have had little time to continue work on these.
But some updates.
I was able to carve and chamfer out the mid range mounting holes to the extent possible. Not very tidy but should help.
Picture of original holes included for comparison.
But some updates.
I was able to carve and chamfer out the mid range mounting holes to the extent possible. Not very tidy but should help.
Picture of original holes included for comparison.
Attachments
The enclosures also have 8mm felt lining now. Some blocks of dense rubber foam placed to break the parallel surfaces and also slightly reduce the volume as Rick had suggested. Finally the stuffing goes back in.
So the current direction on this project:
I have returned the ATI amplifiers.
One Hypex PC2.400 DSP plate amp is going to be employed to handle the low end on each speaker.
Basically the woofer passive XO goes away and 2 DSP channels in the Hypex plate amp is used to drive the XXLS sub and the 2x W22s now connected in parallel.
The mid/high XO remains passive. DSP will be used to blend the W22 LP with the W15 HP.
I have returned the ATI amplifiers.
One Hypex PC2.400 DSP plate amp is going to be employed to handle the low end on each speaker.
Basically the woofer passive XO goes away and 2 DSP channels in the Hypex plate amp is used to drive the XXLS sub and the 2x W22s now connected in parallel.
The mid/high XO remains passive. DSP will be used to blend the W22 LP with the W15 HP.
Thread is pretty much dead, but will keep posting my slow updates.
Here is the speaker with new tweeters.
Drivers are wired out (without XO) to dedicated binding posts for direct drive with the Hypex Amps.
Also note the cabinet refinish to taper the baffle edges.
Just jumped in and picked up some basic woodworking know how
8CH ES9018 DAC is under development.
DSP XO will be on an Laptop.
Here is the speaker with new tweeters.
Drivers are wired out (without XO) to dedicated binding posts for direct drive with the Hypex Amps.
Also note the cabinet refinish to taper the baffle edges.
Just jumped in and picked up some basic woodworking know how
8CH ES9018 DAC is under development.
DSP XO will be on an Laptop.
Attachments
Good to see progress and a very flexible setup albeit at what looks to be very high expense.
Has the new tweeter (what is it?) lead to a noticeably cleaner sound at higher SPLs? What crossover frequency and slopes did you end up with?
Now you are starting to pick up some woodworking experience are you considering new cabinets?
Is the laptop dedicated to running the crossover? I fairly swiftly abandoned using a large laptop that was also used for other things to control music.
Andy,
Yes the expense was a conscious decision. No regrets about the Hypex amps.Though i could have stayed with a pro audio interface instead of the DAC.
The tweeter is a T25CF001 originally recommended by 5th Element.
Still need to complete the XOs and tweaking. But Here is the XO, again based on discussion with 5th element
mid - Tweeter : 2KHz LR4
parallel W22 woofers - Mid : 300Hz LR2
Woofers - 12" sub : 60Hz LR2
12" side sub and parallel W22 woofers are shelved to overlap over the 60Hz-100Hz region
Whats your concern here?
Yes the expense was a conscious decision. No regrets about the Hypex amps.Though i could have stayed with a pro audio interface instead of the DAC.
The tweeter is a T25CF001 originally recommended by 5th Element.
Still need to complete the XOs and tweaking. But Here is the XO, again based on discussion with 5th element
mid - Tweeter : 2KHz LR4
parallel W22 woofers - Mid : 300Hz LR2
Woofers - 12" sub : 60Hz LR2
12" side sub and parallel W22 woofers are shelved to overlap over the 60Hz-100Hz region
No plans for a new cabinet. I will stick with this even if not ideal.
Whats your concern here?
Yes an old laptop with tweaked down win7 is dedicated for this. Eventually will replace with a fanless low power HTPC
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How is the impedance peak of bare drivers measured in their enclosures related to XO options available when working with it?
Nothing as strong as a concern more an opportunity to make modest improvements if you have developed an interest in woodworking. The subwoofers would be better in their own cabinets and sited where they will do most good for the room response rather than fixed to a position below the main speakers. Removing the subwoofer volume would drop the woofers enabling the midrange to be better positioned below the tweeter and closer to the lower woofer. It would also enable a bunch of other options concerning woofer heights, baffle widths, baffle radii, cabinet construction, etc...
good points.
A TMWW 3W with curved baffles and 2 standalone subwoofer for the room would make for a great project.
But i'm unlikely to find time for that in the short term.
Incidentally Lojzek mentioned something similar
A TMWW 3W with curved baffles and 2 standalone subwoofer for the room would make for a great project.
But i'm unlikely to find time for that in the short term.
Incidentally Lojzek mentioned something similar
Btw the exiting cabinet appears to have been meticulously finished. Its a pity that this was done with no regard to even basic loudspeaker cabinet design guidelines
1. Positioning of drivers
2. Baffles width
3. Baffle shape for diffraction
4. Spacing of drivers
5. chamfering to allow rear breathing room
1. Positioning of drivers
2. Baffles width
3. Baffle shape for diffraction
4. Spacing of drivers
5. chamfering to allow rear breathing room
Hi
Just saw this thread and I can sympathise with your dilemma.
