Well, that's how it is. Waiting to your point about device after some warming.
Just little bit expensive than one cheeseburger in Mac solution, let it be stock.
Just little bit expensive than one cheeseburger in Mac solution, let it be stock.
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I haven't said anything about how that SMSL clock circuit sounds but I see it as a questionable design decision which is quite likely based on it not being clearly visible in ASR jitter measurements.
But there are members here who vouch for expensive clocks and vendors (such as you) who sell them. If you (or your customers) believe that ultra-low close-in phase noise clock matters shouldn't you provide the device for comparison?
Probably both Acko clocks/dac and bohrok2610 dacs are or would be far more expensive to buy than what jean-paul is looking for. For the purposes of making this point, I would consider bohrok2610 dacs to be expensive since they cost around 350 or 450 Euros to make. If sold at retail then the selling price is usually 3 to 5 times the build cost of one unit. For low production volume hi-fi gear, the retail markup may have to be 6x or more. As a very rough estimate, if we take a modest markup of 4 times for a dac costing 350 Euros to build, the buyer's cost might be 1,400 Euros. Then I would ask how many people reading this thread are willing to spend that much money on a dac.
Next it comes to considering Acko products. Let's just say anyone willing and able to spend $680 for only one clock is probably not in the low cost dac market.
Regarding SMSL, that's another matter. They are in the business of getting good rankings at ASR, while being manufacturable at low cost providing sales volumes can be kept high. They are not in the business of competing for best subjective sound, nor for outstanding stereo imaging. What ASR decides to measure determines what you will get.
Next it comes to considering Acko products. Let's just say anyone willing and able to spend $680 for only one clock is probably not in the low cost dac market.
Regarding SMSL, that's another matter. They are in the business of getting good rankings at ASR, while being manufacturable at low cost providing sales volumes can be kept high. They are not in the business of competing for best subjective sound, nor for outstanding stereo imaging. What ASR decides to measure determines what you will get.
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Guys is as always:
-How well or bad is implemented the clock.
-The rest of the audio system: DAC, preamps (line & phono), amp/s, loudspeakers/headphones, interconnects,etc.
-Room acoustics if you don't own headphones.
-SQ of recordings.
You have to view all these separate devices/things like a whole, if some or only one device falls you never know if you go ahead to have better SQ...and I assure you isn't an easy task. What who said was easy!!!
-How well or bad is implemented the clock.
-The rest of the audio system: DAC, preamps (line & phono), amp/s, loudspeakers/headphones, interconnects,etc.
-Room acoustics if you don't own headphones.
-SQ of recordings.
You have to view all these separate devices/things like a whole, if some or only one device falls you never know if you go ahead to have better SQ...and I assure you isn't an easy task. What who said was easy!!!
Those are with Mouser/Digikey single quantity prices for components with VAT included (25.5% in Finland). Actual costs even for hobbyist are lower. For manufacturers cost of parts would be much less. And Chinese manufacturers do not have selling prices of 3 to 5 times of build cost.
I have no doubt that a Chinese manufacturer could sell devices such as mine for much less than 450 EUR and still make a profit.
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How many hobbyists reading this thread have a reflow oven. So what about the cost for that. Or if pre-soldered boards were sold, how would that affect the price. What would it take in the way of potential profits to induce the designer to go into business. As can be seen there are many unanswered questions. However, for the purposes of this thread, could it be of any practical use to let jean-paul listen to a bohrok2610 dac so he can know what a good low-ish cost yet better than ultra-cheap dac offers. I don't see any point in him auditioning an Acko dac which is far, far too expensive to make to be of practical use here.
It is enough 30-50USD soldering station 2 in 1 with hot air gun to make your own DAC or make any changes to existing one. It would be nice to have a microscope also. Or a friend with soldering station and microscope 🙂.
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That is right. Especially if you know that I paid 100 Euro for a new D6s. That is the ghost of this thread I think. Get more than you would expect for the money. I don't care for DIY or non DIY but for results.
Not that I can not afford it but it is the challenge to find good stuff that functions and sounds OK and then just use it when it turns out to be good. I think it was Nelson Pass that said “It is entertainment not dialysis”.
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Good purchase for this price. Interesting, are there a members here who have already ordered SMSL M20?
I'm only here for DIY and results.
From Forum Rules (emphasis mine): diyAudio is a place for all members of the DIY audio community to learn, share knowledge, and enjoy interacting with others interested in the design and construction of audio components.
