The idea is perfect But i have already learned many things like
1) it is much more difficult to design a 3 way than a 2 way speaker. I was underestimating this And when one can do without the lowest Hz a good 2 way could be more than enough especially when space is not big
2) the idea of using cones (woofer and midrange) made with the same material sounds very sound to me I read often that cone material leaves a signature on sound Better not mix plastic and paper and metal Better to stick with a same material
One speaker that i had and of which i saved drivers and xovers is a Tannoy 609 These were 8" DC with plastic cones ... the cheaper drivers They can be found very cheap on the used market
The box was very light and i love heavy cabinets But i remember that i liked their sound a lot even with that debatable cabinet
I had to move from abroad and so a ditched the cabinets
i still have the parts in a storage
After all a new cabinet and some rework of the xover could be the best solution
You talk about absolute satisfaction ... does this exist ? for instance i listened to the famous Rogers ls 3/5a and i was not impressed The sound was not dynamic enough ... like listening to a radio The lower part was completely absent ... on orchestra pieces it was a joke
One sound impressed me a lot indeed A pair of very big vintage 15" Tannoy DC (i do not remember if they were the Red, Gold or other) in a custom cabinet designed and made by an italian artisan I guess he rebuilt also the xovers The listening room was 4 times my place
I had that wall of sound sensation and that was amazing on some tracks Very impressed
I think i will go the Tannoy route. I have to find the specs of the driver.
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you will like the d2008.....never like proac but this is 3way , SS have update the d2010 model last year, btw I have buyed in 1988 and still run that's something ,on new there is Sb acoustics ones not bad the 21
If I was moving in a not definitive place I would go for a 2ways that are acceptable in bass term an move only with the drivers and give up just the enclosure... or second hand.
This makes sense for someone with difficult tastes https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera if you move from place to place with no room.
This makes sense for someone with difficult tastes https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera if you move from place to place with no room.
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that's nice I have the 15w with the 9800 great combo , a lot better then 9500
add the acamini is perfect ....
Hi this is exactly my point But i have to reiterate that i have been shocked about the influence of the cabinet on the sound of a speaker especially in the bass
I have an old pair of dynaudio msp 110 ... i was so frustrated by their "sluggish" bass that i offered them to a friend for some experiment
(then i discovered that the problem is the woofer ... its Qts is almost 1 ... high moving mass and weak magnet is not a good recipe for a nice bass)
He had at hand some lead foils .. the ones used in the cars as dampers ? he glued them to the panels without any rationale
Clearly the modified speakers are very heavy Then we put on some tracks with lot of bass content It seems like the mod added Hz in the bass
The bass, the piano, the pipe organ ... were all finally realistic Then i noticed that all more expensive speakers are also very heavy
On this basis my initial idea considering that i had no access to tools for woodworking to cannibalize very good cabinets with broken or missing drivers
And viceversa of course I was just wondering if to try the 3 way route ... but it really too complex for me So i am looking for a 2 way solution with decent bass A friend of mine as a pair of small Rogers ls3/5 he loves For me are also nice but unacceptably limited in range and dynamics
Maybe with a sub ... but they are also quite low efficiency and this is a problem for me
Alu drome detailed but sweet really good to me I'm sensible to harsh.... a top SS tw troels opinion https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2904-980000.pdf
that's wrong conclusion qts 1 is perfect for OpenBaffle speaker ,just change the box size, have you try the variovent ?
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Variovent.htm
https://www.hifi-wiki.de/index.php/Dynaudio_Variovent
I like open baffle exclusively for mid and high frequencies like in the old DQ10 ...
https://www.bluemoonhouse-sophos.co...h-und-mitteltoner-ruckansicht_226554-1200.jpg
that was my very 1st experience with an amazing 3D soundstage
I like the woofer in a box That woofer provoked me a nervous breakdown I hate it
It is slow to start and slow to stop ... a mess I love extremely low Qts woofers like some Scanspeak for instance
They can sound dry but they are very true to the signal They do not round edges
And they cost a fortune ... usually
Ok delete what i said ... i do not like woofers in OB Show me just one professional subwoofer OB There is no just one in the all world
And I guess for a reason
The very best subwoofers ever are all in a box The big woofers are like beasts ... and beasts must stay in a cage if you want to control them
Above 200Hz we can discuss ...
ginetto,
your conclusions are so wrong, no one cares to correct you. You try to make life easy by putting your singular findings and second hand blabla in large drawers. The world does not work like that.
Even the best brands do perfect speaker chassis that may sound awful if they are put in the wrong cabinet, position, frequency range or matched with an idiots x-over.
You did not react on the idea of learning a measuring tool. Are you really sure you do not need it, because you already know all and anything?
Your knowledge is years away from being able to design a usable speaker by your self if you stick to that illusion.
You are like an young Italian that finally got his drivers license. The same second he got the paper in his pocket, he is is sure he only needs the right car and will be Formula 1 champion at the end of the year. Translate this to speaker design if you can.
You got an old Fiat Panda with a broken gearbox, gifted from your uncle and are sure you are already a champion race driver.
