Is there a record for how many posts about total BS has ever been posted in one thread? I mean, the wild justifications for problems that don't exist. I can only guess it is by people who paid a lot of money for cables and have to justify it to themselves. (or spouse) How many are the same ones who fell for the bi-wire BS, a plot to sell twice as much cable?
Now I did spend a little more than 35cents on my cables. I found some in tan that hide better along the baseboard. Cost me almost 45 cents a foot. My 5-way posts provide a very secure connection, so no $500 banana plugs either.
chdsl, your sentiment is correct, but an "audio signal" is an alternating current. And if you have a giant big sub, (500W) it may be as high "intensity" as the mains. Electrons have no idea what they are being used for. They only want to find the next hole when they are pushed.
Now I did spend a little more than 35cents on my cables. I found some in tan that hide better along the baseboard. Cost me almost 45 cents a foot. My 5-way posts provide a very secure connection, so no $500 banana plugs either.
chdsl, your sentiment is correct, but an "audio signal" is an alternating current. And if you have a giant big sub, (500W) it may be as high "intensity" as the mains. Electrons have no idea what they are being used for. They only want to find the next hole when they are pushed.
tvrgeek,
I used to believe just like you. I used #12 zip cord and kept the wires no longer than 3-1/2 or 4 feet long. Someone came over left some other cables with me, and suggested I try them. I was expecting no difference. How could there be any? There couldn't, right?
Okay. I tried the other cables then I started thinking very hard about what just happened.
EDIT: By the way, I know there are people who will not believe what I just said is what actually happened. They will stay that way. Doesn't matter. Some people are not willing to take a chance at finding out they were wrong.
I used to believe just like you. I used #12 zip cord and kept the wires no longer than 3-1/2 or 4 feet long. Someone came over left some other cables with me, and suggested I try them. I was expecting no difference. How could there be any? There couldn't, right?
Okay. I tried the other cables then I started thinking very hard about what just happened.
EDIT: By the way, I know there are people who will not believe what I just said is what actually happened. They will stay that way. Doesn't matter. Some people are not willing to take a chance at finding out they were wrong.
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Well, one can use 3.5mm shielded copper wires for 500W sub, instead of throwing money in the drain. Maybe buy some flowers for the wife.
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It boggles the mind how to achieve temporal coherence between two cell phones such that subtraction of a full bandwidth audio signal pair could produce valid results.
A good pair of IA's would have been more reasonable.
Does anybody know what cell phone sampling rates are? This question came up when I was looking into the Cuba Embassy cell phone recording. IOW, when a cell phone attempts to sample a signal above it's nyquist, the recording is harmonic splash.
Jn
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The picture you provide is unshielded, high strandcount zip cable with PVC insulation.
The price you quote seems low given copper pricing, but I haven't looked recently. What you can find online now is amazing.
From a long term reliability point, that insulation outgasses chlorine so will eventually turn the copper green. Meaning replace it every couple of years.
Jn
The price you quote seems low given copper pricing, but I haven't looked recently. What you can find online now is amazing.
From a long term reliability point, that insulation outgasses chlorine so will eventually turn the copper green. Meaning replace it every couple of years.
Jn
Which part? That you heard a difference, or that you "thought very hard"?
Badaboom....
Jn
Was it "It started like this: Jam, my high end audio designer friend came over one day and pulled out some XLR cables. He said to try them out and see if I notice if they sound different at all from the cables I normally was using. I didn't expect anything audible so I asked, what if I don't hear any difference? He said, then you need to get your ears checked. Haha, I thought, very funny - NOT.
Dac was down that day for some modding, but a few days later I had it working again and decided to try Jam's cables and get it over with. I connected them between the XLR outputs on AK4499 eval board and the Neurochrome HP-1 headphone amp input.
Wow! Everything sounded better, less distorted, and the difference was easy to hear! I was basically stunned, never expected it."?
Why should any sane person take a chance on report coming from an internet stranger's subjective listening impression?
Actually, in the case I was talking about it was speaker cables that were tried, not XLR. However, there was a difference to me with XLR too. In the latter case I made up several cables with different wire, all the same length, and all the same type Neutrik connectors to try because I was having trouble understanding the cause.
As far as other people go they can find out for themselves if they think differences can be audible. There are diy cable projects out on the internet people can experiment with if they want.
As far as other people go they can find out for themselves if they think differences can be audible. There are diy cable projects out on the internet people can experiment with if they want.
If you say so...
Marked CCA
At 4$/10m, I can replace them every few months. Ice cream is more expensive.
By the way, some cables I have are more than 10 years old, none had turned green. None had got cracked.
But, if you want to waste money, I can't stop you.
CCA stands for copper clad aluminum. Only worry would be you might have to bump up the AWG a bit for the lower conductivity of the core.
Edit: a warning to anybody who does motion control stuff like CNC routers or 3D printers. Do not even think of putting CCA into a drag chain (sometimes called cable chain) as aluminum does not flex very well, it will fatigue much faster than copper. I do not know if CCA can be drag chain rated. Many DIYers upgrade their 3D printers like the Ender 3's with cable chains, I would hate to see anybody have a fire because of a poor choice in wire.