Next time when you really don't want to know what's wrong with your purchase, don't ask 😉
I did not ask what you try to explain and even if I did the reactions are often out of tune. You are not the best reader it seems or you like to read what you want to read. You have now made the same comment twice but thanks for reminding me. Very likely there is nothing wrong with my purchase as SMSL make fine products that actually can be obtained. Furthermore I don’t care what you think of it, I did not even ask you anything.
As you could have guessed I am interested in the design and construction of audio devices. By anyone and any company. Except by strebers, I don’t like strebers.
As you could have guessed I am interested in the design and construction of audio devices. By anyone and any company. Except by strebers, I don’t like strebers.
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I have already offered JP a free 9039q2m board when ready so he doesn’t need to tinker with some cheap AliEx ones with fake parts. Maybe not necessary now since JP has gone for a finished product instead. Since you already got a finished unit… I was thinking it will be better. it could also be a good promotion for your impressive design. Who else have listened to your product?
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I'm a hobbyist, why would I need promotion for my design? I make stuff for family & friends free of charge, others have to pay 3 to 5 times build cost. But for Jean-Paul I can give a special discount: only 999 EUR and as gesture of goodwill I'll throw in also a small bag of Haribo Goldbären.
@jean-paul, I am just curious about your use case with the d6s dac. You already have the EverSolo A6 that already has an internal dac that is good enough?
Any experience with this kind of Dac ?
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005008236083358.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2fra
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005008236083358.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2fra
Anyhow.....
Back to cheap Chinese DACs.
Yesterday we had the WiiM Ultra DAC hooked up in the HT in 2ch mode. It's set up with fixed volume into a 2ch AUX input of the multi channel preamp ( not processor ).
WiiM -> Parasound P7 -> Nuforce MCA20 -> PSB Gold-I
So, at one point I sat down to listen to a song I know quite well, over Tidal, Phil Collins Against All Odds.
The first I noticed was the huge wide soundstage, not all that deep, but almost atmospheric. But the as the song got louder the treble got congested and the voice did get an edge to it. The bass was quite deep and the drum kit was fast with really good transients. However, I don't know if this was the amp or the DAC.
I guess it is a damn good system for movies... I could upgrade it by putting a better class AB amp ( I got a CJ MF2100 in the closet ) for the L/R speakers and add a DAC to the back of the WiiM. But wife really wants me to keep the HT simple ( Actually, I hid the Tablos and Roku and ethernet switch, etc ) and that big gold amp will be hard to hide.
The WiiM Ultra's DAC is OK. I think it will do great for 99.98 % of the population. Indeed, yesterday, the TV was turned off most of the day, with my wife just playing music. She went on a 1980s tear that was awesome. Some of those songs I haven't heard for a lot time...
Duran Duran anyone?
So the little box is making itself very useful. Not bad for an inexpensive Chinese DAC.
I guess to really get a feel for its DAC, I ought to try running its DAC in the other systems where I put as a bridge.... I could easily reach around and reroute the RCA cables.
Back to cheap Chinese DACs.
Yesterday we had the WiiM Ultra DAC hooked up in the HT in 2ch mode. It's set up with fixed volume into a 2ch AUX input of the multi channel preamp ( not processor ).
WiiM -> Parasound P7 -> Nuforce MCA20 -> PSB Gold-I
So, at one point I sat down to listen to a song I know quite well, over Tidal, Phil Collins Against All Odds.
The first I noticed was the huge wide soundstage, not all that deep, but almost atmospheric. But the as the song got louder the treble got congested and the voice did get an edge to it. The bass was quite deep and the drum kit was fast with really good transients. However, I don't know if this was the amp or the DAC.
I guess it is a damn good system for movies... I could upgrade it by putting a better class AB amp ( I got a CJ MF2100 in the closet ) for the L/R speakers and add a DAC to the back of the WiiM. But wife really wants me to keep the HT simple ( Actually, I hid the Tablos and Roku and ethernet switch, etc ) and that big gold amp will be hard to hide.
The WiiM Ultra's DAC is OK. I think it will do great for 99.98 % of the population. Indeed, yesterday, the TV was turned off most of the day, with my wife just playing music. She went on a 1980s tear that was awesome. Some of those songs I haven't heard for a lot time...
Duran Duran anyone?
So the little box is making itself very useful. Not bad for an inexpensive Chinese DAC.
I guess to really get a feel for its DAC, I ought to try running its DAC in the other systems where I put as a bridge.... I could easily reach around and reroute the RCA cables.