has carte blanche in the room in his home he wants to use them in.
Brett
I agree, the 15PR400 is probably the best cheap driver available. I have been playing with it since yesterday, no doubt the 500/800Hz range is better. They do best with classical and voices but even there, the lowest freq harmonic of the string instruments is somehow missing.
What kind of 18s did your friend go with?
I agree, the 15PR400 is probably the best cheap driver available. I have been playing with it since yesterday, no doubt the 500/800Hz range is better. They do best with classical and voices but even there, the lowest freq harmonic of the string instruments is somehow missing.
What kind of 18s did your friend go with?
Putting a resistor in series with a driver can be beneficial. It creates a measure of current drive. Especially compression drivers are known to benefit from a reduction in distortion by doing this.
That's still not decided. He's heard my old system with a pair of AE TD15S/side and liked them, but I think there is a bit of 'go large or go home' as this is likely to be an end game system for him. I have a large stock of drivers that will work and he can have for free, but he wants the best drivers we can find even if I'm sure there'll be no significant audible difference. B&C, BMS, Faital, 18Sound and SB drivers are all in contention, maybe even AEs, but they're about 2x the most expensive other options. I also think he wants to hear my next system before finalising, so a secondhand based system may be in place for a year or two before we make something pretty.
im also looking for a 18" that would be great in domestic setting... aka, can sound good at low spl.
ill be interested in which 18" you ended up with
Hi, why a woofer wouldn't sound great low level? its most linear there, problems come with excursion
I maybe totally off here but I think that's where the suspension compliance comes into play. If the suspension is too rigid it may not work well at low volume. We should probably define what low volume means. For me, I would say 70-80dB. I call high volume is 85-95dB on my phone app thingy.
I think suspension gets stiffer as it is stretsched so also high excursion stuff. Also TS parameters are small signal, low level, specs so the speaker matches simulations best at low levels and starts to deviate with heat for example. So thisbfeels like a myth! 🙂 I dont know though, I'm only reasoning here.
If it is a myth I think it stems on fact that hearing is less sensitive on low freqs on low level, but thta applies to all drivers.
If it is a myth I think it stems on fact that hearing is less sensitive on low freqs on low level, but thta applies to all drivers.
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Pro woofers are not compliant enough to use them as bass drivers. I also think that for domestic use they have way too big coils. Perfect driver would be a bit like deltalite, but with underhung motor with small coil and compliant suspension - so in a way a bit like AE LO.
Hi piotr z, I haven't been into TS parameters much and would like to know why and what is the context? Trying to understand it: Compliant means loose suspension and thus lower Fs, is there other benefits?
Big voicecoils are probably for power handling increased excursion and force factor, which are not needed in home use, but they can be utilized to get similar response just use EQ and power?
So, whats the context? for home use with passive xo and class A amps? whats the bandwidth, 2 or 3-way speaker?
Big voicecoils are probably for power handling increased excursion and force factor, which are not needed in home use, but they can be utilized to get similar response just use EQ and power?
So, whats the context? for home use with passive xo and class A amps? whats the bandwidth, 2 or 3-way speaker?
Compliance works like a high pass filter for bass
https://mynewmicrophone.com/full-li...ons/#Cms:-Mechanical-Compliance-Of-Suspension
Measured in meters per Newton (m/N).
The Cms describes the driver's suspension's compliance (inverse of stiffness), which is made of the spider and surround.
This parameter can be understood as the force exerted by the mechanical suspension of the speaker.
Cms is proportional to Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas).
Speaking of resonance, the driver's compliance is also linked to the resonant frequency (Fs) of the driver. As Cms goes up, the Fs goes down.
This is because stiffer suspension allows shorter/faster vibrations, while looser suspension allows for longer/slower vibrations.
When producing a speaker driver, the Cms must be considered alongside the Qms parameter, which relates to the control of a transducer’s suspension when it reaches the resonant frequency (Fs).
Higher compliance means the driver is easier to move but will have an effect on the suspension’s ability to prevent lateral motion; absorb shock, and reduce the resonance of the driver.
https://mynewmicrophone.com/full-li...ons/#Cms:-Mechanical-Compliance-Of-Suspension
Cms: Mechanical Compliance Of Suspension
Measured in meters per Newton (m/N).
The Cms describes the driver's suspension's compliance (inverse of stiffness), which is made of the spider and surround.
This parameter can be understood as the force exerted by the mechanical suspension of the speaker.
Cms is proportional to Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas).
Speaking of resonance, the driver's compliance is also linked to the resonant frequency (Fs) of the driver. As Cms goes up, the Fs goes down.
This is because stiffer suspension allows shorter/faster vibrations, while looser suspension allows for longer/slower vibrations.
When producing a speaker driver, the Cms must be considered alongside the Qms parameter, which relates to the control of a transducer’s suspension when it reaches the resonant frequency (Fs).
Higher compliance means the driver is easier to move but will have an effect on the suspension’s ability to prevent lateral motion; absorb shock, and reduce the resonance of the driver.
Hi, thanks! Increased Fs can be lowered again adding moving mass, more wire stronger motor as I understand. Some low extension is traded off for max SPL capability. I think that for bass it mostly is about volume displacement and at home we can get quite low extension with closed boxes so while Fs is important we can get enough lows just by using big enough cone and enough power. If its pure bass application, no high mids involved, where is the difference?
Stiffer suspension and higher mass would need more power for same volume displacement ( output) at some particular frequency than lighter more compliant same size driver. So for bass both could work fine as long as system total Q fits the plan, right? If same driver was to play high mids then I would guess there would be more differences, cone resonances and rising impedance.
I was kind of after what kind of application you thought about where the more compliant is better? In low power big box no problem situation its clearly the way to go I think but is there anything else? I mean all we need from a system is low enough extension in bandwidth with enough SPL capability. Perhaps about any 15" driver was fine for bass duty in home use?
Stiffer suspension and higher mass would need more power for same volume displacement ( output) at some particular frequency than lighter more compliant same size driver. So for bass both could work fine as long as system total Q fits the plan, right? If same driver was to play high mids then I would guess there would be more differences, cone resonances and rising impedance.
I was kind of after what kind of application you thought about where the more compliant is better? In low power big box no problem situation its clearly the way to go I think but is there anything else? I mean all we need from a system is low enough extension in bandwidth with enough SPL capability. Perhaps about any 15" driver was fine for bass duty in home use?
Define 'musical' in some way that some other person can understand what you mean and how the term can consistently be applied successfully to another build. It's a meaningless horsemerde term.
In what regard? What bandwidth are you using it in? Which 12's in tis application and why?
15" for movies ..where accuracy and speed is not that important
2x 12 pretty fast drivers and lots of surface area. 2 12s will be more accurate. Of course there are many variables but If everything is equal 2 x 12 will provide better bass. U can put them in various spots too. That's what people mean by more musical..more responsive.
2x 12 pretty fast drivers and lots of surface area. 2 12s will be more accurate. Of course there are many variables but If everything is equal 2 x 12 will provide better bass. U can put them in various spots too. That's what people mean by more musical..more responsive.