I am glad you mentioned CCA, thank you.
The cables I use are over 25 years old, and many are from the late 70's. If any degrade, I'll take them out of service. Till then, they stay. At work, I had to specify zero halogen cabling both for long term reliability due to chlorine outgassing as well as for elimination of hydrochloric acid should any cable catch fire.
The price you mentioned was interesting, it seemed low for pure copper wire. But the picture does not show shielding as mentioned.
Last Home Depot run I bought 250 feet romex 14-2, very painful the cost of copper now.
Jn
Edit: a warning to anybody who does motion control stuff like CNC routers or 3D printers. Do not even think of putting CCA into a drag chain (sometimes called cable chain) as aluminum does not flex very well, it will fatigue much faster than copper. I do not know if CCA can be drag chain rated. Many DIYers upgrade their 3D printers like the Ender 3's with cable chains, I would hate to see anybody have a fire because of a poor choice in wire.
I am glad you mentioned CCA, thank you.
The cables I use are over 25 years old, and many are from the late 70's. If any degrade, I'll take them out of service. Till then, they stay. At work, I had to specify zero halogen cabling both for long term reliability due to chlorine outgassing as well as for elimination of hydrochloric acid should any cable catch fire.
The price you mentioned was interesting, it seemed low for pure copper wire. But the picture does not show shielding as mentioned.
Last Home Depot run I bought 250 feet romex 14-2, very painful the cost of copper now.
Jn
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JNeutron,
Would you expand on the "25 ohms" recommendation?
Is it instructive to look at an impedance sweep for the loudspeaker which one is making cables for?
I attached a random collection of Z sweeps from Stereophile for discussion...
Attachments
I chose it as a middle of the road solution. With normal zip, the RFZ is about 120 to 150 ohms, higher is typical of landscaping light wire with really thick insulation spacing the conductors.
High RFZ wire with a 4 ohm speaker makes for long settling times, 10 to 20 microseconds possible.. Low RFZ cable has too much capacitance for when the load lets go at high frequencies.
By using 4 lighter gauge zips independently twisted, you reduce the settling times of the wire/load combination without worrying about excessive capacitance. Trying to go much lower takes too much wire, and I don't think there's much to be gained.
4 twisted pairs is more practical than all those cat5e 24 pair solutions, and no stability worries.
edit: BTW, my choice of 25 ohm RFZ has nothing to do with frequency response, but everything to do with soundstage imaging.
To test if your system (and you) are sensitive to this effect, do a simpe test:
1. wire both speakers to one amp channel using #12awg zip.
2. With both speakers close to you, not loud, listen and visualize the sound image in front of you. It should all be exactly in the center...all frequencies, all sounds.
3. Take one of the zips, and split the two conductors away from each other, making the conductor spacing at least two inches apart.
4. Repeat listening of the image.
If the image is still totally centered such that none of the content seems to have drifted from other part of the content, then you have absolutely no cable Z/imaging/settling stuff to worry about. go back to normal wires and spend money on some good wine.
If however, the soundstage image is somehow different, lopsided, whatever, that is an AHA moment.
jn
High RFZ wire with a 4 ohm speaker makes for long settling times, 10 to 20 microseconds possible.. Low RFZ cable has too much capacitance for when the load lets go at high frequencies.
By using 4 lighter gauge zips independently twisted, you reduce the settling times of the wire/load combination without worrying about excessive capacitance. Trying to go much lower takes too much wire, and I don't think there's much to be gained.
4 twisted pairs is more practical than all those cat5e 24 pair solutions, and no stability worries.
edit: BTW, my choice of 25 ohm RFZ has nothing to do with frequency response, but everything to do with soundstage imaging.
To test if your system (and you) are sensitive to this effect, do a simpe test:
1. wire both speakers to one amp channel using #12awg zip.
2. With both speakers close to you, not loud, listen and visualize the sound image in front of you. It should all be exactly in the center...all frequencies, all sounds.
3. Take one of the zips, and split the two conductors away from each other, making the conductor spacing at least two inches apart.
4. Repeat listening of the image.
If the image is still totally centered such that none of the content seems to have drifted from other part of the content, then you have absolutely no cable Z/imaging/settling stuff to worry about. go back to normal wires and spend money on some good wine.
If however, the soundstage image is somehow different, lopsided, whatever, that is an AHA moment.
jn
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I was looking at the so-called speaker cables in the net, and got that image from a seller's web page.
What I use is black TLYp 2x2.5mm. The price today is at 1.86$/m (equivalent). These TYLp cables can be used connect speakers. There are also 2x3.5mm, but too thick. There's also TLgYp 2x2,5mm, but the cover is semi transparent, but I like to use black cables. Same price. These are pure copper woven cables (cores twisted from soft copper wires) from a well known manufacturer. I have a 200W amp today, but I never use it more than 15%. I agree that cables crack in time, but it is easy to replace them, without a heartache.
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