I have just completed a 4 way project using Seas Excel and Vifa components, in some ways similar to your.
T29CF002 crossed at 2000 Hz LR48
W18NX001 crossed at 246 Hz LR48 and 2000 Hz LR48. The mid enclosure is 8.6 l sealed, stuffed with wool.
W22NY001 Crossed at 60 Hz LR12 and 246 Hz at LR48. The woofer enclosure is 16 l sealed, stuffed with wool. Previous incarnation had Dayton RS225-8 but that combination was just awful.
NE265W-08 X 2 in parallel crossed at 80 Hz LR1. The sub woofer enclosure is 55 l sealed, only vertical column behind the MTW enclosure(s) is tightly stuffed with wool. The main cavity between 265W's was initially stuffed as well but this did not work out so I have removed the wool from this area and now it is not stuffed at all.
All significant surfaces are internally damped with butyl based 4 mm thick sheets.
This is an active system using miniDP 2X8. The amplifiers are three channel HPA-nxV203 (TMW) + single channel HPA-NXV200L R4 (Sub) for each speaker.
I tried LT for the subs but it got too complicated. Not much filtering was required after all, a shelf at 50 Hz seems all was required in my room to bring it down to 35 Hz.
The sound, good enough for me (for now, dual 12" subs may happen in future). I can enjoy the beauty of the sound in addition to the usual program. Certainly seems to handle the natural instruments such as kick drum and double bass well. Seem s to handle the electronic music lows but with this one who knows what the original was really like.
The problem (or blessing) is that I do not have anything to compare them with.
Regards
Just saw this thread and I can sympathise with your dilemma.
I have just completed a 4 way project using Seas Excel and Vifa components, in some ways similar to your.
T29CF002 crossed at 2000 Hz LR48
W18NX001 crossed at 246 Hz LR48 and 2000 Hz LR48. The mid enclosure is 8.6 l sealed, stuffed with wool.
W22NY001 Crossed at 60 Hz LR12 and 246 Hz at LR48. The woofer enclosure is 16 l sealed, stuffed with wool. Previous incarnation had Dayton RS225-8 but that combination was just awful.
NE265W-08 X 2 in parallel crossed at 80 Hz LR1. The sub woofer enclosure is 55 l sealed, only vertical column behind the MTW enclosure(s) is tightly stuffed with wool. The main cavity between 265W's was initially stuffed as well but this did not work out so I have removed the wool from this area and now it is not stuffed at all.
All significant surfaces are internally damped with butyl based 4 mm thick sheets.
This is an active system using miniDP 2X8. The amplifiers are three channel HPA-nxV203 (TMW) + single channel HPA-NXV200L R4 (Sub) for each speaker.
I tried LT for the subs but it got too complicated. Not much filtering was required after all, a shelf at 50 Hz seems all was required in my room to bring it down to 35 Hz.
The sound, good enough for me (for now, dual 12" subs may happen in future). I can enjoy the beauty of the sound in addition to the usual program. Certainly seems to handle the natural instruments such as kick drum and double bass well. Seem s to handle the electronic music lows but with this one who knows what the original was really like.
The problem (or blessing) is that I do not have anything to compare them with.
Regards
Attachments
![20151222_213913[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/476/476308-3b2985f52cd19218c34e2ba5815eb08c.jpg?hash=OymF9SzRkh)
mronjan
I think the problem with the MTW layout is the spacing between the M and W drivers. Its likely a bigger problem in my speaker, because the distance between the M and the lower woofer is almost 21".
just for the sake of discussion, if the speaker were a 3W TMWW, augmented with 2 x 12" standalone subwoofers, will the TMWW tower be ported or sealed?
Can some one point me to some simple reads/simulator on loudspeaker enclosures?
Can some one point me to some simple reads/simulator on loudspeaker enclosures?
When designing my system I could not do the analytical assessment of this issue and chose to look at other designs instead.
Some of Troels Gravesen's models that are recognised as successful designs MW centre to centre spacings vs crossover frequency are as follows:
Janzen Diamond mKII - 44 cm for 200 Hz
Ellam Flex 3W - 36.4 cm for 400 Hz
3 way Classic - 21.5 cm for 450 (ish) Hz
Regards
Just made parameter measurement of the drivers in the enclosure
Is this variability in the left and right tweeter params normal and acceptable
Left Right
R(e) 5.598 4.583
F(s) 1020 1164
Q(ts) 0.4719 0.5468
Q(es) 1.052 1.152
Q(ms) 0.8558 1.041
L(e) 0.05811 0.05944
Is this variability in the left and right tweeter params normal and acceptable
Left Right
R(e) 5.598 4.583
F(s) 1020 1164
Q(ts) 0.4719 0.5468
Q(es) 1.052 1.152
Q(ms) 0.8558 1.041
L(e) 0.05811 0.05944
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