i screwed up the math again. embarrassing.
correct formula: 100*150.26/150.00-100
so it's actually 0.173% more weight, not 0.01% more weight
the point stands, though - namely that increase in output is an order of magnitude higher than increase in weight
21NTLW5000 is 27 lbs versus 48 lbs for eminence 21" and 50 lbs for iPal 21
weight plates in the gym are 45 lbs. eminence and B&C are more than that.
that is not trivial weight.
i also found the 21NTLW5000 for $900 ( from Beach Audio ) versus $1,200 for Eminence and $1,500 for iPal
yes iPal and Eminence have 22 mm xmax to 17.5 mm xmax of NTLW but that's not worth extra 20 lbs and extra $300 to $600 in price.
i would consider using 21" eminence for a sub sitting on the ground or one that isn't stacked very high or moved very often, but the weight difference is real.
weight plates in the gym are 45 lbs. eminence and B&C are more than that.
that is not trivial weight.
i also found the 21NTLW5000 for $900 ( from Beach Audio ) versus $1,200 for Eminence and $1,500 for iPal
yes iPal and Eminence have 22 mm xmax to 17.5 mm xmax of NTLW but that's not worth extra 20 lbs and extra $300 to $600 in price.
i would consider using 21" eminence for a sub sitting on the ground or one that isn't stacked very high or moved very often, but the weight difference is real.
At this point, make a membrane and suspension (+ frame) and use the B&C/Powersoft "motor" to make the sub...
For a home speaker, apart from the set up during installation, after 40y of designing and building speakers, I have found driver weight irrelevant and is waaaay down on my list of considerations. For PA speakers, it's a different issue, but once placed, my (home) speakers tend not to move for years.
Most modern low frequency drivers designed for continuous high power professional applications like the B&C 18SW115 are mechanically limited by the travel of the suspension (60mm peak to peak, 30mm Xmech/Xlim), rather than the voice coil former hitting the back plate.
When its pleated surround is stretched flat, the voice coil is still left intact, if it has survived the voltage required to achieve that excursion.
The 36mm (1.4") exit BMS 4554 is larger than 1":
You are welcome, but I won't force you into analysis, that's up to you 😉
Understood.
I have fond memories of building speaker systems in high school in the '70s, and every decade since.
Access to information has become easier since then.
Best wishes with your analysis process!
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The B&C 15CXN88 is a fantastic coaxial 15” driver which I use in my Bitches Brew design, covered in other threads on this forum.
yes i know. good drivers safely land the cone using suspension rather than catastrophically destroying the former. only Kyle Keating who designed TC Sounds subwoofers believes destroying voice coils is the better approach. I tried to explain to him that it is absurd almost 20 years ago but he refused to acknowledge that his designs suck and more recently banned me from DataBass because he is insecure about his positions.
the folks over at AVS sadly are also not bright enough to grasp the obvious here. they want to believe they can have something for nothing. that they can just wind longer voice coils and use Sinbosen amps and that gear blowing up is just fact or life and not a result of garbage engineering.
my point rather that to avoid the VC hitting the back plate suspension travel has to be reduced, which means that even with the same Xmax the ultimate performance of the driver will be lower if there is not enough mechanical clearance. also suspension nonlinearity contributes to distortion as much as motor nonlinearity so in a subwoofer you want suspension with a lot of travel ( but you want even more clearance ).
clearance > suspension travel > xmax
of course only xmax is listed in specs most of the time so that's what fools focus on then wonder why their sub blew up ...
oh snap. i only looked at their neodymium drivers because i generally only look at neodymium drivers. the ferrite magnet adds extra length to the throat so the same driver that is 1" in neodymium version ends up being 1.4" in ferrite version with the extra throat expansion. it's not a true 1.4" driver though because the same exact diaphragm is also used in 1" drivers.
Any size diaphragm truly can be used with any throat size, the BMS 4554 happens to use a 1.75" (44.4mm) annular ring diaphragm in that driver.
If it were a 1.75" dome diaphragm, it would be capable of far more clean output at a lower frequency, but not everybody wants or needs over 120dB at 1kHz.
the point is BMS doesn't have anything that can go head to head with the D2, even if JBL borrowed a few ideas from BMS.
Do you happen to know who made/makes the 2406H, 2407H and 2408H ?😉
Depends on the application really.
Im not sure how you differentiate between PA speaker and Line array as they serve the same defined purpose more or less.
But not quite accurate.
For example :
https://jblpro.com/en/products/vtx-f12
https://jblpro.com/en/products/vtx-f15
https://jblpro.com/en/products/vtx-f35-95
When it comes to the arrays they use 3xD2430 /3xD2415 in multiple entry waveguides on some.
Some still use 243x family drivers.
The D2415 is also in the 4349 fx.
D2's in M2, 4367 also etc.
The most recent is the D2423K which is used in a few smaller arrays, 1" exit, special design. I guess that is what the original DA2420 concept driver turned into.
That should of been the end the discussion lol... wut?
Thats foolish to think... if that could have ever been the case, the companies would have never left the country in the first place.
They left... to make more money
If there is no incentive to manufacture else where, they will move their factories back to the USA for sake of making more money....
They will charge no less than they have chosen to charge in the past, and definitely will continue to raise prices as already planned, plus adding on any additional cost, as a result of losses occurred from not being able to benefit from their last positions.
Non of the corporations care about anything other than making money... You just can't relate, because you don't fully understand how greedy they are... Its greedy people competition with other greedy people, there are only greedy people at the top, and the only way to get to the top, is to be greedier than the competition, which means greedy and unethical business practices that result in frustration of customers like the OP who are slowly waking up to the truth.... Old people know what I am talking about.
Every new generation comes along, the norm is established, they figure out that the norm is actually evil, then they die... repeat. The corporation lives on.
Wait till you figure out that Monopolies never went away lol! thats why you have this ->
Relationships, bloodlines, and gatekeeping.... Open up Sweetwater and look at what the studio monitors are offering, as in who is offering what or not offering what... you'll see the same thing... The stuff that actually make sense are sold at premium though the information to do build them is free. They use fancy unneeded materials (focal) to make feel better about letting that money go.... it gives you one more thing to brag about in you ******* matches.... No one needs a diamond woofer. A basic well built large paper woofer of high efficiency will outperform a low efficiency ruby encrusted small woofer. Apex products are priced to be sold to the wealthiest people, and do not reflect manufacturing or research cost....
Welcome to the 💩 show
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