Go for a proven DIYS combination, stick to the plan and get your first real impression of a quality speaker. Then maybe, after hearing your own reverence speaker for a while, try to build something that sounds similar, from your garbage speakers and parts. That way you may find back on the solid ground of reality.
Sorry, but this the best advice I can give you.
your conclusions are so wrong, no one cares to correct you. You try to make life easy by putting your singular findings and second hand blabla in large drawers. The world does not work like that.
Even the best brands do perfect speaker chassis that may sound awful if they are put in the wrong cabinet, position, frequency range or matched with an idiots x-over.
You did not react on the idea of learning a measuring tool. Are you really sure you do not need it, because you already know all and anything?
Your knowledge is years away from being able to design a usable speaker by your self if you stick to that illusion.
You are like an young Italian that finally got his drivers license. The same second he got the paper in his pocket, he is is sure he only needs the right car and will be Formula 1 champion at the end of the year. Translate this to speaker design if you can.
You got an old Fiat Panda with a broken gearbox, gifted from your uncle and are sure you are already a champion race driver.
Go for a proven DIYS combination, stick to the plan and get your first real impression of a quality speaker. Then maybe, after hearing your own reverence speaker for a while, try to build something that sounds similar, from your garbage speakers and parts. That way you may find back on the solid ground of reality.
Sorry, but this the best advice I can give you.
OB bass doesn't work well in a small listening room. You need lots of cone surface area for decently low cutoff. It can get expensive and complex to predict what it will do or sound like. A sealed box with a large driver is always going to sound better than a small driver in a ported box with a higher Fs. The further down you get with Fb, the cleaner the bass, mainly being above the phase shift area with the majority of bass response. A smaller box with higher Fb will put the resonance and phase shift right in the middle of the bass response, which will be hard to predict how it interacts with the room and will hurt the impulse response ie muddy or boomy bass.
If you want OB bass done well, a SLOB arrangement works best, but you have to treat it as a subwoofer. That's mainly because it can't be crossed too high due to slot and cavity resonances from the driver arrangement.
I don't believe in scolding someone based on their lack of knowledge and personal opinion formed from their own practical experience and journey. If you know what you want and like, it shouldn't be hard to get the results you're after with help of others on this forum. Its ok to disagree with others who try to push their own opinions and believe they're better than the person they're trying to advise.
I'd rather listen and dispense advice based on what I believe is a suitable solution for their situation, not mine. Its ok to liek and dislike something, but don't bash it because its not something you personally don't like or agree with. Belittling someone who comes across as inexperienced is juvenile and tells me they're dispensing information based on ego rather than generosity.
If you want OB bass done well, a SLOB arrangement works best, but you have to treat it as a subwoofer. That's mainly because it can't be crossed too high due to slot and cavity resonances from the driver arrangement.
I don't believe in scolding someone based on their lack of knowledge and personal opinion formed from their own practical experience and journey. If you know what you want and like, it shouldn't be hard to get the results you're after with help of others on this forum. Its ok to disagree with others who try to push their own opinions and believe they're better than the person they're trying to advise.
I'd rather listen and dispense advice based on what I believe is a suitable solution for their situation, not mine. Its ok to liek and dislike something, but don't bash it because its not something you personally don't like or agree with. Belittling someone who comes across as inexperienced is juvenile and tells me they're dispensing information based on ego rather than generosity.
Then why i dont see ANY OB subwoofer around ? and i am referring to the very top products available There must be a reason Or two
Thank you very much indeed. This confirms my feeling Again my ideal speaker has a separate very rigid and very heavy cabinet for the big woofer ONLY
Above that many different solution can be used The old sub + satellite concep
Because you never looked. Try to make search for 'open baffle sub' and you will see dozens of posts. Or try to just search 'open baffle' and you will see hundreds of posts.
There is quite a number of commercial speakers completely open baffle. There threads about it. Even the gallery thread.
But you seems to only repeat your bs.
This thread is hard to read because what you write makes very little sense.
I started with a very simple question and then i was dragged in extremely interesting discussions And i thank you all for that sincerely
My initial question was ... does it exist a reason to prefer for a 3 way speaker a cone or a dome midrange ?
A NO would have stopped any discussion Anyway my 1st conclusion, that i hope it is not wrong, is that there is not a specific reason to prefer one solution to the other And maybe a better approach is to study drivers first At ATC they have made a success story about their dome midrange
why ... do you prefer to complicate things ? just asking Have you heard of the KISS principle ?
My ideal solution is the sub + satellite concept where the bigger woofer is enclosed in a separate cabinet and mechanically decoupled from the satellite
I understand that the frequencies below lets say 200Hz are the most critical for vibration control And i also like very rigid and very heavy cabinets
And i notice that the very extreme subs aroung have ALL these characteristics .... they are very rigid and extremely heavy (My guess is for vibration damping) To increase stiffness bracing can be used and for increase mass the best would be lead
I am sure 120% about this No doubts Even if these conclusions are wrong i am confident anyway
Hi there is no a single subwoofer manufacturer that proposes a OB subwoofer (i am looking at brands like Rel, Velodyne, Krell, etc. )
I am talking of sub with acceptable dimension of course for a medium size room
anything (almost) can be done But there are more efficient ways to do things and with great results